A possible way to inspire people to play in Open

[Chorda]

I popped into Open for the Hesperus shindig, after exploring it all in Solo first as I was fully expecting to get blown to smithereens on poking my head above the parapets. While I didn't get ganked, I was reminded of how the whole, "PvPers are just playing the game the way like like, as intended, and trying to say their motives are purely about griefing is something you can't prove!!!" argument, and how experience had shown, many (many) times before, said gank attempt would be bookended by a load of toxic comms spiel.

Sure enough, up pops a message in systems chat calling everyone sl**s, widely baiting, mocking, adn threatening, and generally behaving like they're a middle school bully. "Wassamatter, you can't handle a bit of friendly banter" etc. etc. Nah, it's just I, like a lot of others, don't really want to engage with the clearly mentally ill.

 

[Peshees]

just rename open to PvP and group/solo to PvE. problem solved.

 

[Llyander]

Get rid of all the oles who think it's funny to attack people "for the lulz" and I'll think about it. But at the end of the day, people are oles and people in online games are MASSIVE oles. So no. I have no interest, ever, in playing in open. But then I also had no interest in this even being an always-online game to begin with and will never forget Frontier's lies during the kickstarter.

 

[Dack Janiels]

Get rid of all the oles who think it's funny to attack people "for the lulz" and I'll think about it. But at the end of the day, people are oles and people in online games are MASSIVE oles. So no. I have no interest, ever, in playing in open. But then I also had no interest in this even being an always-online game to begin with and will never forget Frontier's lies during the kickstarter.

Imagine not shooting at ships in a game with ships and guns

 

[Feanor the Tall]

I've hung my hat at Jameson for years. It's almost impossible to NOT see open squares (which turn into triangles) when entering or leaving that system.

So bring your cargo hauler or miner and hang out at Jameson for a few months. Bring lots of credits with you too.

Oh Jameson in Shin Dez, the elite rank only system where like Deciat it's expected to find other players intent on mayhem? That doesn't describe all of open, not even a tiny reaction of the open galaxy. That's like hanging out in Red Hook, NYC and saying all of new York state is a wasteland because one small part of it is.

 

[The Roofus]

Imagine not shooting at ships in a game with ships and guns

Don't need to imagine mate, it's my daily experience in elite - most of my ships don't even have guns because I play solo which saves a helluva lot of credits and time in engineering.

Play smart. Play solo.

 

[varonica]

PvP is consensual. You consent when you select ”Open”. Again, I am saying this as someone who does not PvP much if at all.


And you do not have to as there is solo and PG. Isn’t it great that we have all these different modes that suit different players?

It is great yes, but people keep wanting to penalise other players who play in solo to somehow encourage them to play in Open so they can be ganker fodder. Funny how the world is!

 

[[VR] James Constantine]

Certainly not because it's realistic (it's not), but it's literally the best flight model of all the existing space games atm.

You still haven't answered my question - why is it preferred? And of course it's not 'realistic', it's both science fiction and is limited by practical limitations of a game, but how does it differ from NMS?

 

[CMDR Flavius Funk]

It was just an idea.

Myself, I also stay in Solo for the relative tranquility. So no change would work on me either.

So you stay in solo... But make a thread about luring people to play open.

I think you made some fresh popcorn before you started the thread.

 

[Dack Janiels]

Don't need to imagine mate, it's my daily experience in elite - most of my ships don't even have guns because I play solo which saves a helluva lot of credits and time in engineering.

it is your choice and it's fair,
but I mean someone is surprised that someone else is shooting in a game with guns and ships using normal game mechanics and calls it 'psyhopathic'

 

[[VR] Orodruin]

It is great yes, but people keep wanting to penalise other players who play in solo to somehow encourage them to play in Open so they can be ganker fodder. Funny how the world is!

There are a lot of people screaming things are unfair for different reasons (too little punishment for ganks, unfair to allow bgs in solo, too little cannon fodder in open, etc etc). I can’t say I agree with any of them at the same time as they might have a point many times. Ultimately, what we have are three game modes sharing the same galaxy for better or worse. At this point it is not really changeable as changing something in favour of one group would typically take away something from another group.

 

[[VR] James Constantine]

At this point it is not really changeable as changing something in favour of one group would typically take away something from another group.

That's probably the truth of the matter. ED is a sandbox in that it can be played differently according to taste and changing the mechanics could irreparably damage the game at this stage. I would say, I've found this thread interesting in so far that some are so ingrained in their way of viewing the game that they appear incapable of understanding that others may have a different way of doing so, and it's probably important to be reminded every now and then that such people exist.

 

[galahad2069]

You still haven't answered my question - why is it preferred? And of course it's not 'realistic', it's both science fiction and is limited by practical limitations of a game, but how does it differ from NMS?

Do you seriously want me to write a comparative study of the flight models implemented by certain space games? What does it have to do with the topic of the thread?

 

[Dack Janiels]

You still haven't answered my question - why is it preferred? And of course it's not 'realistic', it's both science fiction and is limited by practical limitations of a game, but how does it differ from NMS?

In arcade space flight games, the rewards for the player were the visuals, the simulated battle, the explosions, the feeling of power in controlling a fast, armed spaceship. Therefore, controls were simplified, gameplay was often projected/reduced to one or two dimensions, and making the virtual spaceship move was hardly more complicated than moving a cursor on a computer.
However, much of the reward of flying semi-sim games like ED comes from mastering the controls of the spaceship so as to make complicated, difficult maneuvers more intuitive, so as to exploit the unique freedom that an spaceship provides. Therefore, semi sim space games had more complicated controls that worked more and more similarly to the controls of real aircraft.
What are the trade-offs between realism and ease of gameplay? For different kinds of games, what are the advantages and disadvantages of a simplified or a realistic flight control model? The answer to these questions should reveal much about why flight games are made the way they are, and about the values of different places in the realism spectrum.

 

[CMDR-ss47ply]

only thing broken in elite is multi player mode solo works just fine my only complaint is rocks popping in when I am flying

 

[PureEvilPie]

I don't know where you get your information, but that might not be true at all.

I and many others play ED solo, because that is how we want to enjoy our games.
Personally I just don't want to engage with others whatsoever, not in PvP, not in coöp.
I am even disgusted with the MMO pollution I encounter in the solo game, like the names of first discoverers, all these fleet carriers that clog up some systems, and the general influence others have on my game. I would like to play in a pristine ED universe, and wipe all other influences off the face of the galaxy.

I own many games with multiplayer components, like Wildlands, all the Unreal Tournament games, all the quake and doom games, several Call of Duty games, the Division games etc.etc. Never have I even considered doing anything multiplayer in these games.

There is nothing that could seduce me to do multiplayer in Elite.
I would however pay a large amount of extra money for a separately developed, offline, moddable single player version.
That would be my dream Elite game.


I am very much against that. Open should be truly open and free.
Not constricted by unnatural rules and artificial punishments.
In real life unarmed victims are not protected by magic either.
It would be ridiculous to see this happen in ED.
There are enough problems with the Crime and Punishment system of Elite as it is now.

It sounds like you want to play X4

 

[[VR] James Constantine]

In arcade space flight games, the rewards for the player were the visuals, the simulated battle, the explosions, the feeling of power in controlling a fast, armed spaceship. Therefore, controls were simplified, gameplay was often projected/reduced to one or two dimensions, and making the virtual spaceship move was hardly more complicated than moving a cursor on a computer.
However, much of the reward of flying semi-sim games like ED comes from mastering the controls of the spaceship so as to make complicated, difficult maneuvers more intuitive, so as to exploit the unique freedom that an spaceship provides. Therefore, semi sim space games had more complicated controls that worked more and more similarly to the controls of real aircraft.
What are the trade-offs between realism and ease of gameplay? For different kinds of games, what are the advantages and disadvantages of a simplified or a realistic flight control model? The answer to these questions should reveal much about why flight games are made the way they are, and about the values of different places in the realism spectrum.

Exactly, but it was galahad2069 I wanted to address the question - the reason why ED is preferred to NMS by many is that it uses a more realistic model than the latter, which galahad2069 was desperately attempting not to concede because it would contradict what he was arguing about it not being realistic. Of course it is not completely realistic, as you said yourself there's always trade-offs, but ultimately one of the key attractions of the game is that it affords greater realism than many in it's genre, further underlined by it's often fanatical VR community, and I never suggested it was or had to be completely realistic - that was just a straw man argument.

Which brings one back to the question of PVP and ganking, which in open is at a level that would not be terribly realistic and I personally would prefer if it was reigned in a bit. Of course, there are those for whom PVP is a very important part of the game for them and I appriciate this also, which is why I suspect the open-solo model is probably the best trade off available.

 

[Dack Janiels]

Aircraft physics are completely unrealistic in space, as are supercruise and hyperjumps. A more complex game does not make it realistic

 

[[VR] James Constantine]

Aircraft physics are completely unrealistic in space, as are supercruise and hyperjumps. A more complex game does not make it realistic

Supercruise and hyperjumps are pure science fiction, so naturally they're not realistic, because they're not actually real.

As for aircraft physics, ED doesn't actually implement them. It implements a pseudo form where thrusters automatically counteract movement, but if you want Newtonian physics, then just switch off FA.

 

[Dack Janiels]

Supercruise and hyperjumps are pure science fiction, so naturally they're not realistic, because they're not actually real.

As for aircraft physics, ED doesn't actually implement them. It implements a pseudo form where thrusters automatically counteract movement, but if you want Newtonian physics, then just switch off FA.

When writing aircraft phycisc, I simplified it. I don't mean MFS in space.