A simple fix [semi fix] to combat logging!

[MarcinKsi]

If a duplicate NPC was created and it were to be destroyed, what would happen to the player whose ship had been cloned due to disconnection? If combat bonds or bounties were to be collected on the destruction of the cloned NPC then it would be exploitable. If the player were to log in to find their ship destroyed, it would also be exploitable.

ok got you point,

but let Frontier know that we will not forget about it

this sound good though if combat log locks you out of open for a certain amount of time, each time the amount gets progressively longer (and ramps up quickly - ie: doesn't punish those for long who just have an unfortunately disconnect, but if it happens 2-3 times, you get locked out for a loooong time).

 

[Robert Maynard]

ok got you point,

but let Frontier know that we will not forget about it

this sound good though if combat log locks you out of open for a certain amount of time, each time the amount gets progressively longer (and ramps up quickly - ie: doesn't punish those for long who just have an unfortunately disconnect, but if it happens 2-3 times, you get locked out for a loooong time).

I'm sure that Frontier are more than aware of the game-affecting nature of Combat Logging.

Hopefully something like the proposal that Agony_Aunt made above will make it into the game.

 

[Derath]

If a duplicate NPC was created and it were to be destroyed, what would happen to the player whose ship had been cloned due to disconnection? If combat bonds or bounties were to be collected on the destruction of the cloned NPC then it would be exploitable. If the player were to log in to find their ship destroyed, it would also be exploitable.

Exploitable but better for the person being combat logged on is an improvement, bounties are already capped because they got exploited even without something like this and duplicate cargo would actually generate less income than just doing one of the money printers properly.

It isn't a perfect solution but its not bad

 

[Luniticisi]

Here is a solution that could work (if it was possible to implement) ..and I am not including the 15 second time-out as that is by design..

If the game registers an unintended/illegal log out (the game seems to know when it crashes so that wouldn't count)
The player takes a 1% drop in reputation across the board .. so players that have unintended infrequent router drops only lose a minor, easily built back amount of rep, while persistent combat loggers could find themselves in negative rep with everyone over time.

I know this is a silly idea .. but it's just a thought.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Exploitable but better for the person being combat logged on is an improvement, bounties are already capped because they got exploited even without something like this and duplicate cargo would actually generate less income than just doing one of the money printers properly.

It isn't a perfect solution but its not bad

I would opine that introducing exploitable game features is bad for the game in general.

A Wing of player-hunters could easily all block the IP address(es) of the other player(s) in their instance - their game clients would all "agree" that the other players had "disconnected" and clone them as NPCs.

 

[Siobhan]

Exploitable but better for the person being combat logged on is an improvement, bounties are already capped because they got exploited even without something like this and duplicate cargo would actually generate less income than just doing one of the money printers properly.

It isn't a perfect solution but its not bad

Why does everything always have to be better for the griefer aggressor in these situations?

Where are the solutions for the victim, like a control to High Wake to the nearest available system rather than having to go to left panel, scroll, and select, then jump?
Where is the sensor scrambler mine?
Where is the "Mayday, I am under attack, offering $AMOUNT to anyone who get's these pirates off my back before they kill me" button...?

It's always got to be balanced in favour of the Pro-Bro club, who actually, are also the most prone to combat logging when things turn against them... which might of course be why they only attack weaker looking Commanders.

 

[Derath]

I would opine that introducing exploitable game features is bad for the game in general.

A Wing of player-hunters could easily all block the IP address(es) of the other player(s) in their instance - their game clients would all "agree" that the other players had "disconnected" and clone them as NPCs.

For which they would gain what? They deliberately set their routers up with some daft system so that they could claim a capped bounty on one player? A wing of player hunters that deliberately change players to NPC's doesn't sound like a wing of player hunters to me

Robigo mode switching for missions is 10x the exploit this would ever be because there has to be a palpable reason for somebody to exploit not just the potential.

 

[MarcinKsi]

I would opine that introducing exploitable game features is bad for the game in general.

A Wing of player-hunters could easily all block the IP address(es) of the other player(s) in their instance - their game clients would all "agree" that the other players had "disconnected" and clone them as NPCs.

totally agree, that may create more problems then profits.

Agony_Aunt idea sound good, and I think is the only idea I've seen that actually might work, and shouldn't be so hard to implement. +1

 

[Robert Maynard]

For which they would gain what? They deliberately set their routers up with some daft system so that they could claim a capped bounty on one player? A wing of player hunters that deliberately change players to NPC's doesn't sound like a wing of player hunters to me

Robigo mode switching for missions is 10x the exploit this would ever be because there has to be a palpable reason for somebody to exploit not just the potential.

Who knows the motivations of some players? Especially if the outcome of the interaction with the cloned NPC had any effect on the player whose ship was cloned.

With luck, mode switching to refresh the mission boards will be dealt with at some point.

 

[Dave1235]

Most of it is players taking matters into their own hands (snip).

If they want to take matters into their own hands they should form a pvp private group where they can kick cl,ers and not have to play with them.
Might be a shortage of traders in a pvp group but that shouldn't matter to proper pvpers.

 

[Derath]

Why does everything always have to be better for the griefer aggressor in these situations?

I said the person being combat logged on, i made no mention of aggressors.

Like everything you write is so jaded and antagonist without any experience of the problem at all why do you even post? I understand when changes to the modes comes up and people want them to remain the same but the current topic is completely unrelated to mode switching and is just about a bone being thrown to people who genuinely have to deal with cheaters on a day to day basis.

There is a hotkey for high wake its called select next system in route you just have to prime it first, its one of the many safety nets available for all of us, not just traders if you take the time to learn them.

As to weaker commanders you literally cannot do anything to stronger ones, If I get interdicted by a python in my corvette I will completely ignore him, submit and low wake your target has to be effectively in the same ship or worse, you cannot have any effect on them otherwise, don't blame the players for that they didn't design the game.

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If they want to take matters into their own hands they should form a pvp private group where they can kick cl,ers and not have to play with them.
Might be a shortage of traders in a pvp group but that shouldn't matter to proper pvpers.

Has been raised before, but is basically saying FD won't ban cheaters, do you do it for us in your own group, would take a considerable amount of effort to get enough players in one group for it to be relevant as unlike mobius it is directly related to player numbers, and would require constant policing etc.

Its not impossible, but that sounds an awful lot like a job to me i'm not surprised nobodies volunteered to do it

 

[Derath]

Who knows the motivations of some players? Especially if the outcome of the interaction with the cloned NPC had any effect on the player whose ship was cloned.

I really wasn't advocating it having any effect on players as that is liable to be exploited, just that for myself when I was having to deal with getting combat logged on constantly i'd have taken an NPC version with some cargo to take even if had no impact on the player that logged at all, at its worst i'd take ~ 50-100k worth of hull damage per interdiction to have a target instantly disappear sometimes with some charming abuse just before.
som

 

[Siobhan]

As to weaker commanders you literally cannot do anything to stronger ones, If I get interdicted by a python in my corvette I will completely ignore him, submit and low wake your target has to be effectively in the same ship or worse, you cannot have any effect on them otherwise, don't blame the players for that they didn't design the game.

so um... let's get this straight...

Cowardice (i.e. bullying) == Good
Living to fight another day (i.e. Sir Robining) == Bad

Yes, you can select next system, but unless this is the last system in the route, the chances of being interdicted by a player in the first place are like 2% (maybe 10% for an NPC)... Of course if you hand round the star working on your tan while pouring yourself another drink, the chances increase somewhat. If it IS the last system, then there won't be a next system to inst-jump to, so your point is moot.

Can we not do the "You can't do anything against stronger Commanders so you have to club noobs", because down that path lies the "ignore" button, and usually, you post a lot that I like to read.

 

[Loetmichel]

To be honest: I like the thought that i cause irritation and rage should i log out using the 15 sec timer whenever i get attacked by a vast superior ship/wing "for the lols" without a single line of RP.

IT sthe only way the victims of such Ganking CAN retaliate atm. Because the game itself dont have any repercussions to that kind of "gameplay".

Yes, i know i can always highwake. And i _do_ highwake ( or fight to the end ) if i am attacked by some "honoranble" commander who RPs it a bit or at least trys top make it somewhat even combat.

I short: i like that FD gives us the chance ( by 15sec-graceful loggong ) to send a message to the ats that do ganking and griefing.

 

[Nim Rodel]

Just a friendly reminder that CL equally affects PP, which is FD's current implementation for justifiable PVP. So it's not just a question of griefers and their victims. ENEMY commanders come into our CAPITAL, and harass our fortifiers. Then, when we respond with combat wings, they log.

The 15 second "graceful" log-off-ski has been justified in the past as being roughly equivalent to high-waking, never mind the existence of the Wake Scanner. But with the inclusion of modifications like the FSD Mine (Shift Lock Cannister), high-waking is no longer guaranteed get out of jail free card. So the equivalence of the "graceful" log-off-ski to high-waking is slipping.

I support the idea of making mode-change only available while docked.

Nim

 

[tawittle]

Only PvPers understand how toxic combat logging is. You could patrol a system for 4 hours, and find 6 people in that time. You might easily get 4 or 5 combat logs just from those 6. That's how common combat logging is. FD acts like combat logging is not an issue and they don't punish anyone for it....combat logging is obviously here to stay, FD has given combat loggers their stamp of approval.

i didn't bother reading the replies but I already know most of them are defending the combat loggers.

there are two types of open players...the kind that stay in open an the kind that run to solo when they they get attacked

as for combat logging, it's here to stay. As long as FD's attitude is to never punish combat logging, combat logging will never go away.

When there is no penalty for combat logging, no wonder so many players combat log to save their credits.

 

[Dave1235]

(Snip)
Has been raised before, but is basically saying FD won't ban cheaters, do you do it for us in your own group, would take a considerable amount of effort to get enough players in one group for it to be relevant as unlike mobius it is directly related to player numbers, and would require constant policing etc.

Its not impossible, but that sounds an awful lot like a job to me i'm not surprised nobodies volunteered to do it

I don't think its that fd dont want to ban combat loggers. More that they need some level of certainty that its deliberate and they have to collect data over time to form that conclusion.
All any pvp combat logger with half a brain needs to do is cl against ai and in solo mode / pg too. Its not rocket science.

Surely its worth the effort to run a pvp private group if it removes this thing that annoys so many pvpers.
Would appear its not as much of an issue as people make out if they wont even try because its too much hard work.

As I said in a previous post all these problems but i dont see solo players complaining about solo.
Nor group members about groups unless they are pve groups that open pvp people cant stay out of.
All the recent problems relate to open.
Perhaps fd should remove it until they can fix it. Or just remove it and let people make their own pvp and pirating private groups just like the pve player's had to.

 

[Alex Brentnall]

Flies out exploring in Open. Gets 5000Ly out and realises I'm in the wrong mode for High-Res screenshots.
Flies back.
Flies 15,000Ly out in solo.
Gets a fuel rat signal.
Can't switch to rescue client.

Would work in the bubble but there's too many repercussions of this to implement it in general imho.

 

[Derath]

Surely its worth the effort to run a pvp private group if it removes this thing that annoys so many pvpers.
Would appear its not as much of an issue as people make out if they wont even try because its too much hard work.

As I said in a previous post all these problems but i dont see solo players complaining about solo.
Nor group members about groups unless they are pve groups that open pvp people cant stay out of.
All the recent problems relate to open.
Perhaps fd should remove it until they can fix it. Or just remove it and let people make their own pvp and pirating private groups just like the pve player's had to.

The thing is its just a more complicated version of a PvE group as a PvE group is the simplest group you can make, but I think you make good points if they won't support it properly they probably should remove it but then I also think the PvE players shouldn't have had to create their own group either. I think its ridiculous that a group with the number of players that Mobius has isn't just an official option, the demand is obviously there.

Though of course if the players do it for them why bother wasting time developing for it?

 

[Dave1235]

To be honest: I like the thought that i cause irritation and rage should i log out using the 15 sec timer whenever i get attacked by a vast superior ship/wing "for the lols" without a single line of RP.

IT sthe only way the victims of such Ganking CAN retaliate atm. Because the game itself dont have any repercussions to that kind of "gameplay".
(Snip).

/naughty hat on

Lol. I see a fun game in the making using the legal logout timer.

Just need some chat macro, s.
"Thanks for interdicting me, I was so immersed I didnt realise it was so late already. Have a nice evening, goodnight see you around"
Lol that will really annoy the people that dont understand the difference between combat logging and a graceful exit as stated by Sandro