Alien archeology and other mysteries: Thread 9 - The Canonn

[Erid]

HOWEVER:

I could be wrong about this:

MINUS OR POSITIVE?

If the rotation of PLANET is negative, Longitude is Negative; e.g. -111,1111

If the rotation of MOON is negative, Latitude is Negative, e.g. -29,0000

Most likely you have some right thoughts.
If moons rise in small circle and set in big - they move from left to right ( i don't know how moon moves in second ruins, need to clarify). This moveset can be seen from only one of the hemispheres. It's pretty obvious... if moon's theory works btw

But i don't like how you find coordinates.

 

[MadDogMurdock]

TL;DR

Any theory that predicts longitude is fundamentally flawed.
The longitude measurement on a planet is based on an arbitrary prime meridian.

Unless you can propose why the Guardians would use exactly the same zero longitude as the one we see in game then it canot be predicted.

 

[rizal72]

Okay guys, here's the deal. Important theory to read.

I think I know how the equation works - I think I have finally cracked it.

If you refer to my picture I posted several pages ago (see spoiler);

Spoiler

http://i.imgur.com/RHODpnm.png

I believe this is the route of all co-ordinates. It does involve the moon, but not how you may think.

Here is how the equation works - prepare.

Up until now, we have no had the true "meridian" in which to derive co-ordinates. However, if you've had a gander at my picture, you'll notice the light year placements I put in.

Longitude

Spoiler

483.53 light years is the distance between Synuefe ZL-J d10-119 and Synuefe XR-H D11-102. Let's round this off to 484, as the calculation difference is negligible - however, I do use the proper maths below to show my working, and in the picture chart in the spoiler - don't fear.

484 / 2 = 242
484 / 3 = 161.3333333333333
484 / 4 = 121
484 / 5 = 96.8
484 / 6 = 80.66666666666667
484 / 7 = 69.14285714285714
484 / 8 = 60.5
484 / 9 = 53.77777777777778
484 / 10 = 48.4
484 / 11 = 44
484 / 12 = 40.33333333333333
484 / 13 = 37.23076923076923
484 / 14 = 34.57142857142857
484 / 15 = 32.26666666666667
484 / 16 = 30.25

Latitude

Spoiler

Latitude is also worked out, but by adding all 3 nearby systems instead, not the 2 furthest away; by how many light years separate them. So, 58.01ly + 20.01ly + 38.05ly = 116.07ly. Now we have this, all we simply do is divide by 4 - because all Latitudes across all ruins are "seemingly" universal.

116.07 / 2 = 58.035
116.07 / 3 = 38.69
116.07 / 4 = 29.0175
116.07 / 5 = 23.214
116.07 / 6 = 19.345
116.07 / 7 = 16.58142857142857
116.07 / 8 = 14.50875

Therefore, let us now work out what Synuefe XR-H D11-102 1 B's co-ordinates are:


MINUS OR POSITIVE?

If the rotation of PLANET is negative, Longitude is Negative; e.g. -111,1111

If the rotation of MOON is negative, Latitude is Negative, e.g. -29,0000


Since 1 B and it's moon are both Negative in their Rotational Periods, both co-ordinates are set to (negative)(negative) -xx.xxxx.

Now here's the magic involved with Longitude:

Longitude Parallel System; Synuefe ZL-J d10-119: -120.8825 ([483.65ly /divide 4 = 120.8825])

Planet Rotation: +6.9

Moon Rotation: +0.9

Total Longitude: 128.6825

(This means the co-ordinate that is officially recorded, -128.9711, is within 0.2886 of 128.6825 in this calculation - that would mean right next to the ruins, if not right on top)


Now here's Latitude:

Universal Latitude Parallel; Synuefe XO-P c22-17 + IC 2391 Sector ZE-A d101 + IC 2391 Sector GW-V b2-4; otherwise known as; 58.01ly + 20.01ly + 38.05ly = 116.07ly / 4 = 29.0175

29.0175 is shared between all sites - now this is how the magic works:

Latitude Parallel: 29.0175

Planet Rotation: 6.9 /(divide) by 4 = 1.725

Moon Rotation: +0.9

Total Latitude: -31.6425

(This means the co-ordinate that is officially recorded, -31.7877, is within 0.1452 of -31.6425 in this calculation - that would mean right next to the ruins, if not right on top)


REMEMBER: LONGITUDE – NEVER DIVIDE PLANET OR MOON DAYS.

REMEMBER: LATITUDE – ONLY DIVIDE PLANET DAYS BY 4.

REMEMBER: Binaries are different from moons. The ruins may be on either planet. To solve this, work out each binary planet as if it is the parent planet in order to calculate which rotational days to divide by 4.


Therefore, here are the co-ordinates for potential ruins in Synuefe ZL-J d10-119

Planet 1

Longitude: 121.0000 + 4.7 + 0.9 = 126.6000

Latitude: 29.0175 + 4.7 / 4 = 1.175 + 0.9 = 31.0925

31.0925, 126.6000
-31.0925, 126.6000
-31.0952, -126.6000
31.0925, -126.6000

Planet 2

Longitude: 121.0000 + 0.9 + 4.7 = 126.6000

Latitude: 29.0175 + 0.9 / 4 = 0.225 + 4.7 = 33.9425

33.9425, 126.6000
-33.9425, 126.6000
-33.9425, -126.6000
33.9425, -126.6000


7 D

Longitude: 121.0000 + 1.8 + 1.0 = 123.8000

Latitude: 29.0175 + 1.8 / 4 = 0.45 + 1.0 = 30.4675

30.4675, 123.8000
-30.4675, 123.8000
-30.4675, -123.8000
30.4675, -123.8000

7 E

Longitude: 121.0000 + 1.0 + 1.8 = 123.8000

Latitude: 29.0175 + 1.0 / 4 = 31.0675

31.0675, 123.8000
-31.0675, 123.8000
-31.0675, -123.8000
31.0675, -123.8000


HOWEVER:

I could be wrong about this:



Therefore, please make sure your check around your chosen area carefully - and be sure to check out the extra co-ordinates I have linked above.

I've looked around a little, but I'm so tired after suffering insomnia all night, and coming up with this theory, I'm mentally exhausted, so if any CMDRs want to do the math and check out those binaries, please do (though if I am spot on, please remember me ).

Also, if someone could do the math for IC 2391 SECTOR GW-V B2-4 B 1 and IC 2391 Sector ZE-A D101 C3 - that would be great, I don't have detailed scans in my own ship in those systems - If they are not the same or within 1 long or lat or .1500 or something then my idea may need to go back to the drawing board.

If anyone can provide detailed information for the IC 2391 planets and moons (both planet and moon), I could work it out for you if need be.

Good luck CMDRs, and good hunting.

I hope I'm right this time ^^

EDIT: Oh, about that divide 4 thing - I'm hypothesizing if this is how the Guardians would find the mean average, since we now know they had 4 digits - the numbers certainly support it for the original ruin site.

And this:

Spoiler

http://i.imgur.com/iHcpII8.jpg

This could be how the co-ordinates are worked out in their language.

I'm not convinced, but I've put it on the FrontPage the same, for other CMDRs to check and test the theory.

However, I am the "keep it simple" kind of guy, usually... but reward for the huge effort and time spent is due.

 

[Stormprooter]

Any theory that predicts longitude is fundamentally flawed.
The longitude measurement on a planet is based on an arbitrary prime meridian.

Unless you can propose why the Guardians would use exactly the same zero longitude as the one we see in game then it canot be predicted.

The only possibility (and it is only a possibility) if for tidally locked bodies. The meridian which is directly in line with it's parent body could be thought of as zero (and for us, I believe it is that way) - but it's a leap of faith to make that assumption for the Guardians.

 

[yukimono]

Any theory that predicts longitude is fundamentally flawed.
The longitude measurement on a planet is based on an arbitrary prime meridian.

Unless you can propose why the Guardians would use exactly the same zero longitude as the one we see in game then it canot be predicted.

If zero mattered, sure. The system can be different but if the data is relative to another point, the measurement can be done any metric.

 

[krisuus]

So, if you log on via solo, do you just get the "normal" obelisks lighting up?

Still only the standard ones in solo.

 

[CMDR Gizmo]

If zero mattered, sure. The system can be different but if the data is relative to another point, the measurement can be done any metric.

Which is exactly what this theory is doing, ruins coordinates are absolute and their longitude depends on the meridian of origin?

 

[MadDogMurdock]

The only possibility (and it is only a possibility) if for tidally locked bodies. The meridian which is directly in line with it's parent body could be thought of as zero (and for us, I believe it is that way) - but it's a leap of faith to make that assumption for the Guardians.

Agreed. A tidally locked body has a natural zero meridian.
However, the ruins planets are not tidally locked and the game doesn't set that meridian as zero on tidally locked bodies anyway.
I proved this by locating that meridian on Merope 5c - somewhere buried in one of the threadnaughts is my discovery and declaration of the Murdock Meridian.

 

[Stormprooter]

Agreed. A tidally locked body has a natural zero meridian.
However, the ruins planets are not tidally locked and the game doesn't set that meridian as zero on tidally locked bodies anyway.
I proved this by locating that meridian on Merope 5c - somewhere buried in one of the threadnaughts is my discovery and declaration of the Murdock Meridian.

In that case, longitude would seem to be "arbitary". The only possibility left is a relative longitude difference between sites - and even that's a very large stretch assuming that the guardians attributed zero longitude to a body according to the same rules as stellar forge (but perhaps at an offset).
It would be interesting to know how stellar forge goes about setting the zero meridian for these planets too....

 

[Jmanis]

Still only the standard ones in solo.

Scratch that theory then, thanks! (can't rep again)

 

[QorbeQ]

Regarding the arbitrary nature of longitude, I think we simply need to accept that there is a defined point at which FDev start their coordinate system for any given body.

Following on from that, *if* it comes to pass that other in-game races use that same reference point (or even, shock horror, the same coordinate system) then it's purely for our convenience to make any puzzles vaguely solvable rather than having to teach us an entire spatial reference system first.

So, that's that.


o7

 

[Stryka Choon]

Okay guys, here's the deal. Important theory to read.
.....theory stuff....

Rep for the huge amount of work you've put into this. I don't think you're right - sorry! - but FDev may well have used some sort of algorithm to place the ruins, so why not yours? What I don't believe is that there's any greatly complex 'historical' justification for the placements. Like others have mentioned earlier, I think this storyline is much simpler than we've been speculating it may be. It was devised by humans, and intended to be solved by the average gameplayer. Grind and brute force is a large part of the solution, rather than degree-level maths. But massive respect for trying the complex route!

 

[ncjunk]

I imagine they just picked a site that had a nice view and was close to the shops.

B.T.W some of us are just being lazy and waiting for the rest of you to find the new sites so pull your fingers out and get on with it! It's very tiring refreshing this thread every few hours.

 

[QorbeQ]

I imagine they just picked a site that had a nice view and was close to the shops.

Thank you for that morning chortle

 

[Brakhir]

Okay guys, here's the deal. Important theory to read.

I think I know how the equation works - I think I have finally cracked it.

If you refer to my picture I posted several pages ago (see spoiler);

Spoiler

http://i.imgur.com/RHODpnm.png

I believe this is the route of all co-ordinates. It does involve the moon, but not how you may think.

Here is how the equation works - prepare.

Up until now, we have no had the true "meridian" in which to derive co-ordinates. However, if you've had a gander at my picture, you'll notice the light year placements I put in.

Longitude

Spoiler

483.53 light years is the distance between Synuefe ZL-J d10-119 and Synuefe XR-H D11-102. Let's round this off to 484, as the calculation difference is negligible - however, I do use the proper maths below to show my working, and in the picture chart in the spoiler - don't fear.

484 / 2 = 242
484 / 3 = 161.3333333333333
484 / 4 = 121
484 / 5 = 96.8
484 / 6 = 80.66666666666667
484 / 7 = 69.14285714285714
484 / 8 = 60.5
484 / 9 = 53.77777777777778
484 / 10 = 48.4
484 / 11 = 44
484 / 12 = 40.33333333333333
484 / 13 = 37.23076923076923
484 / 14 = 34.57142857142857
484 / 15 = 32.26666666666667
484 / 16 = 30.25

Latitude

Spoiler

Latitude is also worked out, but by adding all 3 nearby systems instead, not the 2 furthest away; by how many light years separate them. So, 58.01ly + 20.01ly + 38.05ly = 116.07ly. Now we have this, all we simply do is divide by 4 - because all Latitudes across all ruins are "seemingly" universal.

116.07 / 2 = 58.035
116.07 / 3 = 38.69
116.07 / 4 = 29.0175
116.07 / 5 = 23.214
116.07 / 6 = 19.345
116.07 / 7 = 16.58142857142857
116.07 / 8 = 14.50875

Therefore, let us now work out what Synuefe XR-H D11-102 1 B's co-ordinates are:


MINUS OR POSITIVE?

If the rotation of PLANET is negative, Longitude is Negative; e.g. -111,1111

If the rotation of MOON is negative, Latitude is Negative, e.g. -29,0000


Since 1 B and it's moon are both Negative in their Rotational Periods, both co-ordinates are set to (negative)(negative) -xx.xxxx.

Now here's the magic involved with Longitude:

Longitude Parallel System; Synuefe ZL-J d10-119: -120.8825 ([483.65ly /divide 4 = 120.8825])

Planet Rotation: +6.9

Moon Rotation: +0.9

Total Longitude: 128.6825

(This means the co-ordinate that is officially recorded, -128.9711, is within 0.2886 of 128.6825 in this calculation - that would mean right next to the ruins, if not right on top)


Now here's Latitude:

Universal Latitude Parallel; Synuefe XO-P c22-17 + IC 2391 Sector ZE-A d101 + IC 2391 Sector GW-V b2-4; otherwise known as; 58.01ly + 20.01ly + 38.05ly = 116.07ly / 4 = 29.0175

29.0175 is shared between all sites - now this is how the magic works:

Latitude Parallel: 29.0175

Planet Rotation: 6.9 /(divide) by 4 = 1.725

Moon Rotation: +0.9

Total Latitude: -31.6425

(This means the co-ordinate that is officially recorded, -31.7877, is within 0.1452 of -31.6425 in this calculation - that would mean right next to the ruins, if not right on top)


REMEMBER: LONGITUDE – NEVER DIVIDE PLANET OR MOON DAYS.

REMEMBER: LATITUDE – ONLY DIVIDE PLANET DAYS BY 4.

REMEMBER: Binaries are different from moons. The ruins may be on either planet. To solve this, work out each binary planet as if it is the parent planet in order to calculate which rotational days to divide by 4.


Therefore, here are the co-ordinates for potential ruins in Synuefe ZL-J d10-119

Planet 1

Longitude: 121.0000 + 4.7 + 0.9 = 126.6000

Latitude: 29.0175 + 4.7 / 4 = 1.175 + 0.9 = 31.0925

31.0925, 126.6000
-31.0925, 126.6000
-31.0952, -126.6000
31.0925, -126.6000

Planet 2

Longitude: 121.0000 + 0.9 + 4.7 = 126.6000

Latitude: 29.0175 + 0.9 / 4 = 0.225 + 4.7 = 33.9425

33.9425, 126.6000
-33.9425, 126.6000
-33.9425, -126.6000
33.9425, -126.6000


7 D

Longitude: 121.0000 + 1.8 + 1.0 = 123.8000

Latitude: 29.0175 + 1.8 / 4 = 0.45 + 1.0 = 30.4675

30.4675, 123.8000
-30.4675, 123.8000
-30.4675, -123.8000
30.4675, -123.8000

7 E

Longitude: 121.0000 + 1.0 + 1.8 = 123.8000

Latitude: 29.0175 + 1.0 / 4 = 31.0675

31.0675, 123.8000
-31.0675, 123.8000
-31.0675, -123.8000
31.0675, -123.8000


HOWEVER:

I could be wrong about this:



Therefore, please make sure your check around your chosen area carefully - and be sure to check out the extra co-ordinates I have linked above.

I've looked around a little, but I'm so tired after suffering insomnia all night, and coming up with this theory, I'm mentally exhausted, so if any CMDRs want to do the math and check out those binaries, please do (though if I am spot on, please remember me ).

Also, if someone could do the math for IC 2391 SECTOR GW-V B2-4 B 1 and IC 2391 Sector ZE-A D101 C3 - that would be great, I don't have detailed scans in my own ship in those systems - If they are not the same or within 1 long or lat or .1500 or something then my idea may need to go back to the drawing board.

If anyone can provide detailed information for the IC 2391 planets and moons (both planet and moon), I could work it out for you if need be.

Good luck CMDRs, and good hunting.

I hope I'm right this time ^^

EDIT: Oh, about that divide 4 thing - I'm hypothesizing if this is how the Guardians would find the mean average, since we now know they had 4 digits - the numbers certainly support it for the original ruin site.

And this:

Spoiler

http://i.imgur.com/iHcpII8.jpg

This could be how the co-ordinates are worked out in their language.

2 questions for my understanding, taking the example of Synuefe XR-H D11-102 1 B :

1. You say the moon has a negative rotational period. My game says it's positive. Then it would be a negative longitude (planet) and positive latitude (moon)

2. In the calculation for the longitude and latitude, you used 0.9 for the moon's rotational period. My game says 0.3

Where am I wrong ?

 

[CMDR Dreamstate]

OH MY GOD, I'm on fire.

Getting another update ready with co-ords concerning the 2 new recent systems.

More to come.

- - - Updated - - -

2 questions for my understanding, taking the example of Synuefe XR-H D11-102 1 B :

1. You say the moon has a negative rotational period. My game says it's positive. Then it would be a negative longitude (planet) and positive latitude (moon)

2. In the calculation for the longitude and latitude, you used 0.9 for the moon's rotational period. My game says 0.3

Where am I wrong ?

Apolagies, the forward slash strokes / I am using as "Divide" - can't find divide on my keyboard, but I'll revise soon!

 

[frostypaw]

Clearly worth a try!

At least, trying to do the math in order to check if site 2 and 3 match the theory ...

So my mate chucks out new theories every day - he's never been right so far, but still worth a try right?

Seriously if we want to avoid constant thread spam we have to not throw fuel on the fire.

 

[QorbeQ]

Seriously if we want to avoid constant thread spam we have to not throw fuel on the fire.

Tis a touch annoying on mobile where the spoilers don't hide - and especially when people quote the entire spoilered post when replying... my thumb is aching from scrolling

o7

 

[Zieman]

So my mate chucks out new theories every day - he's never been right so far, but still worth a try right?

Seriously if we want to avoid constant thread spam we have to not throw fuel on the fire.

Yes, worth a try.

We have three test cases to 'desktop test' the theory against, and if it passes those tests, we can do field study on other candidate planets.
Either we find new sites or we don't - the theory is verified or it isn't.

And then on to next theory (and if you don't believe in the theory, you try something else in the meantime).

 

[Brakhir]

So my mate chucks out new theories every day - he's never been right so far, but still worth a try right?

Seriously if we want to avoid constant thread spam we have to not throw fuel on the fire.

I'm a bit tired of eyeballing thousand squared kilometers of beige ... So 15 min of math is good for relaxing