A message to Frontier From D2EA

[Northpin]

I think FDev said that 20 minutes to the total minimum time needed, how that is allocated to cool down/ spool up is irrelevant.

No, the spool up time seems the important one because it needs to advertise then to sync the new carrier position in the galaxy
If you watch the process, 10 minutes before jump your carrier already gets a POI at the destination system.

Probably they could decrease the spool up time a bit (maybe to 10 minutes), but doing so would increase the risk of desyncs. So they kept it safe to 15 minutes spool-up and 5 minutes post-jump cleanup

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

No, the spool up time seems the important one because it needs to advertise then to sync the new carrier position in the galaxy
If you watch the process, 10 minutes before jump your carrier already gets a POI at the destination system.

Probably they could decrease the spool up time a bit (maybe to 10 minutes), but doing so would increase the risk of desyncs. So they kept it safe to 15 minutes spool-up and 5 minutes post-jump cleanup

There is also to consider that passengers not docked might need a decent amount of time allowed to return back to the carrier.

 

[Banana's_Are_Good_For_You]

As per St0rmfury's list:

If the end of the thargoid thing results in somethng permament for AX, that can be tweaked over time, then i'd be happy enough. It's taking some time so i understand the frustration.
New ships? New DLC is probably the best hope there.
FC's can't jump any faster. This was discussed with ED with some of the explo community at the time who wanted an insta-500ly jump buggy..
Can you not buy tritium off mining FC's?
As for pushing towards explo now, they pretty much rebelled against ODY, i can't see FD doing anything that would change their mindset beyond a total re-design which seems unlikely.
They never said they would add more weapons, afaik. Certainly not through ARX or P2W drama.
Hope i got them all...

 

[Cmdr Derzelat]

Thanks.
Well... looks like "let's complain, cause complaining makes the clicks flow and"

1. I cannot say that i'm happy about the thargoid focus, but i'm not against it either - there are people enjoying it (and i personally got more than 20 billions (bonds only, some more from missions) fighting the thargoids post U14)
2. The only new ship i want is the Panther Clipper - or any ship with about 1300-1500 tons cargo to help fill/unload carriers faster.
3. this looks like let's make up some issues up so we can complain and get clicks - they've explained they dropped the spool-up time as much they could before getting into technical issues related to advertising the carrier presence in the galaxy
4. Nah, i think it's fine as it is.
6. Same as 3 - let's make up some issues. There were plenty of new stuff, new srv, new carrier interiors, new ship modules and weapons, new thargoid war mechanics, new thargoid ships, etc.

How about 5.? You've missed it, i think this is where i totally agree with DEA and wish for ED to grow and developed more. Its stagnant by at least 2 yrs and hoped if not for atmoshperic elw, then at least some changes to the minigame or New content to discover, cant be that a 1:1 Milky Way is that poor in findings.

 

[Alec Turner]

First thought ... "64% of you voted you were either negative or neutral".

Errrr, OK sure. The phrase that comes to mind is ..

.. 'cos that graph looks pretty balanced to me, if anything ever so slightly tending towards positive.

 

[Helmut Grokenberger]

First thought ... "64% voted you were either negative or neutral".

Errrr, OK sure. The phrase that comes to mind is ..

.. 'cos that graph looks pretty balanced to me, if anything ever so slightly tending towards positive.

He definitely fell for his own bias. If I remember my school math right, 17+20 is a larger number than 9+10 by quite a margin. So while his poll is definitely leaning towards the positive, he discarded that and went for the doom. But hey, "82% are neutral or positive" doesn't fit the "ded game" narrative. Also, the graph totals to 101% .

 

[zimms]

The "live service game" narrative is equally wrong.

D2EA seems to be under the misconception that Elite is still in full development. For some, a new module to unlock every 6 months is all they ever wished for.

 

[Banana's_Are_Good_For_You]

@derzelat
It's not been stagnent. They spent the majority of the first year bringing the game up to speed then tried something different with the thargoid war.
It may not have been to your tastes but it's not like they did nothing.

 

[Cmdr Derzelat]

@derzelat
It's not been stagnent. They spent the majority of the first year bringing the game up to speed then tried something different with the thargoid war.
It may not have been to your tastes but it's not like they did nothing.

I was also reffering as stagnant strictly towards exobiology. As a sandbox, that was my thing in it, i am glad that other developments pleased many as i think it kept some interest into the game. But i also do think that they should keep developing as a whole rather than specifics.
Edit : in northpin reply i mentioned " 5." as stormfurys LIST (exobiology)

 

[Untilting]

First thought ... "64% voted you were either negative or neutral".

.. 'cos that graph looks pretty balanced to me, if anything ever so slightly tending towards positive.

I didn't get the impression he was playing fast and loose here, just arguing that the majority of the player base still seem to be <= "meh" regarding the Thargoid war, so adding more non-war updates would receive wider appreciation.

 

[Alec Turner]

OK, I'm gonna listen to this video and comment as I go.

I agree on more ships (see this week's Lave Radio), regardless of whether all the "roles" are theoretically filled or not.

Yes there are bugs/issues (e.g. the fleet carrier timers ... whatever, hopefully they might get fixed eventually , complete tangent to the bigger point which takes up too much time on this video).

I agree explorers shouldn't be forced into "mining", then again explorers aren't forced into using a fleet carrier (so really it's more of a case of "fleet carrier owners being forced into mining" and that's a different argument) ... bla bla bla, more confusing of (very real) FC issues with exploring and long distance travel. Yes there are issues with refuelling fleet carriers, move on.

Totally agree that Frontier under value Elite's exploration gameplay, they always have. One of the game's greatest assets is the 1:1 galaxy and they don't capitalise on it. Agree 100%.

I mildly disagree that explorers want puzzle solving gameplay, I think many just like the relaxed flying/driving experience and enjoying the look and feel of the environment and don't need any additional puzzle solving gameplay. That said I like the prospecting ideas.

New suits/weapons - same argument as new ships. Practically the roles are filled and FD don't need to add any more (are players seriously desparate for new guns?). Additional work on new suits/weapons is seriously diminshing returns for FD. It would be lovely but I just don't think it fits with their current dev time budget model of delivering tangible bang for buck in the updates. I'd love them to spend time fleshing things out for the pure added depth and variety of it ... but I don't think they will.

As for tagging socials so Frontier get to see this video? Nope, D2EA's opinion is as valid as anyone elses ... but not more so.

 

[Factabulous]

To be fair to him - D2EA did point out that if you asked people about any aspect of the game most would ask for 'something else' (as there are a lot of things to prefer ). Shame he didn't get his viewers to vote on all his alternatives

* OA does similar things - bias in questionnaires is a thing

 

[Phoenix_Dfire]

First thought ... "64% voted you were either negative or neutral".

Errrr, OK sure. The phrase that comes to mind is ..

.. 'cos that graph looks pretty balanced to me, if anything ever so slightly tending towards positive.

So only 19% of respondents found things negative? So 81% we’re not negative? If you knock out the neutrals, it’s 37% who are happy to 19% who arn’t. In addition, when you look at h the last months reviews, there are quite a few positive views than negative.

I’m not saying elite is a perfect game, it still has issues that needs fixing, but there are a lot of new people coming in wondering why it has so many negative reviews, which is different to their experience.

It took NMS five years to become positive on steam after its disastrous launch, so there’s a way to go. We’ll see what they say about the live stream today and the update in a couple of weeks.

 

[Helmut Grokenberger]

I’m not saying elite is a perfect game, it still has issues that needs fixing, but there are a lot of new people coming in wondering why it has so many negative reviews, which is different to their experience.

any game will have problems keeping the excitement once the player goes into four figure hours. It is only natural that it is more exciting for new players than for veterans. As a veteran, you either make your peace with the flaws and find your corner of the game to get comfy in, or you move on.

Or you moan on the internet how you could design a much better game. It's a choice.

 

[Alec Turner]

Can anyone give the main points that they made?

I'm unhappy with fleet carrier refuelling (and some other hand-wavy big picture issues), I've done a poll, misinterpreted the results to fit my narrative and would like everyone to share my video because I'm important and I want Frontier to hear me.

 

[zimms]

It's also a self-selected sample group.

Polls (especially from social media personalities) usually require a bit more than a single grain of salt.

 

[Northpin]

How about 5.? You've missed it, i think this is where i totally agree with DEA and wish for ED to grow and developed more. Its stagnant by at least 2 yrs and hoped if not for atmoshperic elw, then at least some changes to the minigame or New content to discover, cant be that a 1:1 Milky Way is that poor in findings.

I have not missed it, but i have nothing to add to it.
The galaxy is there, who wants to go out an explore can do so and i frankly dont know how can they incentivize exploration - the galaxy cant be modified - it's a done deal
If you are curious what bodies a system has, what characteristics, what orbits - you have to go there.

So anything new will have to come as a major rework, specifically in terms of planetary surface / environments - like full atmo planets.
I'd love for FDev to implement them, but that's not something FD promised for Odyssey.
Which only means it can come in a future DLC - which DLC may or may not happen.

 

[Northpin]

I'm unhappy with fleet carrier refuelling (and some other hand-wavy big picture issues), I've done a poll, misinterpreted the results to fit my narrative and would like everyone to share my video because I'm important and I want Frontier to hear me.

 

[Disemboweled Ego]

There's really no silver bullet of new content or QoL fixes that will fix the game - there needs to be a long term vision and commitment that the roadmap didn't deliver. Something on the lines of the Beyond series of updates.

It seems like FDev is struggling to deliver what little content it does add. This is partly because they're stretching it out with time gated narrative unlocks that players have no real control over. For them getting anything out might take precedence over QoL updates that change existing things. The disperate pieces of new content aren't coming together and are mostly just frustrating instead of fun after you see or do the new cool thing one time. to Odyssey still isn't in a good state and I don't fault them for abandoning the on-foot stuff because it's never going to shine, but the game still looks and performs worse across the board.

There has been new stuff added since the odyssey launch that isn't related to the big thargoid war, but none of it is essential or meaningful enough (Fleet Carrier/Megaship concourses, Scorpion, Rocket Soldiers in foot CZs, Defend the Canister missions, FC odyssey mats storage/trading, Being able to sit and being able to do other stuff while sitting in two separate patches!). On top of that there's regressions in almost every patch that make the game worse that people seem to have gotten used to by now (fractional notoriety for on foot crimes, on foot CZ relog teleporting you to stations, buying from the FC market not updating your cargo hold immediatley, deployed SRVs dissapearing on relog, more thargoid random encounters with the inter/hyperdictions that run the mechanic to the ground and almost never result in an exciting encounter). Odyssey is IMO still worse than horizons because it runs worse and it's gotten slightly worse in other areas as well and there'd have to be a lot more new content to make it tilt the scales the other way, but I'd rather have what's there play better than it currently does.

I mildly disagree that explorers want puzzle solving gameplay, I think many just like the relaxed flying/driving experience and enjoying the look and feel of the environment and don't need any additional puzzle solving gameplay. That said I like the prospecting ideas.

I think something like an exploration bingo would be a happy medium - you could optimize the fun out of it to get the easiest to fill in squares, but also just go and try to fill in as many squares basically randomly. Many puzzle games are indeed notreally about solving puzzles but leading the player on and giving them AHA moments when they figure something out and learn something new.

 

[Alec Turner]

The galaxy is there, who wants to go out an explore can do so and i frankly dont know how can they incentivize exploration - the galaxy cant be modified - it's a done deal
If you are curious what bodies a system has, what characteristics, what orbits - you have to go there.

So anything new will have to come as a major rework, specifically in terms of planetary surface / environments - like full atmo planets.
I'd love for FDev to implement them, but that's not something FD promised for Odyssey.
Which only means it can come in a future DLC - which DLC may or may not happen.

I think something like an exploration bingo would be a happy medium - you could optimize the fun out of it to get the easiest to fill in squares, but also just go and try to fill in as many squares basically randomly. Many puzzle games are indeed notreally about solving puzzles but leading the player on and giving them AHA moments when they figure something out and learn something new.

I'm not sure this is what you mean by exploration Bingo but there is of course the Codex and the "Eye Spy" book (anyone remember those) idea of ticking things off. I think that's a bit tucked away and could be made a more front-and-center feature of the game.

As a fan of driving around on planets (who quite enjoys what exobiology brings in terms of providing a reason to go and do that beyond the pure joy of exploring alien terrain) ... I've often thought that some kind of mapping gameplay could be cool. Maybe have the ability to triangulate mountain ranges or canyons (perhaps with the need to get right on top of the former to "complete the mapping process"). Handing in data for outliers (especially large mountains, especially wide or extensive canyon complexes, especially deep craters) could pay out big bucks, or earn tagged entries in the Codex? Of course the problem with this is ... Odyssey doesn't really have any outliers, we left those behind with legacy planet tech (sorry, couldn't resist it but hey, D2EA has his FC grievances, I have my planet tech grievances).