A Message To Elite Dangerous Developers

Your length of time in the game has no bearing on the validity of your opinion or critique.

I disagree. People can have their opinions but they don't have the same importance/truth as a more informed/experienced/expert commentary. Now read my words, I said "opinion", not facts. Any person could quote any info source no matter how little they know of the topic and have the same truth compared to any other person.
 
Git Gud with anything you want. People have also told me to "git gud" in PvP etc. but I didn't care because PvP isn't my goal. I think what I have become good at is exploration. What are your goals in the game?

The game has many flaws but that doesn't mean it is NMS at release date. You can find constructive gameplay if you search for it. If you can't find it then wait for some time until you do.

My goal is the same, exploration, and maybe some passenger missions. But then those aspects are some of what I criticize the most. I'll be trying out some different ways of playing this weekend to see if I can have fun doing that anyway.

And no, it most definitely ISN'T NMS at release.

... In fact, it's not even NMS 1 year later either. I bought that recently because it was on sale, and just had a patch... Oh my god... It has a few good things, but ultimately, has 10x less good qualities about it than ED, and 10x more of the bad qualities. Even less to do, etc. I mean, I guess it has base construction and space legs... But not a whole lot to do for either of those things. And don't even start me on performance. You know I had to disable hyper-threading and download a way out of date graphics driver just to get it working?... ON AN i7-6700, and 1070... Jesus... ED is definitely the better of the two. In fact, it's better than many.

Like I said, you criticize the things you care about... I haven't even bothered with the NMS forums, because frankly, I'm just not invested in the game enough to care what happens to it...
 
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Deleted member 115407

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Meh, just git gud. Now seriously, all of us had to go through this stage and now that I'm a capable elite, I can say that it was fun to be rather weak.

Back in that time when the bubble seemed so huge, when all I had access to were G1 mods from The Dweller. Those were the days, man.

I was fighting my Eagle, like, 80Ly from Eravate, and it felt like a million. All of the discovery and learning was awesome.

OP should cherish this time.
 
Back in that time when the bubble seemed so huge, when all I had access to were G1 mods from The Dweller. Those were the days, man.

I was fighting my Eagle, like, 80Ly from Eravate, and it felt like a million. All of the discovery and learning was awesome.

OP should cherish this time.

The good old times :)
 
As I stated an un-provable boast with an attempt to shift the focus to a possible imaginary friend to make it seem less like a boast. Congratulations on proving me correct. Excellent job.

It always seems to happen, when you point out the flaws in the game and the flaws of some of its players. Its not surprising at this point. Even if this were true even though it sounds dubious to me, do you think that you or your friend would have done as well solo?

Also had you read the whole post the problem was not with the fact that he lost the ship without rebuy saved up. The OP is posting about the fact that the way to progress or do the things he and others would like to do will require massive amounts of time and punishment to accomplish. This again is an undisputed fact.

And that IS the charm in the game. It is tough (until you get experienced) and I wish it was as challenging as it was when I first started playing. If you like easy games then you have plenty of choices since those are very common.
 
Wait, only 900 cr/t round trip? And you think 1200/ton is a good route?

Dear me, what are you doing wrong? I can easily find 3500/t+ routes, not using community goals and not using Imperial Slaves (my personal roleplay reasons), and also find upwards of 4500/t if you are into the short-term-opportunities of Medical Diagnostic Equipment. (Short term, because there's nowhere in the galaxy with a high enough stock of the things.)

Also, the reason I use third party tools for trade is because the ingame ones aren't just useless, they're not even just bad, they're actually completely misleading and have never, in my experience, accurately indicated the presence of a profitable trade route. It's one of the things I imagine Fdev will be focusing on post-2.4.

I haven't thought of that in a while. True, trading needs some care as well.
 
After reading the 2.4 beta thread it would appear that they are taking all the danger out of exploration. Getting pretty fed up with it all to be honest.

On the bright side my avatar can have long hair whilst the game isn't running.

IMO the only places in exploration were you can run into trouble is in the neutron stars/white dwarfs systems and in very low density areas, both unaffected by the 2.4 model changes.
 
OP, maybe you could try playing FFE for a few hours. http://www.jades.org/ffe.htm It had the autopilot which also included fast docking. When I first played Elite Dangerous, I was surprised at the changes with no autopilot and always popping out near the primary star of a system. Then I realized it was on purpose by fdev. I think their reasoning is due to ED being made a hybrid MMO game for many types of players. The missions seem to be repetitively similar because the mission generating system functions on it's own seemingly designed to be able to work with the sheer scale of the millions of star systems. For more ongoing and concurrent content ED would probably need to be more of a real MMO structure where like other MMO's there are usually teams of in-gameplay designers and moderators which probably could only be supported if ED went to a monthly subscription with centralized servers instead of the current p2p instancing system. I kind of read and skimmed through the long post of this thread where your interest in the game is certainly recognized. I can't say I agree with much of the ideas as the game has been quite entertaining enough for me on its on terms so far. Then again I'm more on the 'purist/whiteknight' fandom side since Elite 2&3 of the franchise and I still of the opinion ED is amazingly groundbreaking and bar setting at the gist of it all. I would agree with the idea of having some mechanic in the future with npc crew perhaps able to perform some function of auto piloting if they'll allow it. Well it's maybe good that you're a relatively newer player because then you won't have to wait so long since Fdev are going to make improvements and changes to the core game with announcements scheduled in their con at the start of October..

Thank's, I'll check it out. I don't usually go for older games (muh resolution), but since good space sims aren't very common, I tend to be more willing where they are concerned. Also, I've noticed some people drawing comparisons to the older games this one is based on. This is good, it's good to look at precedent, and see what worked best and what didn't.

I do hope they don't do subscription... I mean... I'd probably pay it, now that I'm in, but it's one of the reasons why I avoided Eve for so long. I can see they need funding for continued development, as it's probably why they charged for horizons like it's separate. If they kept doing that, I know I'd keep getting the DLC. It's one of the few games that does DLC right. Personally however, I think the best thing this game could do is try to appeal to the largest audience possible. If this game had AAA levels of players populating it, they certainly wouldn't lack funding for a while. Now... that being said, there's a good way to go about it and a bad way to go about it. The bad way is to become an unfocused mess because of conflicts between different kinds of content, or the lack of content in certain areas. The good way is to come up with balanced content that provides players of most schools of thought options to tailor their experience. The space sim players get their space sim, the PVP crowd get their MMO, the economic tycoons get their economy sim, role players etc. This would not only benefit people from a specific camp, but those who like many types of games, and could take advantage of all of it.

If you feel that it's just not the same as the older games (which were probably dedicated space sims), that's a sentiment I can fully understand. Sometimes I feel that way about Halo. Having a prior context builds a certain expectation, one that gets disappointed when you realize the truth that it isn't exactly what the series used to be. Whenever this happens in gaming, I can never really tell which is better, take the beloved series in a fresh direction, or start anew.
 
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Hello commander Ultra,

I do respect explorers, I kind of admire their endurance - scoop, honk, point to next system, press J... repeated thousands and thousands of times...

But this certainly is one of the tedious and boring tasks for me... I would much rather do other things ingame, while autopilot or rather my NPC copilot does this task for me... Read galnet? Plan the route? Study the sysmap if there is anything interesting (during scooping and basic navigation being performed by the NPC copilot / autopilot)? Pick your thing...

I want to be COMMANDER, not just a pilot...

NPCs can be quite capable in combat allready... When you are in a SLF and your NPC crew is at the helm, they are quite good at killing opponents...
If you compare this to the jumping argument against autopilot, why hasnt SLF ruined the gameplay for all combat oriented players?


As many people like to say (and I really do not like this silly argument): if you dont like it, you dont have to use the autopilot function ;-)

Karlos

True but it would end the achievement of going to far away places. People get proud of travelling really long distances because it takes a lot of time and patience. The key problem is that exploration is boring in its traveling mechanics and that should be adressed but adding an autopilot will just make things worse.
 
I think a lot of the ideas listed are pretty good. I have also critized ED for the time consuming and entirely pointless hour long flights for no mission reward. Auto-pilot would be a lifesaver for this, at least I could play mobile games, or DS or go clean the kitchen. I also agree it's more realistic to have auto-pilot. The idea of your hired crew being able to perform navigation for you is also realistic and a great idea I hadn't considered. Come on, Captain Picard didn't fly the ship 24/7. As far as modules go though, while I agree a 1E/1A for autopilot alone would be awesome, I also think they need to make some combo components. E.X. A deluxe all in one navigation and scanner package, includes surface scanning, stellar scanning, and auto-pilot but takes up a 3 slot, add docking computer for a 4 slot or something. Realistic wise I don't think the Anaconda/Cutter/Corvette would NOT have these items and taking up 3 or 4 class 3 slots for 1A items is a bit ridiculous. Obviously putting an all-in-one in your cobra would be a bit much.

I like the being able to rebuy a ship after working up to the rebuy cost, though I do think this should carry a RL timer. 30 days is plenty after that the insurance company isn't going to hold forever.

I have a busy life as well and RL timers have never bothered me, I think you may be missing a few things. Your 18ly asp is just too small for those missions your looking at. I can't stand to fly anything under 22LY, there is a HUGE difference in under 20 and +20 jump range for some reason. For 25k LY I wouldn't take anything under 40LY jump range at that point the timer isn't that rough. I do think though passengers should pay as long as you reach the final destination on time, maybe a seperate timer for the return?

Edit - Your beluga by the way is more like sight seeing within the bubble, the Orca is better designed for those long range passenger missions. I do like the idea of shopping and food optional cabins to seperate as well as the setting your route and trying to get tickets. That would be an amazing improvement to passenger stuff.

Multiplayer since you haven't played I will fill you in on this aspect. Your wrong, while the community is very helpful and friendly, there are TONS of griefers. GC's are overloaded with them killing people for no reason other than to kill them. You don't even get a good reward for killing other players unlike say Albion where you get to loot the other persons items. Nope, in ED you blow people up just to be a . And sadly you can go to twitch and watch people that jump around killing others and laughing about it for no reason other than because they can. Not to mention the with Harry Potter in the escort Salome event. Wasted 5 hours on a Saturday to have it ruined by one jerk. Nah, Multiplayer in ED is useless, you can't even interact with players enough to make the risk vs reward worthwhile. No player owned stations, no player run shops. If a griefer interdicts you, your on your own. Other players won't help, police don't show up and you have no chance. They are in specialized combat ships outfitted only for one purpose, making sure you don't escape and you die. Your ship won't be outfitted for pure PVP and thus you can't even fight back. Just avoid it. Find a good community with a private server.

One of my first experiences in this game was getting my brand new cobra and trying to do a CG. I was killed trying to haul christmas presents by a diamondback explorer and an Anaconda. Their third showed up as I was dieing. Interdicting and blowing up a new player for 4 presents when your flying 100 mil ships. They blew me up a second time when I tried to take a more roundabout path to the station at that point I was forced to quit the CG as I couldn't afford another round of presents or rebuy. THAT is what ED multiplayer is like.

Good luck getting change, it's much needed. I just returned from a long break to try and participate in a CG about hunting pirates to find 0 res sites in the system, waited a week and now a CG about combat bonds when the 2 factions are under a ceasefire. So guess I'll go play other games and see if the next CG is actually any good.
 
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Hat: You made some good points but i don't think you understand the game properly yet.
The flying without rebuy thing is a very basic.

If we had an autopilot there should be a penalty or some risk to it being used.
I would lose the feeling of the vastness of our galaxy if it was instantaneous.
 
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Except that outside of combat, it has utterly FAILED at being that game.

Press J. Watch load screen. Honk. Turn, accelerate, wait. Repeat.

That's not flying, it's spectating. So why not automate a hefty part of the more tedious sections?

You are still driving. When you drive a car it is about as monotonous.
 
Credit where due, it's readable, if you have the time. There's just a lot of it. The capitalization, punctuation, and spelling seem fine. It's divided into paragraphs, with colored text breaking things up. There's sections.

I think I'll just wait for the movie. :eek:
 
My goal is the same, exploration, and maybe some passenger missions. But then those aspects are some of what I criticize the most. I'll be trying out some different ways of playing this weekend to see if I can have fun doing that anyway.

<snip>

Coincidentially, those are the two non-racing aspects of the game I enjoy so far.

On the passenger side of things, I specialize in three to four hop tourist missions, primarily because they're a lot of fun. Since I'm very much a role player, I immediately decided to treat it like a business, dubbed it "Stevenson's Whirlwind Adventures," and had a blast. I had been pretty much flying a Cobra Mk III or a Hauler since the game released, had recently bought an Asp Explorer, and was concentrating on making money to buy a Type-7 Transporter, because I needed a large ship to participate in the latest Buckyball Race.

(I also think it says a lot about my personality it took me two years to decide that an Asp Explorer was finally worth purchasing, but five days to raise all the money I needed to buy and kit out a Type-7 transporter, and the only reason I wanted it was to race it. ;) )

I also tend to pay attention to details like who the passenger is, and after one run, I couldn't resist posting this little drabble.

The last mission I took was a little too topical not to share while I'm waiting for my lunch to cook.
smile.png



"Good morning! Welcome to Stevenson Whirlwind Adventures! My name his Hans. How may we serve you today?"

Action starlet Abby Wong and her entourage looked around the nicely appointed office, located in the habitable ring of Mackenzie Relay station, before focusing her attention on the young man at the receptionist's desk, whose flowing tunic was open from neck to navel, showing off what many in the industry called the Emerald Physique. "Why thank you Hans," she said, pleased to see the young man was keeping things professional, and not gushing over her like a caffeinated fanboy. "I understand you offer custom made tours?"

"Yes, ma'am! Our adventures are custom tailored based on the demands of our customers, unlike a Beluga liner luxury tour. The owner is a member of the Pilot's Federation, and will fly you to your destinations personally aboard her Asp Explorer, Emerald's Dawn. The first class passenger lounge includes telepresence virtual reality headsets, and for a little bit extra, Commander Stevenson will allow you to sit at the gunnery station below the Commander's Station, so you can experience your adventure personally."

"That sound's perfect! But correct me if I'm wrong, but I though Cmdr. Stevenson flew a Cobra Mark Three."

"That she does, ma'am, the Slave of the Empire. She recently acquired Emerald's Dawn to expand her operations both here and on the Imperial/Federal border. Are you familiar with the Commander?"

"Yes! I'm a huge fan of racing, and when I saw she was offering tours, I couldn't resist. I just got cast to portray a pilot in a remake of an ancient action movie, and to better understand my role, I want to experience what it's like to race like that. Would she be willing to accommodate me like that? I'm willing to pay extra."

"Why certainly, ma'am. Just sign this release here, and get outfitted for a Remloc. Your adventure awaits!"

--== 15 minutes later ==--

Abby Wong gingerly settled down in the lower command chair, staring out the bubble of glass before her. She tried to ignore the tightness of the Remloc she was wearing and the tubes in uncomfortable places, and focused instead on the adventure she was about to embark on. This was going to be great!

"Miss Wong, are you ready?"

"I'm ready, Commander Stevenson. And please, call my Abby."

"Then call me Inga, Abby. Rachel, are you and our first class passengers secured?"

"Affirmative, Commander! They're all snug and secure here. Telepresence headsets are connected."

"Excellent. Hang on, Abby. I'm about to activate our Remlocs."

Abby let out a gasp as powerful magnets jerked her backwards into the seat. She could feel several clamps and plugs attach themselves into the back plate of her suit, and parts of the suit began to tighten around her legs and abdomen. "What the hell is... ow! What was that?" Something had just stuck into the back of her neck.

"Didn't you read the instructions? We Emerald girls may be able to endure higher G's than the average human, but you wanted the 'full racing experience.' Unless you want to black out if we require some high-G maneuvers, then the Remloc suit is going to try to keep the blood where it does the most good, and if you really need it, it can pump in some lovely, lovely chems to help you remain functional."

"Is that really necessary, Inga?"

"Be glad this wasn't 20 years ago, Abby. If you think this is bad, the Dreamweaver capsule was ten times worse. Ready to go?"

"Yes! Let's get this show on the road!"

"Roger! Mackenzie Relay Traffic Control, this is Lakon India November Golf, requesting clearance for departure."

"Copy that, Lakon India November Golf. The slot is clear. Try not to damage the toaster rack this time."

Abby frowned. What did traffic control mean by...

The actress successfully kept from screaming as God kicked her in the back. Hard.

"Dammit, Stevenson! Be careful!"

"Just working out the kinks in the Dawn's new engines, Control." Above her, Cmdr. Stevenson switched off the comm link. "Hang on to your butt, Abby!"

Not content to simply kick her in the back, God's invisible hand shoved her roughly down into the chair, while the Remloc squeezed her legs mercilessly. Almost unnoticed was the whine of the FSD spooling up.

"One more little tap, Abby, and we'll be making our first jump."

The Almighty kicked her in the back again, as Mackenzie Relay loomed large in front of the ship. The targeting reticle highlighted their destination BEHIND the station. "Wait! I thought we can't jump through things!"

"We're not. We're jumping between two of the station's support arms."

As the computer's voice finished its down, the Lord of Creation, not content to smack around His new and suddenly very devout believer, settled His vast immensity on Abby's chest.

As Emerald's Dawn vanished into Witchspace, Abby Wong suddenly remembered an ancient definition of adventure: "Someone else, far away from the comforts of home, up to their necks in ____."

--== One jump later ==--

"Inga! There's smoke billowing from the control panel!" The vertical bridge, while stifling hot, did provide a gorgeous view of the uncomfortably close star below.

"Don't worry, Abby. As long as there's no sparks, the ship's fine. It can take a little heat."

--== On initial approach to the first tourist beacon ==--

"Inga! You're not slowing down! Why aren't you slowing down!"

"Don't worry, we will."

"WHY ARE WE POINTING TOWARDS THE PLANET?!"

--== At the second tourist beacon ==--

"Where did all this wreckage come from?"

"Abby, sometimes pirates target passenger liners. They rarely hang around afterwards, though."

"Oh. Wait, rarely?"

--== On initial approach to the third tourist beacon ==--

Remloc suit RL-983A-7-56HT, sensing that its occupant's heart rate was once again unacceptably high, decided it was too soon for a third dose of performance enhancers, so it tried soothing music instead. It also noted that its waste pockets needed to be emptied.

--== Back at MacKenzie Relay ==--

Commander Inga Stevenson shut down Dawn's engines as the docking pad 38 dropped her ship down into the bowels of the station. Mindful of the low 0.1g pseudo-gravity of the station docking cylinder, she headed towards the gunner's station below her. She wasn't worried about the rest of her passengers. The first class cabins were specially designed to minimize the discomfort of space travel. The Remloc clad woman in the gunner's seat, on the other hand, didn't have that advantage. While she never complained, Inga was still worried about Abby's reaction to her little 'adventure.'

Inga opened the door, and peered nervously inside. "Abby?"

She found herself the recipient of vigorous hug. "Oh my GOD, Inga! That was incredible! And you do this every day?"

"Yeah?"

"We have GOT to do this again the next time we're both in Cemiess. Thanks for the Adventure, Inga. It was worth the whole four million."
_________________

It's long been a private joke of mine that the woman in my signature isn't the real Inga Stevenson, but the actress who will play Inga Stevenson in the 3310 Achenar Broadcasting Company's miniseries "The Adventures of Inga Stevenson, Slave of the Empire!"

She now has a name. Abby Wong.
smile.png

Since I'm waiting for my supper to cook, here's what I consider my usual exploration loop, same style:

Another dud.

Commander Inga Stevenson leaned back on the command seat of her Diamondback Explorer, Far Venture, ignoring the overheating warning lights as the FSD continued to charge, the Venture's fuel scoop greedily consuming the free hydrogen in the star's outer atmosphere. Heat levels were only at 90%, and the scoop was already winding down.

Maybe the next system will be worth sticking around for, she thought as she nudged her ship into alignment with the next jump. Still plenty of fuel in the tank. Five seconds later, the ship transitioned fully into Witchspace, leaving the lonely star behind them.

Next system's primary is a "K" type star. She did some quick calculations in her head, as the clouds of Witchspace swirled around her ship. That means the habitable zone will be between about 200 and 700 light seconds. She automatically glanced at the throttle in her left hand, making sure it was set for maximum maneuverability. Seconds later, her ship transitioned out of deep Witchspace, the system's primary looming in front of her.

Her fingers danced across her controls. Long practice called up the network panel on her left, even as she set a course that would allow her to replenish some of the fuel she'd spent getting here. She didn't even look at the results of the just completed discovery scan. She wanted her FSD to spool up as soon as the next system cleared this horizon. Only after she had initiated the jump did she look at the panel on her left.

Okay, let's see what we have here. Quite a few rocky bodies close in, and a binary planet 300 light seconds out. She immediately zeroed her throttle, canceled the jump, and turned her ship sunward, scanning it. Let's see if they're worth a closer look.

She called up the system map, the ship's holofac projecting a crude map of the system before her. Bachelor number one has no atmosphere, so no need to look further. But hello, bachelor number two! B2 was definitely worth a closer look. Atmosphere, check. Mass of 70% of Earth's, check. Potential terraforming candidates were always worth her while. Spreading the light of freedom, civilization, and prosperity was a lot easier when you didn't have to convince people of the benefits of Imperial Citizenship first.

It didn't take long for the scan to complete. She started the scan of B1 before calling up the system map a second time. She smiled when she saw, on the DSS' report, the second most wonderful phrase in the world: "Terraforming Candidate."

B1 scan complete, she set her ship to rise out of the orbital plane. She wanted a good look at the system if she was going to scan it all. After all, if Imperial colonists came here, they'd want to know where the good stuff is.
 
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For me Supercruise is generally interactive already, sure there could be more to it. But what most people do is set the throttle to 70% and watch some TV, then get annoyed when they get interdicted and say that the ship appeared out of nowhere. Or maybe they where just not paying attention.

I have never done that, I always have the throttle on max, try to steer around gravity wells and constantly scanning new contacts (ships) that turn up, so I know whats out there and don't get surprised. Could it have more, it sure could. I would love to be able to look at the local news on longer SC journeys, so I can see whats going on and they need to make that news a bit more intersting, maybe even get possible mission pointers out of it. But really most supercruise flights are as interesting as you make them. Obviously the ones that are over 100,000ls away can get boring, hence the reason why i would like to have something in-game to do, like the local news etc.

Obviously when out exploring, that is a different matter and unfortunatly there isn't that much you can do.

It would be made even more interactive if actively scanning a system caused USS's & PoI's, within a certain range, to pop into being......and be persistent for that commander until investigated or out of range. Oh, & if Checkpoints were a legitimate threat to uninterrupted SC travel.
 
After reading the 2.4 beta thread it would appear that they are taking all the danger out of exploration. Getting pretty fed up with it all to be honest.

On the bright side my avatar can have long hair whilst the game isn't running.

Actually, I read it as "we are giving you ways to repair your hull, explorers, so next year we plan to make exploration *more* dangerous."
 
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