About DRM and the need to connect to the internet

I apologise if this sounds aggressive. It's not my intent, but I'm still having my first coffee of the day. :)
About the DRM: the way I always understood the DRM-free media offer was that the actual physical media would be free of DRM so they can be copied and backed up. I never understood that to mean that I could run my own server and/or play entirely offline.

To be fair to those affected, FD did say the above, they said it would connect to authenticate only when you played multiplayer online.
 
I must admit what most interests me at present is how often we will need to connect. I have a new job starting soon that will require me to be in hotel rooms a lot. Most hotels foolishly don't bundle free internet with the rooms (note to hotel owners - offer a business rate that includes internet, so that customers don't need to justify internet on expenses, just room), so if I installed Elite on my laptop I'd be very happy if I only had to connect once a week, reasonably happy if I had to connect once a day (I'm sure I could find some free internet somewhere), and playing something else if I had to connect every few minutes.
 
FD need to email everyone who has pre-ordered the game from their store to explain the new no-offline play limitation and explain the fast-track refund process to all who want it. They need to do it this week, because their Christmas timed release date means many will need the money back to replace planned presents.

FD do not want to be a story in the mainstream press about the company who cancelled the children's Christmas.
 
FD need to email everyone who has pre-ordered the game from their store to explain the new no-offline play limitation and explain the fast-track refund process to all who want it. They need to do it this week, because their Christmas timed release date means many will need the money back to replace planned presents.

FD do not want to be a story in the mainstream press about the company who cancelled the children's Christmas.

I asked Michael Brookes outright on the 'no offline' thread if they would sticky the decision, the rationale and the refund process for Store Buyers, in the Updates forum and he disappeared. Giving him the benefit of the doubt, he may need to speak to people to find all that out come the start of the working week (as it was a Saturday morning when I asked him) but I'd certainly expect such a post from FD on Monday or people are going to think the worst.
 
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As you say, it was Saturday, it's not even been 48hrs since the announcement, almost all of those hours have been "out of office" so I think some slack must be cut, MB certainly has to discuss stuff with DB, legal, finance etc. It's going to take time, time that's in short supply given they have B3.9 then gamma then a launch party. I'm not sure they'll get round to it until after gamma's settled.
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Let's not break out the pitchforks and torches just yet.
 
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As you say, it was Saturday, it's not even been 48hrs since the announcement, almost all of those hours have been "out of office" so I think some slack must be cut, MB certainly has to discuss stuff with DB, legal, finance etc. It's going to take time, time that's in short supply given they have B3.9 then gamma then a launch party. I'm not sure they'll get round to it until after gamma's settled.
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Let's not break out the pitchforks and torches just yet.
I agree we need to wait til Monday at this point. However, all this should have been part of their original announcement.

Closer to topic: DRM. A competent lawyer might ask FD, "Why did you state that the disc would be DRM-free? What was the point of that? Was it not soley to tell potential backers that they would be able to play the game on it without having to connect via internet to your servers and authenticate? Was this not to make the reward seem more attractive, to encourage pledges? So how in requiring those backers to connect via internet and authenticate are you not failing to deliver that reward as you described it?"

If that flies it does so for every backer who pledged to that level and above.
 
A quote from the kickstarter campaign.....

Pledge £60 or more

374 backers

Physical DRM-free boxed edition of "Elite: Dangerous" plus all rewards above (please note: the disc in the pack is simply an alternative way to install the game - it will have the same online account code whether installed off disc or downloaded digitally).

So I expect to get a DRM-Free version of the game because that is what I bought according to the advertised offer.

Sale Of Goods Act 1979 (UK).... http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1979/54


[EDIT]Just to add. I feel this has opened up a huge can of worms for FD. However, it would be nice if FD could clarify the situation for everyone.
 
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Yes, they should have planned the mechanism for dealing with this and any legalities BEFORE the announcement. The decision may have technical merit but the management is incredibly weak.
 
Of course this is DRM and as such a violation of what was stated and what we funded. Give us the means to run private Servers with no central authentication, then it is DRM free. As long as there is only the possibility to play on Servers not under my control, there is DRM. No external service required to verify that I have the right to play my bought product, that is the definition of no DRM!
 
A quote from the kickstarter campaign.....



So I expect to get a DRM-Free version of the game because that is what I bought according to the advertised offer.

Sale Of Goods Act 1979 (UK).... http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1979/54


[EDIT]Just to add. I feel this has opened up a huge can of worms for FD. However, it would be nice if FD could clarify the situation for everyone.

Kickstarter clauses

"There may be changes or delays, and there’s a chance something could happen that prevents the creator from being able to finish the project as promised. "

"If a creator is unable to complete their project and fulfill rewards, they’ve failed to live up to the basic obligations of this agreement. To right this, they must make every reasonable effort to find another way of bringing the project to the best possible conclusion for backers. A creator in this position has only remedied the situation and met their obligations to backers if:

They post an update that explains what work has been done, how funds were used, and what prevents them from finishing the project as planned; tick

They offer to return any remaining funds to backers who have not received their reward (in proportion to the amounts pledged), or else explain how those funds will be used to complete the project in some alternate form. tick

I could go on to explain that development over years since the initial design can and will always lead to changes in a product and that this clause was stated on the kickstarter itself but i'm sure you understand that fact.
 
That only applies to entirely failed projects, SuBSynk. This is not a failed project, furthermore, backer reward tiers are now legally binding after a precedent case brought in New York relating to some decks of playing cards of some kind (I can't remember the exact name of the damn things, but it was some custom design and the creators didn't come through on it), as a result, if a promise is placed in the reward tier of such and such, and the project comes to fruition, which this one has, then the creator is legally obligated to fulfil the backer promises. In this case - the DRM free copy of the game. If they cannot deliver a DRM free copy, they're opened up to having to return the kickstarter funds.
 
It is NOT a DRM. Elite needs the access to the database. This as as dumb as whining because you couldn't access online ressources while being disconnected from the internet on purpose.
 
That only applies to entirely failed projects, SuBSynk. This is not a failed project, furthermore, backer reward tiers are now legally binding after a precedent case brought in New York relating to some decks of playing cards of some kind (I can't remember the exact name of the damn things, but it was some custom design and the creators didn't come through on it), as a result, if a promise is placed in the reward tier of such and such, and the project comes to fruition, which this one has, then the creator is legally obligated to fulfil the backer promises. In this case - the DRM free copy of the game. If they cannot deliver a DRM free copy, they're opened up to having to return the kickstarter funds.

You know people also live outside of the US right?
 
I don't think the need to be connected to the internet is the same as DRM

You are factually incorrect here.

DRM, digital rights management, is any post-sale control on the use of digital media/content.

If I install FF on a machine without internet access, I cannot access web pages, I cannot look at the latest stock prices, news, check my email etc.

Firefox can access web pages that are stored offline. Obviously, it cannot access data stored somewhere you do not have a connection to, but Mozilla isn't responsible for your connection.

Frontier Developments is wholly responsible for the authentication/save servers Elite Dangerous tries to connect to and the information stored on them. This connection and this data are required to play the game, and this is the form of DRM they have chosen to control access.

My understanding is that ED can be installed on any machine, but you are only allowed one connection per user to FD's servers for stock prices, news, messages, match making. If you don't have an internet connection then you can't access that information and the software doesn't work because of a lack of that information, not because DRM.

Not including a local source of this information is a form of DRM in and of itself. Frontier Developments has deliberately separated the game client from the game hosts/storage to retain control of how content is used. This is what DRM is.

I suppose FD could make this really beyond doubt by making the tutorials available without an internet connection. Then there would be no question over the DRM.

The game would be obviously, and factually, limited by DRM if any single player content remained inaccessible without the need to connect to Frontier servers.

There is no reason beyond the desire for control, that the entire game, minus the content intrinsically dependent on other players, not be available off-line. There is no reason, beyond the desire for control, that other players could not connect to a host of their choice, rather than Frontier's official servers.

Any implementation of this control on digital media is DRM, by definition.

I agree with you, it isn't DRM, it needs to connect to the servers to actually work.

You do not know what DRM is.

I'm amazed that all the vocalists can complain about lack of offline mode on an online forum.

I assure you, I am equally amazed that you can confuse my desire to participate in an on-line discussion with my desire to control how I use a completely different product which I have paid for.

I wish people would just take the time to find out what something is, and what it isn't, before throwing terms around. It's not DRM. Why you may ask....
This is why https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_rights_management
Google for god's sake.

Go back and read the article you've linked to, and try to comprehend it this time.

Anyway, how can you be so sure this is the only thing that's going on across ED's entire server infrastructure? In fact, how are you even sure that the front-end boxes we see are the only servers in use? For all we know there could be half a dozen very big number crunchers behind the front-end. Has FD given us info on their exact infrastructure?

It's quite easy to look at what is being sent to and from one's system.

The background simulation could quite easily swamp a PC (just think of the volume of work and the fact that most graph algorithms tend to be expensive). Most gaming PCs are better on a thread-by-thread basis compared to servers, but you don't often find 256 threads of execution on a PC. Simulation problems like this one are great for massively parallel architectures, and PCs can't do this stuff and push vectors to the GPU at the same time.

My point is: we're all speculating.

No, we are not speculating.

In online-Solo play the amount of data that is being sent back and forth between my system and any ED related server is miniscule. It took more bandwith to run a Doom 2 server for a single person on my LAN in 1994.
There is no significant background simulation going on, and there is no reason why the server could not be run locally, in tandem with the client, with trivial levels of overhead.
Even when the "background simulation" is complete, it is something that could easily be emulated, again with trivial difficulty/overhead. We know this because other titles have been doing it for decades, including some of this game's predecessors.

About the DRM: the way I always understood the DRM-free media offer was that the actual physical media would be free of DRM so they can be copied and backed up. I never understood that to mean that I could run my own server and/or play entirely offline.

Then your understanding was incomplete. Lack of DRM implies far more than a lack of copy protection on client-side media.
 
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"Pledge £60 or more

374 backers

Physical DRM-free boxed edition of "Elite: Dangerous" plus all rewards above (please note: the disc in the pack is simply an alternative way to install the game - it will have the same online account code whether installed off disc or downloaded digitally). "

That confuses me a little. If its DRM free then does the "online account code" contradict it? If it doesn't then does that mean the game will indeed be DRM free because it will use the account code for authentication? If it does, then people knowingly backed a DRM free edition that required authentication? ..... I need a coffee.
 
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Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
That confuses me a little. If its DRM free then does the "online account code" contradict it? If it doesn't then does that mean the game will indeed be DRM free because it will use the account code for authentication? If it does, then people knowingly backed a DRM free edition that required authentication? ..... I need a coffee.

Indeed - the FAQ answer adds more mud to the water:

Elite Dangerous Kickstarter FAQ said:
▻ Will the game be DRM-free?

Yes, the game code will not include DRM (Digital Rights Management), but there will be server authentication when you connect for multiplayer and/or updates and to synchronise with the server.

Last updated: Mon, Dec 10 2012 11:54 AM +00:00
 
Conflict arises because the backers at that time were promised solo offline play, therefore no login and Drm free for that mode.

Now they have removed this there is a conflict with stated reward. It is these impacts that seem ill thought out.

"Pledge £60 or more

374 backers

Physical DRM-free boxed edition of "Elite: Dangerous" plus all rewards above (please note: the disc in the pack is simply an alternative way to install the game - it will have the same online account code whether installed off disc or downloaded digitally). "

That confuses me a little. If its DRM free then does the "online account code" contradict it? If it doesn't then does that mean the game will indeed be DRM free because it will use the account code for authentication? If it does, then people knowingly backed a DRM free edition that required authentication? ..... I need a coffee.
 
You know people also live outside of the US right?

You're perhaps missing the point. Ever since then Kickstarter adjusted their terms and conditions such that every project's tier rewards are deemed legally binding, regardless of where the creator or the backers are. Failing to deliver on them opens up them up to legal repercussions, depending on consumer protection laws and various other elements.

TLDR : What pibbles just above me said. Before the announcement - offline solo was promised, so there was no problem. With the removal of offline, it creates a conflict in the reward and the state of the game. That's going to be an issue, potentially a very significant one because anyone over the £60 mark now can turn around and demand a remedy. I am GUESSING the online account code was for online solo / online multiplayer (so you could register and set up your online persistent commander for all that galaxy goodness).
 
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Ok I get it now. Then in my mind they should offer refunds to those backers because clearly there is no way to play the game without authentication.
 
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