A message to Frontier From D2EA

[Ian Doncaster]

Maybe it's conspiracy theorist in me, but overall there are a lot of little things that make me worries that we may be coming to an end of ED, slowly (still) but steady. I truly hope this is just an impression I'm getting and it's not actually the case.

I don't think Frontier think they're heading that way. The new launcher for Monday is probably a pretty good example: sure, the current one has issues, but they're basically the same issues it's had for a decade. There'd really be no point in making a new one (with its own inevitable early-days bugs) if the intent was to wind things down; flawed as it is the current one would get through another few years.

 

[Darrack]

That's a point I am regularly trying to make. All this "Panther Clipper when", "we need this or that feature or game unplayable" and frustration about unfulfilled dreams.txt is not a healthy way to spend your free time. I always say: Like the game as it is now and enjoy what it offers as long as you do. If you don't anymore, take a break or walk away. Everything else, everything new we get is a bonus. Personally, I am still having a lot of fun, and when I don't, I take a break. Sometimes for weeks. It's actually very simple.

It's not like we bought a share of Frontier with our game license. It's not a subscription service that needs to deliver every month to their regularly paying customers, most probably paid less than 60 quid for the game, some got it even for free, and still complain. I think I paid like 60 Euro for the game initially (base game plus Horizons), and 30 for Odyssey? I have just crossed the 2600 hour mark, so right now, I spent around 3.5 cents per hour on this entertainment. I have spent much more money on much less entertaining things.

Sure, some paid considerable money in the kickstarter. Maybe it makes them bitter when you align with another man's vision and you have to realize said vision will not completely come true. But in the end it's a frikkin' game, and a very complex one with a lot of things to do. Most players got much more than their 60 quids' worth of entertainment out of the game.

Haha exactly, £60 divided by 5700 hours (where im at atm) is about 1p!
Looks like more hours today as most likely no play at Old Trafford

O7

 

[yianniv]

I don't think Frontier think they're heading that way. The new launcher for Monday is probably a pretty good example: sure, the current one has issues, but they're basically the same issues it's had for a decade. There'd really be no point in making a new one (with its own inevitable early-days bugs) if the intent was to wind things down; flawed as it is the current one would get through another few years.

I read in the forums that the current launcher is based in IE. Maybe they're changing it because that browser is obsolete now.

 

[Ian Doncaster]

I read in the forums that the current launcher is based in IE. Maybe they're changing it because that browser is obsolete now.

That's true, but IE's been obsolete since 2015, and as a component of Windows will remain "supported" as long as the OS itself does. Microsoft have committed to keeping "IE mode" for Edge available until at least 2029, which will require the component to hang around, so if Frontier expected to end ED before then there'd be no need to redo the launcher on those grounds.

 

[Ultra Fluffy]

There are several types of content providers (I would not call them influencers, because you would have to be very weak minded to be persuaded or influenced by them). They tend to vary in the same way as posters on this forum.

• Doom merchants who will predict the demise of ED at the drop of a hat.
• Those that review games that have not been released yet and make predictions based on minimal information.
• Those that provide tips and tricks. Some of these tend to be very much tailored to their particular style of play. Others are really useful.
• Those that try to get the F word into every sentence. You know which YouTuber I'm talking about.
• Those that want their particular career in ED to be improved, or harp on about the usual "Ship Interiors" or "New ships", without coming up with a good argument except "I want it".
• Those that film themselves playing the game as if it is the most interesting thing in the world. They have no commentary and quite frankly they are as dull as watching paint dry.
• Those that peak an interest in the viewer and make them try something new. You could call them influencers.

I find D2EA to be one of the better content providers. I don't always agree with everything he says. I sometimes get bored with what he does on his live streams, but his helper video have been very useful in the past. At least when he expresses an opinion, he give justification for it.

As far as this particular video is concerned, he came up with some good ideas. Again I would not necessarily agree with everything, but in general terms I agree that FDev needs to appeal to everyone when they add new features. The Thargoid war has generated a lot of interest in a certain sector of the player base and brought back some players. However, I agree with D2EA that it should not be totally focussed on one area and he was right to highlight exploration, being the opposite of the pew, pew, shoot 'em in the face gameplay. He certainly got people talking about certain topics. After all we currently have 13 pages of comments about one video as I write, not to mention the number of comments on the YouTube page itself. I don't think he was trying to represent the whole player base, just using statistics to prove a point. He has never been good at making conclusion from statistics, but then I have never met anyone who has. Statistic are a mechanism for proving a point, but it is so easy to bend them to prove your point that they tend to be a waste of time. At least he is highlighting areas he feels should be improved, rather than FDev who do do not like to say anything lest they be criticised, or doom merchants who just want to predict the end of the game and the demise of the world.

I particularly like the fact that he has posted this video and then gone on holiday. Light blue touch paper and stand well back. He must be sitting on a beach with a large smile on his face.

 

[Ultra Fluffy]

I think I paid like 60 Euro for the game initially (base game plus Horizons), and 30 for Odyssey? I have just crossed the 2600 hour mark, so right now, I spent around 3.5 cents per hour on this entertainment. I have spent much more money on much less entertaining things.

I would agree. I think I have paid more for the electricity to power my PC while playing the game than I did for the software. That to my mind is value for money. I've spent more on other games and played them for less time than it took to install them.

 

[Ultra Fluffy]

and there's the post of today
"hey, we've dropped 3 issues cause we won't look further into it(like lighting that we said it was fixed but it wasnt!), and no talks of the said "system rework" yet, but here's a shiny new client, we know you will LOVE a new client more than the 3 issues we just dropped alongside many others being fixed, right?"

I can understand why they did what they did, but it was not very well put. These tickets are very much needles in haystacks. They really bug some people whilst other did not even realise it was a problem. These super vague tickets need to be more precise, with examples, specific instances and (to be helpful) as much evidence as possible, so that the devs can be targeted at a specific issue, rather than "it goes wrong" comments. The more evidence the more the limited devs can be focused. We should be helping the devs with their battle against the management rather than providing FDev management with excuses why the fix cannot be done.

 

[Helmut Grokenberger]

I would agree. I think I have paid more for the electricity to power my PC while playing the game than I did for the software. That to my mind is value for money. I've spent more on other games and played them for less time than it took to install them.

Also, that 3.5 cents number is shrinking with every hour I play. But to be fair, I made some considerable investments into my PC hardware, both the PC itself as well as the HOSAS and other paraphernalia, since I've been bitten by the ED bug. But these are tangible things that don't disappear when I stop playing the game, they will still be usable for other purposes. So yeah, I invested heavily into the game, so the game price is negligible. But still, I think Frontier fulfilled their end of the bargain: I paid a certain sum for their game, and they delivered me entertainment for 2600 hours and counting. It was a good deal.

 

[Ultra Fluffy]

Also, that 3.5 cents number is shrinking with every hour I play. But to be fair, I made some considerable investments into my PC hardware, both the PC itself as well as the HOSAS and other paraphernalia, since I've been bitten by the ED bug. But these are tangible things that don't disappear when I stop playing the game, they will still be usable for other purposes. So yeah, I invested heavily into the game, so the game price is negligible. But still, I think Frontier fulfilled their end of the bargain: I paid a certain sum for their game, and they delivered me entertainment for 2600 hours. It was a good deal.

Plus we are getting updates every six months. Try getting the hardware suppliers to supply new features at regular intervals!

 

[Kallipar]

Outer Worlds anyone ? Good solo game. I played it twice.
Fallout .xxx played a few times, then it's sat on steam library for years.
RPG' for the general population are one shot. ED sits in a strange place it has elements of solo, RPG and multiplayer, 3 flavours if you like. Many thousands of hours gameplay here. Now that's value for money.

 

[Helmut Grokenberger]

Outer Worlds anyone ? Good solo game. I played it twice.

I bought that one on release, so I probably paid 60 Euro for it. Played it once plus the DLCs, and spent maybe... 40? 60? hours on it. Let's face it, most other games are terrible value. I got a good price/entertainment ratio out of the Fallout games, because I bought them all on sale. But I also have games in my library I paid full price for and they turned out to have content for 20 hours. So....

 

[Reggit]

The vast majority of these youtubers will never fully support the game, being controversial or just blatantly slagging it off gets more views and drags in their target audience which is anyone who nods along to their inane drivel, mostly those who have left the game or play it very rarely...

I just like flying pretty spaceships

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aj_iCMxx6Mc

...Than again, my channel remains small - maybe I should complain more!

 

[Disemboweled Ego]

Game sales reps influences only speak for themselves, its their opinion just like we all have our own opinions.
We will all never want the same thing out of Elite as we all have different play styles and views.
The vast majority of these youtubers will never fully support the game, being controversial or just blatantly slagging it off gets more views and drags in their target audience which is anyone who nods along to their inane drivel, mostly those who have left the game or play it very rarely.

If you want to be very cynical and don't believe there's any authenticity to anything anyone with an audience says then that's fine, but in a purely pragmatic sense it's also in their interest that the game do well.

What does a youtuber fully supporting a game even mean? It's certainly more fun to see people enjoying things and finding the good parts even in bad games, but being uncritical and presenting a happy lively/hyperactive persona and putting on your gamer voice is exactly the thing the sellout youtubers/streamers would be advised to do for more views. Are there actually any Elite streamers like that?

How I remember it (and what twitchtracker seems to back up) is that after Odyssey bombed many content creators saw their numbers go down and eventually branched out more to other games. Those some just quit Elite entirely.

This is a free MMO (even in solo), we get regular extra things to do in the bubble - FREE - or you can just ignore it and stay out in the black.
I fail to see how these tubers can demand extra content without a paid subscription.

Saying it's a free MMO is meaningless when the subscription-based MMO model hasn't been competitive/viable for a while and only exist in a "members club", almost or entirely pay to win sense where the base game is free and you pay for extra inventory space/xp boosts or whatever.

 

[Alec Turner]

I just like flying pretty spaceships

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aj_iCMxx6Mc

...Than again, my channel remains small - maybe I should complain more!

Forget sharing D2EA's video .... but this? this looks awesome, deserves more views, and is totally the kind of thing I can get behind. Need to give it a proper watch later (about to go and see Openheimer) but I might give this a shoutout in Tuesday's Lave Radio community section. You did want to be famous right?

 

[Ultra Fluffy]

If you want to be very cynical and don't believe there's any authenticity to anything anyone with an audience says then that's fine, but in a purely pragmatic sense it's also in their interest that the game do well.

Not necessarily. Some YouTubers have made a career out of slagging off games until they die, then moving onto the next game.

 

[Ultra Fluffy]

I just like flying pretty spaceships

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aj_iCMxx6Mc

...Than again, my channel remains small - maybe I should complain more!

Nice video with great cinematics. Now do a video showing me how to create my own and I might watch it all the way through. Sorry got to 2 minutes and then I switched to something else. Might watch it all later, might not.

 

[Disemboweled Ego]

Not necessarily. Some YouTubers have made a career out of slagging off games until they die, then moving onto the next game.

Yes, that's an algorithm thing too - it's kinda parasitic and just critiquing something that people like is an easy/low effort way to generate engagement through controversy, but it requires the thing to be at least somewhat popular already to leech views off of it before moving on.

It's useful to learn to spot that and it's not that hard, in the case of the video on the original post even without context there's clearly some effort gone towards reasoned out novel constructive ideas instead of just criticizing stuff by reiterating the most popular forum threads or reddit posts.

I guess my deeper point also was that abstracting things too much and out of hand dismissing and distrusting everyone's motive instead of trying to analyze it is still intellectually lazy even if being cynical might give off the feeling of being smarter than everyone else and those shortcuts can lead to making the wrong conclusions.

 

[rootsrat]

I don't think Frontier think they're heading that way. The new launcher for Monday is probably a pretty good example: sure, the current one has issues, but they're basically the same issues it's had for a decade. There'd really be no point in making a new one (with its own inevitable early-days bugs) if the intent was to wind things down; flawed as it is the current one would get through another few years.

Valid point, thanks for pointing it out.

 

[Ultra Fluffy]

I guess my deeper point also was that abstracting things too much and out of hand dismissing and distrusting everyone's motive instead of trying to analyze it is still intellectually lazy even if being cynical might give off the feeling of being smarter than everyone else and those shortcuts can lead to making the wrong conclusions.

I'm sorry, must be getting tired, but I don't know whether you are defending D2EA or criticising him.

If one makes a comment which is too generic then it will be bent by the listener to either validate their own opinion, or fuel a counter argument. If the comment is too specific then the listener will argue that their opinion has not been covered. It's a no win situation. As long as you back up your opinions with evidence and examples then the listener can evaluate the commenter's opinion and either agree with it or counter with an equally valid differing opinion. The end result is a good discussion. That I believe was D2EA's goal and I think he achieved that.

 

[Disemboweled Ego]

I'm sorry, must be getting tired, but I don't know whether you are defending D2EA or criticising him.

I'm criticizing people who are predisposed to dismissing the entire thing because he's a youtuber or content creator or whatever.

If one makes a comment which is too generic then it will be bent by the listener to either validate their own opinion, or fuel a counter argument. If the comment is too specific then the listener will argue that their opinion has not been covered. It's a no win situation.

This currently kinda puts everyone who wants to critique elite in the unenviable position where there's so much wrong with the game that a holistic approach is impossible and focusing on anything just es off the other 99% of the player base whose pet peeve wasn't addressed.

I alluded to this in my first post in this thread, but the game doesn't need to get great overnight, it just needs to get better over time and depending on where you stand it might be actually getting worse.

I'd love to see someone make an "Everything wrong with Elite Dangerous in 10h or less" video going over every legitimate issue tracker item but that amounts to self-harm.