After looking at the new beta, I have a few comments. It is time for serious discussion AND the DEVS to listen to us.

[Agony_Aunt]

Care to point out where I said anyone that disgrees with me is wrong? From this...

People who are gamers recognize the flaws, those people that aren't gamers don't get it.

Ok, let's try. You have basically said that gamers recognize the flaws, non gamers don't. So basically anyone who doesn't see the flaws is automatically wrong. You are saying you see flaws, you are a gamer. If someone disagrees that there are flaws, then they are automatically not a gamer(!!!!) and therefore not able to evaluate the game, and therefore, in your eyes, wrong.

Do you see it now?

How on earth do you expect to have an open and honest discussion if you are going to dismiss the opinion of those who disagree with you?

 

[Astirian]

That's not true, but what is true is that 99% of player made content is dire and god awful... In fact it is so bad, I would rather have hot pokers rammed where the sun doesn't shine than use player made content.

Yeah it's so dangerous (hah!). You end up with stuff like "hi hero u must go to teh dungen of sauron and kill the monseters", God forbid you should go to said legal-action-baiting dungeon and find a round room with 26 identical mini-bosses.

Curating doesn't work unless the devs do it (but even then, look at the mobile app stores *shudder*). And adding a scenario creation tool would be an insanely huge amount of work in a game like Elite. I imagine you'd need a very comprehensive UI or some sort of external studio tool.

 

[lenna]

he sad he's speaking for most playerbase. With 5.000 people playing this regularly and 890.000 not playing, it's safe to presume he's speaking for majority. If 890.000 would be entertained playing the game, then they would be playing. But they're not.

As it stands, around 1 million of people bought the game and spent money on it and helped finance it, just so you can play it.

That is false reasoning for numerous reasons including the fact that the Steam statistics only collects usage for instances of the game being actually run under the Steam client and Steam is not required for the game to work. Not only that but, also the Steam statististics only counts concurrent users (not the number of users) and most of us can not play any game 24/7/52. On top of that, there is also MANY reasons why people stop playing games and not all of them are related to how they perceive the game.

Deriving popularity conclusions from Steam statistics is making far too many assumptions and in general the Steam statistics are worth absolutely nothing in this kind of discussion.

 

[Taluss]

No? How do you think player factions in the game uphold their systems and expand into other systems? Everything you do in the game has an effect on the BGS. Everything.

The problem is while people are making a difference they don't FEEL like it it does. Without feedback mechanisms peoples effort starts to feel wasted, this leads to boredom and abandoning the game. So a Background simulation without immediate feedback mechanisms is ultimately unsatisifying not matter how clever the Simulation is.

 

[Aio]

That's not true, but what is true is that 99% of player made content is dire and god awful... In fact it is so bad, I would rather have hot pokers rammed where the sun doesn't shine than use player made content.

Oh, I must have missed something. Please enlighten me on what content is player generated... Even if it sucks

 

[crushdepth]

You don't get to choose the replies. Elite isn't boring.

Yes it is. Beautiful, but boring. And with a storyline that sets a new standard in glacial slowness.

 

[Alec Turner]

Oh, I must have missed something. Please enlighten me on what content is player generated... Even if it sucks

Fuel Rats and Buckyball Racing Club to name two very dear to my heart. And neither of them suck!

 

[Aio]

Fuel Rats and Buckyball Racing Club to name two very dear to my heart. And neither of them suck!

I agree that none of them suck But still this is not at all what I call support for player generated content. Both are just players saying "now i belong to this organisation and i will play in a certain way". That is supported in all game including pacman on c64 if you get my point. An example of simple support for player generated content would be the ability to build something like an outpost that is persistent and visible to all players and could be used by other players. Now this kind of activities is in complete control of FD.

 

[Pyrobee]

I agree that none of them suck But still this is not at all what I call support for player generated content. Both are just players saying "now i belong to this organisation and i will play in a certain way". That is supported in all game including pacman on c64 if you get my point. An example of simple support for player generated content would be the ability to build something like an outpost that is persistent and visible to all players and could be used by other players. Now this kind of activities is in complete control of FD.

FD have already said that they don't want player owned outposts as it wouldn't fit in with the BGS. You can have a player faction introduced in the game and use the BGS to get them in control of stations/outposts.

 

[Commander Abs Monster]

Whilst I agree there could be more stuff on planets, I would say we know that is coming. However, David Braben has said he wants to take time and do that right. We will eventually get more planetary landings.

However, generally I am very happy with the game.

 

[Aio]

FD have already said that they don't want player owned outposts as it wouldn't fit in with the BGS. You can have a player faction introduced in the game and use the BGS to get them in control of stations/outposts.

I know that FD wants the control but I think that is the main problem. I understand that others have a different opinion about this.

 

[iFred]

FD have already said that they don't want player owned outposts as it wouldn't fit in with the BGS. You can have a player faction introduced in the game and use the BGS to get them in control of stations/outposts.

This is one of the half-baked things we have in Elite!

Why isnt there a connection between the player and the players faction..

- players are not even marked as active members of that faction
- even when a facton expands into new systems - nobody cares
- only the NPCs are connected to the faction
- cant do anything with station ownership
- no real economy

and so on... i have 1000 other cons of this implementation, but I dont want to derail the thread.

BGS-Playing is BORING and theres is NOTHING to achieve for the players. Nothing. And that´s why it´s useless.

 

[Jex =TE=]

Oh my God yes. We will *never* get that in Elite though. Which is probably fine. I just find it funny imagining Star Wars or Star Trek scenes but they keep dropping out of Hyperspace/Warp every 30 seconds. Then they all get frustrated like ya do when you're mid-sentence and the overly loud GPS in the car interrupts you.

LMAO - god could you imagine either film using ED's jump mechanic - that right there is proof of a boring mechanic!

 

[fademist]

I know that FD wants the control but I think that is the main problem. I understand that others have a different opinion about this.

doesnt mean we or they r right

 

[Jex =TE=]

But then, the counter argument would be, but that is the choices you make and the consequences of those choices.

There are no consequences in a game you can be everything at the same time and suffer no punishment for because you aren't even part of the universe you're playing in.

 

[Jex =TE=]

Ok, let's try. You have basically said that gamers recognize the flaws, non gamers don't. So basically anyone who doesn't see the flaws is automatically wrong. You are saying you see flaws, you are a gamer. If someone disagrees that there are flaws, then they are automatically not a gamer(!!!!) and therefore not able to evaluate the game, and therefore, in your eyes, wrong.

Do you see it now?

How on earth do you expect to have an open and honest discussion if you are going to dismiss the opinion of those who disagree with you?

Because people who aren't gamers and haven't been paying attention for a few decades and aren't playing games as a gamer would do, so lots of games making it their main hobby are in a much better position to make judgements over those that either haven't been paying attention or don't game.

Just like in climate science where you have actual scientist who know what they're talking about and then idiots who think climate change is a scam because they're not informed. No saying people who don't game are idiots (climate deniers are imo), what I'm pointing out is that if you've played a ton of games over the years it gives you a massively different perspective over someone who's just picked up and only plays and has ever played Elite.

Sorry, those people, as far as gaming goes, don't know what they're talking about.

Additional: I can even give an example right here in ED by FDev themselves when they introduced Engineers and didn't give storage then made the excuse "we don't make MP games!!" no, they don't PLAY MP MMO's which is why they didn't have a clue when it came to The RNGineers. Who had to suffer their ignorance? Who couldn't change their ships because of the cargo they had? Who's spinning a roulette wheel and getting a worse result over the hours they put in trying to find the stuff to get a spin in the first place?

 

[Yodebe]

When I think back to how good the original Elite was, with it's 'rubbish' outline ships, and circle stars, the reason it worked was that it was a sandbox for your IMAGINATION.
Now, ED4 is mind-bogglingly brilliant for this, but maybe young people don't have any imagination any more (runs for cover! haha)
My own life in ED4 is running like a never ending movie, & there's plenty in my game that exists only in my imagination, which is superbly re-enforced & affected by the BGS & in-game features.

 

[Jex =TE=]

That is false reasoning for numerous reasons including the fact that the Steam statistics only collects usage for instances of the game being actually run under the Steam client and Steam is not required for the game to work. Not only that but, also the Steam statististics only counts concurrent users (not the number of users) and most of us can not play any game 24/7/52. On top of that, there is also MANY reasons why people stop playing games and not all of them are related to how they perceive the game.

Deriving popularity conclusions from Steam statistics is making far too many assumptions and in general the Steam statistics are worth absolutely nothing in this kind of discussion.

Not quite useless.

We can extrapolate percentage of users from steam and assume the same for the ED Client. As for concurrent users, check back to when it launched on steam if it goes back that far and you'll get a percentage of players difference (or no difference). You can also compare the concurrent usage with other games to see what percentage of the player base is on that and apply that against steam usage on ED.

To say those statistics are useless is just wrong.

 

[fademist]

Not quite useless.

We can extrapolate percentage of users from steam and assume the same for the ED Client. As for concurrent users, check back to when it launched on steam if it goes back that far and you'll get a percentage of players difference (or no difference). You can also compare the concurrent usage with other games to see what percentage of the player base is on that and apply that against steam usage on ED.

To say those statistics are useless is just wrong.

no they rnt useless but dont show the whole picture...

 

[Jex =TE=]

When I think back to how good the original Elite was, with it's 'rubbish' outline ships, and circle stars, the reason it worked was that it was a sandbox for your IMAGINATION.
Now, ED4 is mind-bogglingly brilliant for this, but maybe young people don't have any imagination any more (runs for cover! haha)
My own life in ED4 is running like a never ending movie, & there's plenty in my game that exists only in my imagination, which is superbly re-enforced & affected by the BGS & in-game features.

Nostalgia's a great thing, isn't it. Go download the original now and see if you can play it for a month.

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no they rnt useless but dont show the whole picture...

LOL no they don't but given no other data to use, that's the closest you're going to get to an answer.