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Skip Rockbounder

Skip Rockbounder
The unfortunate thing is you guys Gran Turismo has ditched 'tuning' from it's play and provides only Standard and Race versions of the cars for the game after GT6
Now I understand it's a completely different game and genre but the thinking could well be a similar 'corporate' thinking Yamauchi's response was that gamers today didn't understand what doing various thing to a car would do so he eliminated the choice, many FPS games nerf and buff weapons to balance on line gameplay,

It may well fall about their ears, but it dose seem that gameplay is becoming secondary to 'pretty pretty' aimed at the casual player
 

Shinji Ikari

Shinji Ikari
Max Factor said:
An assumption which cannot be backed up by facts and is biased is subjective. It is not the objective. Those are the facts of the matter. If cannot provide any certifiable facts instead of biased research, it's subjective.

WHAT PART OF THAT DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND.

I even gave you the definition of objective which you have completely ignored and still say your subjective reason is objective. Utter bloody madness.
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Ermmm, it can be and I also did that, also, you clearly wrote too fast so now I don't understand a lot of your post.
 

Shinji Ikari

Shinji Ikari
Old Duck said:
And add some new ones! We've got dozens of weapons to chose from, half-a-dozen mining tools to chose from, yet we only have one optional exploration-specific module, the DSS. While I do very much like the FSS, Exploration still seems to lag other professions regarding flexibility and "things to do".
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iu
 

Sterling MH

Banned
S
The ADS is not there. If it were put back, this would take developer effort for a tiny minorty of players, and only a tiny fraction of the game they play to boot, making it VERY worthless. It isn't there. So you have to give reason to give it back rather than, say, fix one bug among several that cause random server disconnects.

But it is WORSE than that. If the ADS were merely added back in, it renders the FSS useless. No, "you can decide not to use it!" doesn't work: you can decide not to use the FSS if it is so abhorrent to you. IF you don't accept "Dont use the FSS", then you cannot use "don't use the ADS". So as well as coding it back in, bugfixing the change and testing all over again to ensure it doesn't introduce or reintroduce bugs, it has to include dev effort to CHANGE both FSS and ADS so that they are both viable and useful options.

Which, be honest, you will scream the house down if they don't let you do everything you used to do, and part of melding the two would NECESSITATE the removal of something from the ADS. So THAT is off the cards too.

So, no, you don't get the ADS back. You can do 100% of what you want the ADS for with the FSS, you just can't do it with one click. And, since "one click" is not a gameplay mechanic, the ADS WAS NOT GAMEPLAY. If you don't want to play the game to do exploration, feel free to not bother exploring. The ADS wasn't exploring. So if using the FSS, which IS exploration gameplay, is not what you want, just don't go exploring.
 

[Diplomacy] Carnegie

[Diplomacy] Carnegie
Sterling MH said:
The ADS is not there. If it were put back, this would take developer effort for a tiny minorty of players, and only a tiny fraction of the game they play to boot, making it VERY worthless. It isn't there. So you have to give reason to give it back rather than, say, fix one bug among several that cause random server disconnects.

But it is WORSE than that. If the ADS were merely added back in, it renders the FSS useless. No, "you can decide not to use it!" doesn't work: you can decide not to use the FSS if it is so abhorrent to you. IF you don't accept "Dont use the FSS", then you cannot use "don't use the ADS". So as well as coding it back in, bugfixing the change and testing all over again to ensure it doesn't introduce or reintroduce bugs, it has to include dev effort to CHANGE both FSS and ADS so that they are both viable and useful options.

Which, be honest, you will scream the house down if they don't let you do everything you used to do, and part of melding the two would NECESSITATE the removal of something from the ADS. So THAT is off the cards too.

So, no, you don't get the ADS back. You can do 100% of what you want the ADS for with the FSS, you just can't do it with one click. And, since "one click" is not a gameplay mechanic, the ADS WAS NOT GAMEPLAY. If you don't want to play the game to do exploration, feel free to not bother exploring. The ADS wasn't exploring. So if using the FSS, which IS exploration gameplay, is not what you want, just don't go exploring.
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Well, somebody hasn't been reading all the threads.

I'm just going to point out that "'you can decide not to use it' doesn't work" is a complete garbage. Adding an optional ADS is exactly the same as adding an optional Advanced Docking Computer or Supercruise Assistant - which by your logic renders 95% of ED activity 'utterly useless', and yet FDev are perfectly happy to do so.

So I'm afraid we're going to carry on asking for the ADS back. If that upsets you, you can always stop playing.
 

Sterling MH

Banned
S
Riverside said:
On the PC I mentioned I have two hard drives and just swap the boot drive in the bios if I want to change the OS. It's not the most elegant solution but it works.

But the point is I can still use it.
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The equivalent here wouldbe you have to relog in to the game to change whether you use ADS or FSS, which was scoffed at as "totally not justified", yet here you are justifying a step that could even be "shut down to destop and restart the game"...

You can't use the ADS because the game doesn't have it. So "I could use it" doesn't apply. Kelly wasn't using it as an example of how to run the ADS vs FSS, they were using it to demonstrate why ADS was REPLACED with the FSS. The game that used the ADS doesn't work any more, that version of the game was replaced by this one. Try using Office 365 version that MS don't run any more. This game is a "live service", and when it replaces a prior version, you don't get to use that prior version. You don't get around an upgraded version of a live service by changing your boot disk.
 

Burke

B
The ADS was exploring. Please dont hash over old ground. You must read the thread if you wish to contribute otherwise you end up repeating things that have already been dispelled.
 

Skip Rockbounder

Skip Rockbounder
Sterling MH said:
The equivalent here wouldbe you have to relog in to the game to change whether you use ADS or FSS, which was scoffed at as "totally not justified", yet here you are justifying a step that could even be "shut down to destop and restart the game"...

You can't use the ADS because the game doesn't have it. So "I could use it" doesn't apply. Kelly wasn't using it as an example of how to run the ADS vs FSS, they were using it to demonstrate why ADS was REPLACED with the FSS. The game that used the ADS doesn't work any more, that version of the game was replaced by this one. Try using Office 365 version that MS don't run any more. This game is a "live service", and when it replaces a prior version, you don't get to use that prior version. You don't get around an upgraded version of a live service by changing your boot disk.
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I think you're mixing two topics here, the topic about PC's came about because Kelly asked about swapping between OS's... interesting but as far as I see not really relevant to the thread.

You could read through the thread to see where it's come from and where it's going... watch out for the "Morbo demands Objective reasons" though, and then, pick us up on any point that you feel pertinent... we'll still be here!
 
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Sterling MH

Banned
S
Skip Rockbounder said:
I think you're mixing two topics here, the topic about PC's came about because Kelly asked about swapping between OS's... interesting but as far as I see not really relevant to the thread.
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Nope, you're not even mixing up two topics, you're delberately wrong about them both. Kelly was saying that the ADS was REPLACED by the FSS in the same way as your upgraded OS REPLACED the earlier one.
 

Burke

B
Using a telescope. Honestly if you think you can just dismiss everything that came before the FSS as "not exploring", then i dont think you understand the subject well enough to post on it.
 

Skip Rockbounder

Skip Rockbounder
Sterling MH said:
Nope, you're not even mixing up two topics, you're delberately wrong about them both. Kelly was saying that the ADS was REPLACED by the FSS in the same way as your upgraded OS REPLACED the earlier one.
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Perhaps I misread an attempt to derail the thread by introducing a misleading parallel... it's happened before and could be happening right now with your very post,
As I suggested earlier dig deeper to find out more.
 

Skip Rockbounder

Skip Rockbounder
Sterling MH said:
I have found out lots. I have dug in many places. I have done what you asked and done so up to 40 years ago. You may need to actually supply some content i your "advice" if you want it to mean anything.
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Well Master extraordinary Angry, I think you're over tired, and to be honest I can't be bothered with you any longer...
 

Riverside

Riverside
Sterling MH said:
The equivalent here wouldbe you have to relog in to the game to change whether you use ADS or FSS, which was scoffed at as "totally not justified", yet here you are justifying a step that could even be "shut down to destop and restart the game"...

You can't use the ADS because the game doesn't have it. So "I could use it" doesn't apply. Kelly wasn't using it as an example of how to run the ADS vs FSS, they were using it to demonstrate why ADS was REPLACED with the FSS. The game that used the ADS doesn't work any more, that version of the game was replaced by this one. Try using Office 365 version that MS don't run any more. This game is a "live service", and when it replaces a prior version, you don't get to use that prior version. You don't get around an upgraded version of a live service by changing your boot disk.
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I think you misunderstand the analogy, it's not about dual-booting, simply that I can still use those old operating systems. The point would have been the same if the PC in question had only Win98 on it (or any other old OS).

There was, as it turns out, no need to remove the old exploration modules, this proposal thread is about putting them, or their functionality that is now missing, back into the game. It wouldn't affect the way the new stuff works.

I appreciate that it's a long & meandering thread but the points you raise have been discussed already. It's okay to have a different opinion, if we all agreed on everything there would be nothing to discuss ;)
 
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