Allow use of pre 3.3 Advanced Discovery Scanner

[lenna]

After so long and no reply....i wouldnt count on it. Personally im hoping the thing is going to be more trouble than its worth to maintain, like the bugs in it are going to be impossible to fix for some reason or other.

I have no doubt that the FSS is going to require ALOT of work to sort out the kinks in it but ultimately I doubt FD will abandon the concept - they have after all seemingly put ALOT of time and resources into it.

Indeed. If it keeps on bugging out like it has already the backlash from explorers may be enough for them to rethink it.

Would you please elaborate on the "bugging out" comment, I am uncertain what you are referring to.

 

[lenna]

It's just odd how people defending the FSS often seem to attack the system map reveal as being too easy and OP and suggest it is a cherry pickers heaven, then use the argument that the FSS makes it easier to cherry pick, which IMO it does.

If anything the FSS is cherry picker's heaven - the map reveal is anything but a give away regarding body types. Sure, the thumb nail image may hint at the type of the body and you might be able to guestimate whether it is habitable or not based on distance from the star BUT you still have to fly there to prove you are right on that score. The FSS on the other hand basically gives you that information for free and arguably provides a quicker means to prove any assessment.

Only interested in cherry picking ELWs? The FSS gives a definitive filter on that.

 

[Faded Glory]

I have no doubt that the FSS is going to require ALOT of work to sort out the kinks in it but ultimately I doubt FD will abandon the concept - they have after all seemingly put ALOT of time and resources into it.

No reason (IMO obviously) why FD would or should scrap the FSS, simply reinstate the ADS as an optional module to give players alternative methods of exploration. Different ways of being able to do things seems like a good thing from a game perspective.

In any case, the FSS isn't simply about exploration methods. It very specifically addresses the 'space is big' issue by allowing players to choose whether they want to embark on a long SC journey, and provides them with a reason for making that choice. POI's.

It also (along with the DSS) addresses the difficulty that players face in locating things on 1:1 scale planets. While some people certainly enjoyed the challenge, I suspect most didn't, and thus didn't even bother to try.

Looking forward, I reckon FD would like people to use the FSS for finding mission targets and USS, which they can already, but it's not a particularly good implementation right now unless you simply like playing the FSS game, since for that at the moment it really is a bit 'whack-a-mole' as there's no indication in the FSS what a particular type of USS is, or whether a body has a mission location on it, so you simply have to keep resolving things and hope you hit the right one sooner than later.

 

[Faded Glory]

If anything the FSS is cherry picker's heaven - the map reveal is anything but a give away regarding body types. Sure, the thumb nail image may hint at the type of the body and you might be able to guestimate whether it is habitable or not based on distance from the star BUT you still have to fly there to prove you are right on that score. The FSS on the other hand basically gives you that information for free and arguably provides a quicker means to prove any assessment.

Only interested in cherry picking ELWs? The FSS gives a definitive filter on that.

Absolutely on all counts. For cherry picking body types the FSS wins hands down (although some people disagree). IMO much quicker and much more definitive when it comes to identifying specific body types.

I will say that I personally have no issue with cherry picking, although it wasn't my method of exploration, I was a scanning completionist as in scan one body, scan them all. I was even called OCD on one occasion!

But seriously, the game world is so vast that a person would be a bit bonkers not to cherry pick on some level. I cherry picked on a system level, as in if I looked at a system and saw nothing of interest I moved on without leaving a mark, or as above, if I did like the look of something I scanned it all. It's not possible now to move on leaving a system untouched due to the auto-scan function, and while I found that initially disappointing, I just let it go as there's nothing I could do about it.

 

[lenna]

Looking forward, I reckon FD would like people to use the FSS for finding mission targets and USS, which they can already, but it's not a particularly good implementation right now unless you simply like playing the FSS game, since for that at the moment it really is a bit 'whack-a-mole' as there's no indication in the FSS what a particular type of USS is, or whether a body has a mission location on it, so you simply have to keep resolving things and hope you hit the right one sooner than later.

Yup - there are plenty of things FD could do better in regards to the FSS mechanics, there were some suggestions made during the Beta regarding this but they were seemingly ignored. Such improvements are unlikely to offset the issues raised by this thread though, to coin a phrase: you can dress a pig in silk but it is still a pig.

The only change that is likely to garner support from those that dislike the FSS mechanics and prefer the pre-3.3 exploration mechanics is going to involve a massive re-write of the FSS and move the implementation sufficiently away from the current mini-game approach.

 

[Faded Glory]

The only change that is likely to garner support from those that dislike the FSS mechanics and prefer the pre-3.3 exploration mechanics is going to involve a massive re-write of the FSS and move the implementation sufficiently away from the current mini-game approach.

A simpler way might be simply to reinstate an optional module ADS which would allow players to explore by targeting bodies and flying to them and make using the FSS optional.

 

[Maymo]

Would you please elaborate on the "bugging out" comment, I am uncertain what you are referring to.

FSS broken...

Anyone else have an issue when they zoom into a signal in FSS that the system map and UI ‘turns flat’? Imagine if you’re looking at your screen head on then it turns 90 degrees to the left so you’re just looking at the side of the screen. It’s like that. Only happens in certain systems.

forums.frontier.co.uk

Patch Notes - Update - April Update - Patch 2

Greetings Commanders, We're aiming to roll-out a patch for all platforms on Tuesday 14 May at 10:00 AM (UTC) to implement a couple of bug fixes and address issues with the FSS (crashing when using the FSS, as well as graphical display and camera re-positioning issues). We will update this...

forums.frontier.co.uk

 

[lenna]

Absolutely on all counts. For cherry picking body types the FSS wins hands down (although some people disagree). IMO much quicker and much more definitive when it comes to identifying specific body types.

I will say that I personally have no issue with cherry picking, although it wasn't my method of exploration, I was a scanning completionist as in scan one body, scan them all. I was even called OCD on one occasion!

But seriously, the game world is so vast that a person would be a bit bonkers not to cherry pick on some level. I cherry picked on a system level, as in if I looked at a system and saw nothing of interest I moved on without leaving a mark, or as above, if I did like the look of something I scanned it all. It's not possible now to move on leaving a system untouched due to the auto-scan function, and while I found that initially disappointing, I just let it go as there's nothing I could do about it.

Agreed - When I explore, I normally target a region of space that I personally think looks interesting and may perform scans of opportunity (criteria is not fixed) on the way there and on the way back. I will normally completely scan the targeted system and may spread out and scan surrounding systems but normally I will target a new region or head back to the bubble.

Ultimately, the imposition of the FSS mechanics has ruined exploration for at least some and that is something FD should not ignore.

A simpler way might be simply to reinstate an optional module ADS which would allow players to explore by targeting bodies and flying to them and make using the FSS optional.

Well, that is the angle that the SMC proposal is approaching the problem from and is seemingly the intent the OP had in mind.

 

[lenna]

...

Thanks for the images and links - not seen the symptoms myself but then the imposition of the exploration mini-game has kind of put me off exploring. Not wanting to drag the thread off-topic but have the issues been identified as being specific to certain platforms?

 

[Zieman]

Not wanting to drag the thread off-topic but have the issues been identified as being specific to certain platforms?

Not platform specific.

 

[lenna]

Not platform specific.

Glad I am not planning any exploration trips then - that kind of thing would likely make me want to throw the computer out of the window, a bit like FD did with the exploration mechanics when they introduced the FSS in the first place.

On a more serious and on-topic note, the bugs in the FSS just add more weight to the "what where FD thinking?" argument when they completely rewrote the exploration mechanics in the first place. When many of us were talking about improvements to exploration a lot of us were more focused on near body scanning improvements rather than wanting the whole thing redesigned from the ground up.

 

[Skip Rockbounder]

Thanks for the images and links - not seen the symptoms myself but then the imposition of the exploration mini-game has kind of put me off exploring. Not wanting to drag the thread off-topic but have the issues been identified as being specific to certain platforms?

FD are aware and have (through Will) have acknowledged the problem, and as far as I gather are seeking a fix, it seems to happen when a body is obscured by a distant same system star, it means we have to go out there to get line of sight to do the scan...
But yeah, different thing and acknowledged.

 

[Skip Rockbounder]

Glad I am not planning any exploration trips then - that kind of thing would likely make me want to throw the computer out of the window, a bit like FD did with the exploration mechanics when they introduced the FSS in the first place.

On a more serious and on-topic note, the bugs in the FSS just add more weight to the "what where FD thinking?" argument when they completely rewrote the exploration mechanics in the first place. When many of us were talking about improvements to exploration a lot of us were more focused on near body scanning improvements rather than wanting the whole thing redesigned from the ground up.

One of the silliest things I think is that we begged for the Orrery map and they gave it to us I can only presume to help smooth the waters of acceptance of the FSS, but we can't even plot a route with it, (beyond the select one destination and go) it literally just sits there like a chocolate darts trophy gathering dust.

 

[lenna]

One of the silliest things I think is that we begged for the Orrery map and they gave it to us I can only presume to help smooth the waters of acceptance of the FSS, but we can't even plot a route with it, (beyond the select one destination and go) it literally just sits there like a chocolate darts trophy gathering dust.

Less orrery map and more ignore-me map. [EDIT]At least FD did not force the orrery map on everyone and kept the topological map.[/EDIT]

On a slightly more serious note, I never saw the point of it - I know there are some that will argue it is useful for determining where things are from orbital paths (c/f parallax scanning) and perhaps provides a more realistic representation of the system and allows for better assessment of what might be an interesting system from a screen capture perspective but neither argument seems solid enough arguments for it's introduction - I am guessing (and would not be surprised if) it was relatively cheap coding wise for FD to implement (probably a just do-it type task).

[EDIT]I can see how it might help identify so-called goldilocks worlds better since their orbital paths would be more visible. However, the FSS already does that in a more direct sense via the frequency banding.[/EDIT]

 

[CMDR Karrde Sun]

... I wish i was Burke. Simply refusing to try it. See i've always given the new exploration the benefit of the doubt. Perhaps theres something im missing, something i could change, rewrite, hold differently so i can make it work.

I think out of bubble exploration is terminally broken. It only supports either not caring at all about the substance (ie, travelling), or quickest path to save game crap.

• I don't care about credits, have billions and elite explorer because passenger missions play like cargo transport are somehow exploration.
• I don't care about the mapped tag, as why do i need my name on a body more than once?

See what you find over time is that... after you've been given the zoomed in view and the tag of discovery.... for the vast majority of bodies you don't actually want to fly out to them. Not considering in dismay the XX / hour consideration... regardless of how you do it, its a common scenario to spend more time in the fss than in your ship while exploring. I did not sign up for that.

I'm pretty sure i realized this during beta.. but refused to accept it because i thought that highly of elite. On second discovery of the reality of how exploring actually works.. yes i have to call it terminally broken. I have to conclude things about frontier that i'll keep to myself too.

PS. Its very easy to slip to "not caring" mode as natural temporary relief of the fss. How tragic is this. The stellar forge turns into nothing but ticks on a spectrum and entirely dismissed for this gameplay. You probably know what im talking about. That's so sad.

 

[Burke]

I have no doubt that the FSS is going to require ALOT of work to sort out the kinks in it but ultimately I doubt FD will abandon the concept - they have after all seemingly put ALOT of time and resources into it.

Dunno why you would think it took alot of time to make tbh but im no expert. Two people in an afternoon or something? lol no honestly i have no idea

... I wish i was Burke. Simply refusing to try it.

Even now after so long, watching it being used on video i get this "ahhhh no" sinking feeling in my stomach. Maybe its cause i havnt become desensitised to it thru use, hehe.

 

[lenna]

Dunno why you would think it took alot of time to make tbh but im no expert. Two people in an afternoon or something? lol no honestly i have no idea

The mechanics themselves were probably relative cheap to do but apparently, FD did a lot of background research for the audio aspect (c/f radio-telescopes). That research was no doubt not cheap to do even if it was perhaps misguided.

 

[Maymo]

its a common scenario to spend more time in the fss than in your ship while exploring. I did not sign up for that.

I'm pretty sure i realized this during beta.. but refused to accept it because i thought that highly of elite. On second discovery of the reality of how exploring actually works.. yes i have to call it terminally broken. I have to conclude things about frontier that i'll keep to myself too.

I think this is an excellent point. I don’t mind using the FSS as an exploration tool, but I don’t want to be glued to it for hours...

It’s currently very laggy on my end when zooming in/out on all the various planets and often flashes blue/white sharply which is very unpleasant. I can’t even endure that for a session of play, never mind the weeks/months that some folk here put into exploration.

If the FSS could be turned into a secondary tool used for pinpointing the interesting planets then it would be far easier to endure.

I suppose that just brings us back around to the whole point of this thread which is to bring back the ADS method as the first stage of exploration, i’m definitely on team-honk!

Long live the honk.

 

[Burke]

The mechanics themselves were probably relative cheap to do but apparently, FD did a lot of background research for the audio aspect (c/f radio-telescopes). That research was no doubt not cheap to do even if it was perhaps misguided.

Hmmm. I have heard many of those sounds on youtube altho i doubt those particular ones would be game quality. Black holes actually make some quite interesting noises aswell thru the same filter.

This is the very first one i found by searching planet sounds, just incase anybody never heard it.

Edit: hmmm comedy seems high here, the FSS does seem like it has many of the sounds of uranus altho perhaps processed. Another link.

 

[lenna]

Hmmm. I have heard many of those sounds on youtube altho i doubt those particular ones would be game quality.

Regardless of what may or may not have been posted on YouTube, FD did apparently consult with real-world subject matter experts on the overall topic. How accurate such things are compared with reality is a bit besides the point of this thread. The point is the work has been done and can not be undone, regardless of how we individually may feel about the end results of that work.

On top of this, FD really should have ensured at release that existing user exploration data was preserved - for example: I have 10k+ L3 scans, and 800+ L2 scans under my belt yet only 13 discoveries marked in the in-game encyclopaedia (essentially stuff that I have scanned since the release of the FSS). How messed up is that.

However, the key driver behind this thread is FD removed exploration options that essentially should never have been removed in the first place.