I don't need this escapade to mock FD to beagle and back, though
FDev is doing their best to mock them selfs.
The mission board is a testament to this.
A Notice on Rockforth Fertiliser TWICE ?
- Thread starter ALEX CAOS
- Start date
FDev is doing their best to mock them selfs.
The mission board is a testament to this.
I didn't do the fertilizer thingy, but I must admit that I find it difficult to figure out what is considered an exploit in ED. If the game allows you to do something without hacking it isn't that to "blaze your own trail"? Isn't part of this game to find those things in the galaxy that gives you an advantage? Otherwise, why does the game have economy and all sorts of stuff you have to discover on your own?
Board flipping was nerfed, and I like that, because it wasn't really good gameplay having to do that. Still everybody does it at Dav's which hasn't been nerfed?
If you see an add in the local newspaper where a soon to be divorced wife is selling her and her cheating husbands Porsche for a dollar, should you turn down the offer? Say you walk into the bank and the person behind the counter says: "It's my last day at work. We have this option to give rich important customers a free trip around the world. I like you so, even though you're not rich, would you like me to give you one of those travels?". Do you answer "no"?
Moral and ethics is a complicated subject even for philosophers. That's how it is IRL, and why should it be different in ED? In ED you're even supposed to be able to try and be immoral like doing piracy, smugling or dealing drugs.
If Fdev mess up, they can fix whatever they like, but making a new law that works retroactively is definitely wrong, no matter what philosophical branch you cling on to.
Board flipping was nerfed, and I like that, because it wasn't really good gameplay having to do that. Still everybody does it at Dav's which hasn't been nerfed?
If you see an add in the local newspaper where a soon to be divorced wife is selling her and her cheating husbands Porsche for a dollar, should you turn down the offer? Say you walk into the bank and the person behind the counter says: "It's my last day at work. We have this option to give rich important customers a free trip around the world. I like you so, even though you're not rich, would you like me to give you one of those travels?". Do you answer "no"?
Moral and ethics is a complicated subject even for philosophers. That's how it is IRL, and why should it be different in ED? In ED you're even supposed to be able to try and be immoral like doing piracy, smugling or dealing drugs.
If Fdev mess up, they can fix whatever they like, but making a new law that works retroactively is definitely wrong, no matter what philosophical branch you cling on to.
Applying some reason here helps.
Running pax missions to rhea for millions -> ok
Doing core mining for millions -> ok
Buying stuff at a starport, immediately selling it for 7mio a cutter load -> not ok
I'd say if you had to fly around for it, maybe in-system, FD would've nerfed it but not taken the money away.
Wasn't there another exploit some time ago which was similar? The mission cargo selling stuff or something like that...
How was that handled?
Running pax missions to rhea for millions -> ok
Doing core mining for millions -> ok
Buying stuff at a starport, immediately selling it for 7mio a cutter load -> not ok
I'd say if you had to fly around for it, maybe in-system, FD would've nerfed it but not taken the money away.
Wasn't there another exploit some time ago which was similar? The mission cargo selling stuff or something like that...
How was that handled?
Ah yes, a mutable text file on the client. Smoking-barrel proof...
Well he has a point. Before FD created legal gold rushes with mining and Robigo I could tell with 100% certainty that all gold rushes are exploits. Now I have reasonable doubts.
The only solution is if FD would keep a list of permitted and not sanctioned gold rushes.
List the so called exploits please? Most of them relied on mission stacking and doing stuff. Not a simple buy-sell clickfest.
So yeah... there's some grey lines for sure.
RE: Mission Cargo Selling stuff... the explicit problem was at Robigo.
Missions were to haul something like 144 slaves 250LY for a few million reward. Thing being, 144 slaves sold for a million on the black market, and there were heaps of these missions on the board. So it was far easier to just accept the missions, dump the missions, sell the (stolen) cargo on the Robigo black market (which also gave you rep with that faction, combined with hurting their influence), boardflip, rinse, repeat. Far more efficient than actually doing the missions. This got fixed by:
- No rep (or minimal, been a while) for BM sales
- BM sales now help anarchy owners
- Stolen goods cannot be sold to the station they were stolen from
In the course of proving the 1t trading issue, I did this not for credits, but to hurt a controlling faction... I dropped them more than 30% in a single night without ever leaving the station. Cue the bugreport, ofc, but none of that works today.
But that said, taking a mission and abandoning it to steal the cargo for sale is legit.
Here's another grey one one... some USS don't despawn after you enter them, so you resolve them, leave, and can go back and do it again. Legit or not? Realistically, with the way spawns have been jacked up, you're just going to hit another one anyway.
Remember when "Seeking Luxuries" was considered an exploit? So glad we patched that one XD
EDIT: I think there's a subtle line between exploit and just imbalanced.
Mission stacking like powerplants, skimmers, massacre missions, that was just plain old imbalanced. In fairness, the current massacre missions are imbalanced in the other direction now, but I digress. You took 20 missions to kill 30 pirates, and all completed when you killed 30 pirates. Imbalanced as, but I'd argue not cheating.
But if you finished those 20 missions without actually killing 30 pirates... yeah cheating.
Trading in the game is a simple "Buy low from somewhere, sell high somewhere else"... with one exception being, for example, if you bought food from an agricultural system the day before it went into famine. You'd make profits the next day, but it would not be repeatable, nor scalable. Buying and selling at the same location instantly, for profit, in the same station without leaving, that's just blatantly wrong.
Likewise, at the time, Seeking Luxuries was probably just imbalanced.
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With what I know about ethics I would say that using reason to figure out if something is right or wrong often leaves you stranded.
To use an old utilitarian paradox: A runaway train is aimed towards five people working further down track. You can switch the train to another track, but that will kill a person that won't be killed if you decide to do nothing. What do you choose to do? Kill five by doing nothing, or kill one by switching the track?
Kill 5 of course. My religion forbids me to actively kill people.
I step into my FDL and gank them all myself, one after another. And the traindriver after that. Then I highwake giggling mad.
-unintended featuresFDEV priorities at the moment:
-Punishment
-Punishment x2 (becuase of the Community Open Letter)
-Bug fix (critical ones only)
-Interstellar Initiative
-Release Universal Limpet Controller(changed my mind becuase of the Community Open Letter)
-Release New SRV's(changed my mind becuase of the Community Open Letter)
-Release new infomation about Fleet Carriers(changed my mind becuase of the Community Open Letter)
-undocumented features
-new bugs
Deontological ethics is even more complicated, since it's often based on gut feelings, and who would have thought those could be subjective? What if it was a billion people to one?
I give it a bit more thought, and my actions could even have legal consequences, because I actively participated in death of one person.Deontological ethics is even more complicated, since it's often based on gut feelings, and who would have thought those could be subjective? What if it was a billion people to one?
The number isn't important. No living being can be harmed because of me directly. Those billion people will be someone else's karma, not mine.
record it and upload it to youtube, probably including a selfie of me. was that a serious question??
Yes. If you go back a few posts, I was trying to argue that it is difficult to figure out what is an exploit and what is not. Bigmaec argued that applying some reason here helps. Then I argued that reasoning isn't always enough to figure out if something is ok to do. The paradox was used as an example of that, but I also used other examples. So you would film it and upload it with a selfie. Was that a serious answer?
This reminds me of a company I used to work for. I was out of country and needed my corporate card limit raised so I sent an email. The finance officer saw my email and asked for approval from my boss to raise it. My boss doesn't check his email very often so once he did check it he gave the ok but by then she had raised it already. After seeing his approval she raised it again. Then someone else came along and raised it again not realizing it had been raised twice already. By the time it was done I had about three times as much credit card limit as I started with and probably more than twice what I needed. They can't go backwards. Now my corporate card limit is higher than my boss's . This is how things happen when action items go out and no one is assigned as the responsible party.