The Mamba is well represented in PvP, but it can do PvE combat quite well too.
Am I missing something here? Ship balance.
- Thread starter Airtroops83
- Start date
The Mamba is well represented in PvP, but it can do PvE combat quite well too.
The reason I brought that up is because I think some people might be missing that angle. It does have a purpose, but maybe not one that everyone sees.
Am I the only one who is trying to figure out where OP's figure of "30 knots" comes from?
Going from the Mamba and FDL builds OP provided, the Mamba's boost is 49 m/s faster, which equates to ~176 km/h, 110 Mph or ~95 knots. None of these values are even close to 30 (except the value in m/s which is much closer to 40 or 50), and this has me quite confused.
Going from the Mamba and FDL builds OP provided, the Mamba's boost is 49 m/s faster, which equates to ~176 km/h, 110 Mph or ~95 knots. None of these values are even close to 30 (except the value in m/s which is much closer to 40 or 50), and this has me quite confused.
Too used to flying other stuff. I meant m/s, but just refer to any unit of flight speed in knots out of habit.
I did underestimate the difference, but it is still far too small of a difference to justify how much the fdl outclasses the more expensive mamba in every other way
I did underestimate the difference, but it is still far too small of a difference to justify how much the fdl outclasses the more expensive mamba in every other way
Looking at typical loadouts i see i think the mambo is plenty quick enough.
Averages for fdls run about 540 heavy to 550 and change light.
For the mamba you see 570 right through 600.
Thats a huge difference in a skirmish.
Averages for fdls run about 540 heavy to 550 and change light.
For the mamba you see 570 right through 600.
Thats a huge difference in a skirmish.
okay then the mamba needs a buff in some other way, or the FDL needs to be toned back significantly.
For two ships with the same role, at nearly the same price, there is NO reason that one should clearly outpace the other so dramatically.
I'm open to suggestions for other buffs that wouldn't just make the mamba an fdl clone, but making its 'flavour' a bit more potent was the best option I could think of.
For two ships with the same role, at nearly the same price, there is NO reason that one should clearly outpace the other so dramatically.
I'm open to suggestions for other buffs that wouldn't just make the mamba an fdl clone, but making its 'flavour' a bit more potent was the best option I could think of.
They should both be nerfed significantly. The fdl and mamba DO NOT i repeat DO NOT need to be buffed at all
Why? Why should they be the same? They are different ships, with different hulls, I'd expect some performance differences. The F-15 and the Chinese J-10 are 'roughly' the same and yet neither the Americans or Chinese are striving to make them 'balanced'.
When selecting a vessel, I'll look at what the mission needs are. Sometimes a small, fast option is required.. Sometimes a stealthy option.. Sometimes you just want brute firepower. You select the vessel based on your needs. Having everything 'balanced' makes for boring gameplay.
Here's a hint: I find the idea of balance in games to be ridiculous. Target too tough? Try different tactics, try a different platform.You know, like life expects us to do. But then, I remember games that had no ending, just an ever increasing skill level that eventually became impossible.
I'm not saying they need to be the same.
I'm saying they need to be different but the mamba needs to get a buff in SOME area so it will be roughly equivelent to the fdl in terms of combat effectivness, their only roles.
Balance in games is rediculous?
ok
how about we have every ship in the game besides the DBX limited to only class e1 modules and hardpoints, and the dbx gets all size 8s. size 8 thrusters, size 8 hardpoints, the whole lot, oh and its cheaper than any other ship too. seems pretty stupid doesn't it? No one would use anything else right?
Thats the issue here. Balance is important.
The fdl is just better than the mamba at everything that it needs to do within its role.
You can't bring real life aircraft and situations into a game environment and expect a proper analogy. Theres some type of false equivalency in there.
I'm saying they need to be different but the mamba needs to get a buff in SOME area so it will be roughly equivelent to the fdl in terms of combat effectivness, their only roles.
Balance in games is rediculous?
ok
how about we have every ship in the game besides the DBX limited to only class e1 modules and hardpoints, and the dbx gets all size 8s. size 8 thrusters, size 8 hardpoints, the whole lot, oh and its cheaper than any other ship too. seems pretty stupid doesn't it? No one would use anything else right?
Thats the issue here. Balance is important.
The fdl is just better than the mamba at everything that it needs to do within its role.
You can't bring real life aircraft and situations into a game environment and expect a proper analogy. Theres some type of false equivalency in there.
I'm not too sure about the Mamba, but the FDL could really use a nerf (be it directly or indirectly). The combination of speed, firepower, maneuverability and tankiness that it has is is just too strong. From what little I have heard about it the Mamba is good, but I'm not sure if it is good enough to warrant getting nerfed.
Oh god nooooooo. Every habitat needs an alpha predator.
Gross imbalnces like that should be fixed, sure, but no developer worth the title would ever do it. There is a small difference between the 2 vessels, big deal, pick the one that suits you better - speaking of false equivalencies. By your argument, there should only be one ship in each size, because why do we need different options?
Looking through this thread, and others, suggests to me that both ships are used for more than just combat.
OK. I'll use a completely off-topic and unrelated analogy next time.
And you still haven't answered my question.. Why should the 2 vessels be at all similar? The answer you've provided thus far boils down to "Because".
Ship speeds are not shown in knots but metres per second.
I have no input in the ship discussion as not flown either, good to read though
I have no input in the ship discussion as not flown either, good to read though
There IS a gross imbalance. name one ship, any ship in the game where you think any pilot in their right mind would take~ 45 m/s over 29'/s of pitch. That IS a gross imbalance.
there is no 'suits you better', there is the better ship and then the one that looks better.
I have never once said that the two vessels SHOULD be similar, only that they ARE similar, and thus should be compared to one another. I advocated for MORE of a differentiation between the ships, not less.
making the mamba faster more differentiates them into their fighting styles.
right now you have
FDL: damn good boom n zoom fighter and also the best turn fighter in the game
Mamba: a good boom n zoom fighter, and a terrible turn fighter.
The mamba needs to excell in what its flavour was supposed to be so that there is a reason for it to exist, so it needs to be faster to make it a better boom n zoom fighter.
I also said I'd be fine if they removed two of its utility mounts. Again, more differentiation, not less.
Where did you get the idea that I think we only need one ship per size?
There are multiple roles and subroles within those, we need at least one ship per each, however those options need to be balanced so that any style of fighting, or any subrole is at least close to being balanced.
and no. if you use the mamba or fdl for anything other than fighting you're doing it as a meme. Have you seen the internal slots? The internals are that small because they are only meant to be fighters and so people CANT do other things with them.
wanna trade or mine in a mamaba?
explore in a FDL?
I mean you might be able to get a miserable experience out of this, but why would you pay 100m for a ship outfitted in that way performing that role worse than a cobra 3 would?
hahahahahhaha you wouldn't!
Corv or Conda would love more speed in exchange for worse pitch.
Speed lets you pick and choose engagements. Speed lets you escape. Speed lets you consistently use Long Range weapons. The best Medium 1v1 builds in the game are long range reversing mambas. Plenty of PvP pilots choose the Mamba for this reason.
You would huh?
You would take a pitch speed of ~2'/s on a corvetter so that itll go ~350 instead of ~300? yeah I don't think so.
heres the thing though,even if you wanted a faster more poorly handeling ship, you have that option.
The cutter boosts ~150m/s faster than the vette does. That is a worthwhile trade.
and for all that speed you give up ~5'/s. (you also give up other things in other areas like hardpoint placement so its a harder comparison to make)
for what its worth I think the vette should be either ~50m/s faster or have its bottom hardpoint removed and the smalls upgraded to mediums and the mediums upgraded to larges.
You would take a pitch speed of ~2'/s on a corvetter so that itll go ~350 instead of ~300? yeah I don't think so.
heres the thing though,even if you wanted a faster more poorly handeling ship, you have that option.
The cutter boosts ~150m/s faster than the vette does. That is a worthwhile trade.
and for all that speed you give up ~5'/s. (you also give up other things in other areas like hardpoint placement so its a harder comparison to make)
for what its worth I think the vette should be either ~50m/s faster or have its bottom hardpoint removed and the smalls upgraded to mediums and the mediums upgraded to larges.
The mamba is basically the same thing as the fdl.
Funny how you talk about "gross imbalance" for the two most overpowered ships in the game OP.
The vette does not need speed buffed either, its slow for a reason. The fdl and mamba are already far too fast and dont need a buff.