I think you are right about this. The other thing is that most players don't care about the BGS, or even know it exists. So one player who knows what to do can counter the effects of several "normal" players.
A Guide to Minor Factions and the Background Sim
- Thread starter Walt Kerman
- Start date
I think you are right about this. The other thing is that most players don't care about the BGS, or even know it exists. So one player who knows what to do can counter the effects of several "normal" players.
I don't like raw value.
I think that per transaction definitely levels the playing field. Probably too much.
I always assumed that the smart folks would use the log of value and some coefficient.
So that there is some decent trade off between one CMDR in a Cutter and one CMDR in a Cobra.
To my mind it should be effort vs effort.
I get that a Cutter indicates a LOT of prior effort, but not necessarily effort for this particular operation.
I don't like the idea that a horde of small CMDRs can be held off by one big bloke.
Balance should take into account both effort (hours) and value. (assuming same activity)
The raw transaction count is open to gaming.
The raw value favours the big old b'tards.
Gear one to the other by means of the log of the value, and you might get a reflection of genuine effort.
I think that per transaction definitely levels the playing field. Probably too much.
I always assumed that the smart folks would use the log of value and some coefficient.
So that there is some decent trade off between one CMDR in a Cutter and one CMDR in a Cobra.
To my mind it should be effort vs effort.
I get that a Cutter indicates a LOT of prior effort, but not necessarily effort for this particular operation.
I don't like the idea that a horde of small CMDRs can be held off by one big bloke.
Balance should take into account both effort (hours) and value. (assuming same activity)
The raw transaction count is open to gaming.
The raw value favours the big old b'tards.
Gear one to the other by means of the log of the value, and you might get a reflection of genuine effort.
Half way detailed economic and population models would solve so many problems...
To my mind it should be about the plausible effects of one's actions.
A single cutter should have more economic impact through trade than twenty sidewinders because it can carry more than twenty times the cargo.
To my mind it should be about the plausible effects of one's actions.
A single cutter should have more economic impact through trade than twenty sidewinders because it can carry more than twenty times the cargo.
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Deleted member 38366
D
I got around to perform a single, last BGS Test in the Colonia area.
Original Test purpose was a different one (checking out a massive Anomaly I managed to trigger 3 Days ago), so I thought I combine earning my Credits with such a last Test run.
Since the Colonia Region BGS is often described as "different / weird / quirky", maybe someone has a use for it, even if it wasn't a zero-traffic stand-alone Benchmark.
The low-traffic System not controlled by a PMF yet allowed me to use that opportunity without screwing anyone up.
(my focus here is now Exploration/Volcanism and earning Credits along the way, so I'll perform no more dedicated BGS tests and "go where the fun or the Credits are"; I guess the System will soon be taken over by a PMF anyway)
Original Test purpose was a different one (checking out a massive Anomaly I managed to trigger 3 Days ago), so I thought I combine earning my Credits with such a last Test run.
Since the Colonia Region BGS is often described as "different / weird / quirky", maybe someone has a use for it, even if it wasn't a zero-traffic stand-alone Benchmark.
The low-traffic System not controlled by a PMF yet allowed me to use that opportunity without screwing anyone up.
(my focus here is now Exploration/Volcanism and earning Credits along the way, so I'll perform no more dedicated BGS tests and "go where the fun or the Credits are"; I guess the System will soon be taken over by a PMF anyway)
11 Aug 2017 Test, Benzaiten / Bisley Landing, 450.000 Population
Faction : Colonia Tourism & Co, Faction State : Boom
Credits Start : 171.813.818
Credits End : 201.524.268
Total Credits earned : 29.710.450
Note : NPC Crew payroll = 1x 10%
-------------------------------------------
Influence Distribution 11 Aug
63.8% Colonia Tourism & Co
10.5% Colonia Co-operative
09.7% Colonia Council
08.0% Sollaro Refinery Operations
08.0% Lobos De Loki
Other Traffic of early 11 Aug (own Ships removed from Stats)
2x Python
5x AspX
Test Inputs given :
18:52:07 ++INF Mining Mission, +1.293.104 Cr
18:52:27 ++INF Mining Mission, +1.839.656 Cr
18:52:47 ++INF Mining Mission, +1.047.440 Cr
18:53:05 ++INF Mining Mission, +528.608 Cr
18:53:13 ++INF Mining Mission, +528.608 Cr
18:53:21 ++INF Mining Mission, +254.768 Cr
18:53:35 ++INF Mining Mission, +254.768 Cr
18:53:43 ++INF Mining Mission, +346.048 Cr
18:53:50 +INF Donation Mission, -125.000 Cr
18:53:58 +INF Donation Mission, -50.000 Cr
18:54:27 ++INF Mining Mission, +236.512 Cr
18:54:51 ++INF Mining Mission, +312.992 Cr
18:55:06 Sold Gold (Mining), +247.428 Cr
18:55:16 Sold Palladium (Mining), +894.272 Cr
18:55:16 Sold Silver (Mining), +69.515 Cr
18:55:36 Sold Painite (Mining), +1.128.660 Cr
18:55:43 Sold Low Temperature Diamonds (Mining), +69.373 Cr
18:55:53 Sold Platinum (Mining), +1.258.061 Cr
18:56:06 Sold Bertrandite (Mining), +7.275 Cr
18:56:15 Sold Gallite (Mining), +8.592 Cr
18:56:23 Sold Indite (Mining), +6.245 Cr
18:56:40 Handed in Bounty Voucher, +5.690.984Cr
18:57:32 Exploration Data sale Start
18:02:54 Exploration Data sale End (sold System by System to check 1st Discoveries), +15.401.145Cr
19:03:12 Sold Osmium (Mining), +36.825 Cr
19:03:20 Sold Praseodymium (Mining), +26.385 Cr
19:03:29 Sold Samarium (Mining), +24.320 Cr
19:03:37 Sold Bromellite (Mining), +37.191 Cr
20:00:33 +INF Courier Mission, +30.600 Cr
20:01:05 +INF Courier Mission, +45.900 Cr
20:09:50 Sold Silver (Trade), +75.816 Cr
20:10:28 Sold Modular Terminals (MSN Reward), +3.956 Cr.
20:34:00 Handed in Bounty Voucher, +45.165 Cr
20:49:26 Handed in Bounty Voucher, +157.372 Cr
21:00:07 1x Passenger Mission (+Inf), 1.643.200 Cr
21:17:48 1x Passenger Mission (+Inf), 948.000 Cr
21:55:40 Handed in Bounty Voucher, +169.754 Cr
22:17:30 Handed in Bounty Voucher, +316.514 Cr
Input Summary
10 Mining MSNs (++INF)
2 Donation MSNs (+INF)
2 Courier MSNs (+INF)
2 VIP Passenger MSNs (+INF)
5 Bounty Vouchers (6.379.789 Cr)
15 Individual Trades (3.893.914 Cr)
Exploration Data Sale (15.401.145 Cr)
----------------
Influence Results 12 Aug :
68.9% (+5.1%) Colonia Tourism & Co
08.7% (-1.8%) Colonia Co-operative
08.5% (-1.2%) Colonia Council
07.0% (-1.0%) Sollaro Refinery Operations
06.9% (-1.1%) Lobos De Loki
Other Traffic of early 12 Aug (own Ships removed from Stats)
1x AspX
4x Python
1x Type-9
1x Imperial Courier
1x Anaconda
Faction : Colonia Tourism & Co, Faction State : Boom
Credits Start : 171.813.818
Credits End : 201.524.268
Total Credits earned : 29.710.450
Note : NPC Crew payroll = 1x 10%
-------------------------------------------
Influence Distribution 11 Aug
63.8% Colonia Tourism & Co
10.5% Colonia Co-operative
09.7% Colonia Council
08.0% Sollaro Refinery Operations
08.0% Lobos De Loki
Other Traffic of early 11 Aug (own Ships removed from Stats)
2x Python
5x AspX
Test Inputs given :
18:52:07 ++INF Mining Mission, +1.293.104 Cr
18:52:27 ++INF Mining Mission, +1.839.656 Cr
18:52:47 ++INF Mining Mission, +1.047.440 Cr
18:53:05 ++INF Mining Mission, +528.608 Cr
18:53:13 ++INF Mining Mission, +528.608 Cr
18:53:21 ++INF Mining Mission, +254.768 Cr
18:53:35 ++INF Mining Mission, +254.768 Cr
18:53:43 ++INF Mining Mission, +346.048 Cr
18:53:50 +INF Donation Mission, -125.000 Cr
18:53:58 +INF Donation Mission, -50.000 Cr
18:54:27 ++INF Mining Mission, +236.512 Cr
18:54:51 ++INF Mining Mission, +312.992 Cr
18:55:06 Sold Gold (Mining), +247.428 Cr
18:55:16 Sold Palladium (Mining), +894.272 Cr
18:55:16 Sold Silver (Mining), +69.515 Cr
18:55:36 Sold Painite (Mining), +1.128.660 Cr
18:55:43 Sold Low Temperature Diamonds (Mining), +69.373 Cr
18:55:53 Sold Platinum (Mining), +1.258.061 Cr
18:56:06 Sold Bertrandite (Mining), +7.275 Cr
18:56:15 Sold Gallite (Mining), +8.592 Cr
18:56:23 Sold Indite (Mining), +6.245 Cr
18:56:40 Handed in Bounty Voucher, +5.690.984Cr
18:57:32 Exploration Data sale Start
18:02:54 Exploration Data sale End (sold System by System to check 1st Discoveries), +15.401.145Cr
19:03:12 Sold Osmium (Mining), +36.825 Cr
19:03:20 Sold Praseodymium (Mining), +26.385 Cr
19:03:29 Sold Samarium (Mining), +24.320 Cr
19:03:37 Sold Bromellite (Mining), +37.191 Cr
20:00:33 +INF Courier Mission, +30.600 Cr
20:01:05 +INF Courier Mission, +45.900 Cr
20:09:50 Sold Silver (Trade), +75.816 Cr
20:10:28 Sold Modular Terminals (MSN Reward), +3.956 Cr.
20:34:00 Handed in Bounty Voucher, +45.165 Cr
20:49:26 Handed in Bounty Voucher, +157.372 Cr
21:00:07 1x Passenger Mission (+Inf), 1.643.200 Cr
21:17:48 1x Passenger Mission (+Inf), 948.000 Cr
21:55:40 Handed in Bounty Voucher, +169.754 Cr
22:17:30 Handed in Bounty Voucher, +316.514 Cr
Input Summary
10 Mining MSNs (++INF)
2 Donation MSNs (+INF)
2 Courier MSNs (+INF)
2 VIP Passenger MSNs (+INF)
5 Bounty Vouchers (6.379.789 Cr)
15 Individual Trades (3.893.914 Cr)
Exploration Data Sale (15.401.145 Cr)
----------------
Influence Results 12 Aug :
68.9% (+5.1%) Colonia Tourism & Co
08.7% (-1.8%) Colonia Co-operative
08.5% (-1.2%) Colonia Council
07.0% (-1.0%) Sollaro Refinery Operations
06.9% (-1.1%) Lobos De Loki
Other Traffic of early 12 Aug (own Ships removed from Stats)
1x AspX
4x Python
1x Type-9
1x Imperial Courier
1x Anaconda
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The sale of certain goods do have an impact on the state effect for the market's controlling faction.
Selling foodstuffs will reduce famine, and I think selling excessive wastes will increase it.
I have not done too much on influencing famine, but I have instigated civil unrest by selling battle weapons on black markets.
Because of that, i am unsure if regular sales of wastes will cause famine, or if you need to make use of black markets to cause it. Perhaps it needs to be a negative influence effect (loss making sales or BMs) to cause those states.
In terms of influence I think it's the same as all smuggling.
But as noted - there are State contributions also.
I thought it was towards Outbreak but maybe I'm thinking of BioWaste.
The link between biowaste and outbreaks has already been widely debunked.
o7,
is it possible for a "pirate wing" by killing cmdrs, npc and security to change the state of a system?
Or is it just a "role play" with the minor factions by pushing / punish them?
thx in advance
is it possible for a "pirate wing" by killing cmdrs, npc and security to change the state of a system?
Or is it just a "role play" with the minor factions by pushing / punish them?
thx in advance
- killing cmdrs has close to no effect on minor factions (basically only that of a crime, if they are clean - very minor. for bgs work pvp is just wasted effort)
- killing npc of a minor faction reduces their influence, and adds to the civil unrest and to the lockdown bucket
- killing clean npc has the same effect as above, but hurts the controlling faction as well by crime, and can fill the lockdown and civil unrest bucket of both the target faction as the controlling faction.
- killing system security is for above reasons one of the more easy way to reduce a controlling factions influence, and to trigger lockdown and/or civil unrest.
all of the above can be countered by bounty transactions.
_trent_
Volunteer Moderator
Where are you finding toxic waste? Planet surface? USS?
I honestly can't remember ever seeing any.
While I am here: Is it still the case that smuggling during conflicts has no effect on influence, but can still affect the state buckets.
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Correct, but the ratio is off the charts. To fly to a RES site, kill a wanted NPC, fly back to the Station and cash in doesn't compare to the amount of Security ship kills a Wing of 4 decently engineered Players can muster if they know what they're doing.
If for example 1 bounty voucher turn in would equal 10-20 security ship kills, we'd be talking. But in this special instance, 1 killed Security ship = 1 transaction and you don't need to go anywhere to cash this in, but can go on and on and on and on without any fear of getting apprehended for it (specially if you're working out of PC, XBOX or PS4 only and your opposition is mainly concentrated on another platform).
That get's fixed and we'll see some serious improvement to the BGS imho.
Here's hoping with all the info and data which was compiled and supplied by the Hutton Truckers and other Wings we see some positive change with 3.0 coming around.
Edit:
You can work against the Lockdown coming down on you if you muster a big enough counter via Missions / Passenger missions and bounty vouchers, but to fight the actual % loss you'd have to have some exceptional amounts of Exploration data stored somewhere to even come close to repel the above mentioned assault. And be able to use it in the first place (if one gets attacked whilst being in a War / Civil War, good riddance is all I say).
And I doubt many (small / medium) Wings can do so.
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Any way for to negatively influence a MF in other Systems but the one the actual armed conflict takes place in still works.
Specially if you're a Democracy, Anarchy, Cooperative and whomever else creates Black Markets. The sheer inconsistency of FD with those is mindboggling.
For during a Lockdown State, Black Markets are supposed to be shut down, along with Commodities, Outfitting and Crew Lounge (not to mention that Missions / Passenger missions get completely removed as well).
Funny fact: some are, some aren't. And if you happen to have a functional BM on one of your Stations during a Lockdown or during a War / Civil War...well, you can imagine the rest.
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USS. But not exactly common, I have seen it only once.
that's not correct (if it ever was). and the relative numbers have been adjusted in 2.2., making bounties more powerfull, and system security killings less.
the general imbalance is imho down to no cap on negative influence actions.
_trent_
Volunteer Moderator
Anyone else seeing big swings in the mini-ticks after the main one around midnight UTC?
At around midnight UTC, we went from yesterday's total of 27.5% to 27.9% in one of our systems. At around 02:00UTC we jumped to 30.5% (in a fairly big pop system) In another we were at 9.1% after the tick but around 02:00 UTC that had jumped to 20.2% (it's a tiny population.)
Just curious.
At around midnight UTC, we went from yesterday's total of 27.5% to 27.9% in one of our systems. At around 02:00UTC we jumped to 30.5% (in a fairly big pop system) In another we were at 9.1% after the tick but around 02:00 UTC that had jumped to 20.2% (it's a tiny population.)
Just curious.
how do you monitor those systems? if ross/eddb.io that most likely the effect of people visiting the systems before restarting the client.