For one, you can't swap out or overwrite weapon/suit mods.
A message to Frontier From D2EA
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So why dont you simply make a new one?
Because the grind for that is soul crushing, way worse than ships.
Thats not what I'm here debating. Its D2EA and the OP. I gave my opinion, which matters no more than D2EA
Lol, how would you know that? We can override mods for ships and even swap modules.
But who needs logic, when it's just about dismissing any kind of criticism as quickly as possible.
It for sure should be. That would be the singlemost important QoL update for Odyssey.
It was just a question. I wanted to see if you're as cynical about Frontier as well. You know, with them being a business and wanting money.
Worse than ships? And it's already two years since release. 2.0 had a full revision by then. I dont think it's gonna get a rework - they are busy enough getting the story delivered.
Well all that isn't really true, or rather, it isn't that simple. If by "experimenting" you mean swapping out ten (or however many) different mods over a short period of time then no, you cannot do that. But the barriers to experimentation are the same as with ship weapons - you do the engineering, and if you don't like it, buy a new weapon and try again (or you throw away the engineering on your ship gun, which is effectively the same thing). It is a bit more complicated because you cannot combine engineering on ship weapons, but the engineering is lost in both cases. And the equivalent to equipping different guns in a ship is... equipping different guns in a suit loadout. Crazy, I know.
"Trying out" is possible if you buy preengineered stuff. You have to make a bit of an effort, but it is possible to find pretty much every weapon and suit with every modification preapplied. So you can try out without engineering at all.
The engineering part isn't that horrible either if you actually play the game and don't fall for the trap to make a huge list of ten suits and twenty weapons, all G5 and with 120 mods in total (yes, that was hyperbole). A queen list (I want it all, and I want it now) is overwhelming and impossible to work with. You need to make small, achieveable goals. Start with G3 gear, and almost everything with maybe the exception of protect missions and, depending on your skills high CZs, is doable in store bought G3 gear. Go get that, and then do the missions you fancy. Prioritize what you need / want first, and then do missions for materials.
It is not hard, and it is fun. Having an engineering goal also gives you a reason to do on foot missions, should you need them. I am not a grinder nor a hardcore player, and it took me mabe two months to unlock all bubble engineers and get three suits and four weapons to fully modded G5. I did it by making small goals, doing missions specifically for the materials I need and stealing everything that is not nailed down. And before I G5'ed my stuff, I bought a few preengineered suits and weapons and tried out some stuff. When I roughly knew what I wanted, I started with empty G3 suits and weapons with the exception of my Dominator which already had NV, my Intimidator that had a scope, and a Maverick with added backpack (that was kind of a jackpot buy).
It didn't crush my soul. I had fun.
Also, as a note: That "soul crushing grind" didn't make me stop doing it or wanting to quit the game. I have since engineered another Maverick to fully modded G5 for a different play style as well as another G5 weapon with four mods.
Just don't grind, folks.
Just don't grind, folks.
Yeah, yeah. Very crazy. But it's still not comparable.
You can simply buy an A-rated module. You don't have to spend hours to get an E module to A.
"Just don't grind, folks."
Exactly. That's why I didn't experiment with Odyssey Engineering. I waited for somebody else to do it and post their results.
Module rating is hardly the equivalent to suit and wepon engineering.
Not only that (which people seem to argue is ok in this thread!), but you can't try before you buy.
The suit upgrades are separate from the mods so putting on an useless mod feels like you've "wasted" the base suit upgrade where in ship engineering you can swap out experimental effects at the engineer easily.
In addition you have to commit to potentially all 4 mods to figure out that the last one in the stack isn't what you wanted (stability vs scope for example).
In addition the modding for a single item can require travel to multiple engineers with no pinned mod blueprints (feature was advertised for a patch but never actually implemented or mentioned again)
Most modern games try to offer at least preview gif of the thing you're buying in action even if they don't offer you a full training lab with a DPS dummy.
Trying out is predicated on finding an item you want with the mod you want via complete RNG and only up to 2 mods and G3 suits and it costs money on top - keep in mind newer players are more likely to want to try out the stuff and spending days looking for a scoped tormentor to see if you want to put one on the final slot of your G5 tormentor with 3 other mods isn't really a good system.
Experimentation isn't "I meticulously researched everything" to not accidentally apply some noob trap modifications on my stuff that I can't later replace without redoing the entire thing.
You can't go "I wonder what this does?" or "I'll try this out for fun" and just casually try it out with the foot engineering system.
Experimentation is the opposite of the kind of commitment required in Elite for both suits and ship engineering - it feels less bad with ships because you can store/swap parts and meta has fairly settled in and there's not as many choices, especially for the core modules (unless you're like me and engineer a set of new core modules for every ship weapon layout).
With a ship you can go "what if I had a limpet controller on this ship" and swap out that single module -- with a suit you have to re-engineer the whole suit to G5 with 3 other mods to see if extra sprint is better than combat movement speed.
well my argument is that there are different levels or experimentation being mixed up. Trying a different module in your ship is like using a different gun in your suit, not trying different engineering on your gun. Trying different engineering on your ship weapons is the equivalent to changing engineering on your gun. And both is wasteful if you want to experiment. At least you can buy preengineered weapons and suits. And they are not hard to find.
Theoretically, yes, but in practice no, I think.
The loadout on a ship is made up of 20-30 modules, so if you decide you don't want a particular modification, you can replace that module and the rest of the ship still stands.
You can also change the experimental on a module without losing the main modification, so if you make an overcharged corrosive weapon and then decide that the effect on the ammunition pool is too much, you can switch it to overcharged autoloader for only the cost of the autoloader component. Sure, if you want something other than overcharged you have to start over ... but still, only on that weapon, not the entire ship. And you've still got an overcharged corrosive for later if you find another use for it on a different ship where the ammo pool is less of an issue, of course.
A fully-engineered suit or weapon in Odyssey has eight components, all of which are stuck together. So a full loadout (suit + 2 weapons) needs 24 upgrades - not dissimilar to a ship - but with the ship you can swap out any of those 24 without affecting the other 23, whereas for the loadout you have to swap out an entire block of eight to try something else.
It's not so much of a problem when doing your first loadout, but it's quite a barrier to making further adjustments and experimentation because you can't really compare if G5+A+B+C+D or G5+A+B+C+E is better on a Aphelion until you have both set up (a pre-bought G3+E will clearly be worse, but that's not E's problem). Whereas with a ship, sure, you'd need to engineer up a new 'E'-blueprint module for that slot, but then you could swap it back and forth with the 'D' at will, or maybe if it's weapons have both the D and E at once and swap the B for an F with little marginal cost ... whereas G5+A+C+E+F would be yet another "start over" in Odyssey.
Obviously if you enjoy the Odyssey base-visiting/missions content then it's not a problem; if you're more interested in CZs or Exploration, then those don't give materials.
It kind of is, for a lot of modules.
E to A FSD more than doubles your jump range.
Unengineered to G5+Mass Manager is less than double.
E to A power plant is 50% more power.
Unengineered to G5 Overcharged+Monstered is only 47% more.
A-rated shield generators are more powerful than E-rated G5 Reinforced.
We're just at the stage now where cash is easily available enough to buy A-rated automatically. And, of course, if you don't like an A-rated module, you can sell it for all your credits back to buy a different A-rated module.
Why? Doesn't add any new effects but improves base stats. Sounds pretty close. At least way more accurate than your comparison.
In the end it is not really comparable, because they are two mostly different systems. But it is just wrong to say you have no room for flexibility and experimentation with personal equipment. Are you more restricted by the systems put in place? Yes, no doubt. But it is hardly "impossible" to evaluate stuff, and it isn't this "soul crushing nightmare grind" some people try to paint it as.
And seriously.... I run into modified G3 stuff all the time. You don't need to G5 a store bought G3 Oppressor to know it is a paintball gun. And if you take a G3 Intimidator into a settlement you know using a G5 one will be a slaughter fest. And yes, I sold some stuff at a loss to clean up my inventory. Nobody cares, we're all billionaires, or bound to be
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As long as you guys make hyperbolic claims about the impossible and soul crushing nature of suit and weapons engineering, I might as well keep defending it. It is less than perfect, but it's also not the devil in person. Fight me.
And seriously.... I run into modified G3 stuff all the time. You don't need to G5 a store bought G3 Oppressor to know it is a paintball gun. And if you take a G3 Intimidator into a settlement you know using a G5 one will be a slaughter fest. And yes, I sold some stuff at a loss to clean up my inventory. Nobody cares, we're all billionaires, or bound to be
.As long as you guys make hyperbolic claims about the impossible and soul crushing nature of suit and weapons engineering, I might as well keep defending it. It is less than perfect, but it's also not the devil in person. Fight me
.Well, nobody said it was impossible. Just very, very time consuming and as a result, a lot of players are discouraged to experiment. You even said yourself we should read up on the internet before Engineering our personal equipment.
edit: Btw, your claims that there is no grind at all in the game are at least as hyperbolic.
But thanks for admitting you're not arguing in good faith. Arguments are irrelevant, you will continue your "fight".
edit: Btw, your claims that there is no grind at all in the game are at least as hyperbolic.
But thanks for admitting you're not arguing in good faith. Arguments are irrelevant, you will continue your "fight".
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I don't think I said that. I said get preengineered G3 stuff and play around with it.
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