Engineers An even simpler streamline for Engineers! Cutting a whole level of faff out, with very minor changes.

I'm still playing my way and blazing my own trail.

So I call catship. I've not been forced to do anything I don't want to

When I needed parts from ships I thought about it and went to weapons fire detecteds in high-sec and helped out the system security take out pirates. Others go read INARA and think "OH RIGHT i have to shoot traders i see" and go do that and complain
That's all great... And with the suggestion in the OP, you could still carry on and do all that, in the same way... So you're arguing about?

you can either accept that playing your way is going to require more effort, thought and patience...

That all sounds very noble... But let's be frank, it's really just patience that's required as you are made to typically do a simplistic task, rolling dice over and over until the "stamp" you need to collect appears. How is that a positive addition to the game?

For example, I managed to do the following for a while, before it made me start to lose the will to play the game. Can you explain how there is anything particularly "nobble" about many of the mechanics that have been added, when they're akin to basically stamp collecting...

[video=youtube;PIbCFFdbAmI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIbCFFdbAmI[/video]


Why is it a good thing that I should be "made" to do the "stamp collecting" I do not enjoy/do not want to do, while the suggestion in the OP means I can participate in The Engineers in a more laid back fashion, doing what I enjoy? I don't care if it takes longer, just that I can do what I do prefer (to a greater degree).
 
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You collect materials (as currently) - Ideally a reduced list of them...

Engineers are interested in certain materials for their crafting, so you can give any materials you have to them (that they're interested in). This will increase your reputation with them. Common materials increase your reputation a bit. Rare materials more so.

As your reputation increases, higher level crafting is offered to you.

When ever you craft, you lose some reputation, in effect as payment.

That's it!

You can collect any material(s) an Engineer is interested in to level up and pay for crafting. Done!




If you want to skew the Wheel Of Fortune roll in your favour, then you have the option to additionally supply some specific materials to do that (akin to now). Likewise, if you want to dictate a specific side effect.

Done!




Result
A very small set of changes, for a very much simpler combined level up and payment system giving a simpler mechanic.

The desire is not to make it quicker to level up & craft, but simply to make it less of a full time consideration. Indeed, personally if it took even longer to increase my reputation via this method, I wouldn't mind, as I could do it more casually. In effect simply visiting the engineers periodically too drop off materials to level up as a side quest.



Example of actual changes:-
Change 1 - Handing in Materials
When you go to an Engineer you can go to a new screen to "donate" any materials you have which they are interested in (each Engineer is different).

It would show you a list of any/all materials you have they are interested in. Give an indication next to each how much reputation giving it to the Engineer would add (common less/rares more). And allow you to click any/all of these materials with the net effect showing your reputation with them going up.

Change 2 - Paying for Crafting
Crafting would simply reduce your reputation, depending upon the crafting level. So on the crafting screen, a simple graphic would show your reputations, and how much the selected crafting would reduce it.


Note1: The additional suggestions of allowing a CMDR to supply specific materials to skew the dice rolls for the module outcome, or dictate a side effect were already proposed by FD.

Note2: I would suggest removing "cargo" materials.

It really...really seems like you basically want to remove any kind of thing that makes the process more involving and potentially complex, though I am sure some will argue that having to 'get' different things isn't complex, it is a level of complexity, that personally actually makes the mods feel like something earned.

Turning it into: Do x enough times get y, will make it nothing but a grind, people will go to x planet with the easiest materials to gather, get the materials, give to engineer, get mods.
Now you can argue it is a grind currently, I know it feels so for some, but at least in my eyes it isn't a grind unless you make it, because the idea is built around: You do stuff, you get stuff, you use that stuff at engineers.
Not, as many use it: I want x, I need to do y1 y2 y3 y4 y5 y6 to get that item, boring! grindy!

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For example, I managed to do the following for a while, before it made me start to lose the will to play the game. Can you explain how there is anything particularly "nobble" about many of the mechanics that have been added, when they're akin to basically stamp collecting...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIbCFFdbAmI
Why is it a good thing that I should be "made" to do the "stamp collecting" I do not enjoy/do not want to do, while the suggestion in the OP means I can participate in The Engineers in a more laid back fashion, doing what I enjoy? I don't care if it takes longer, just that I can do what I do prefer (to a greater degree).
What is being done in this video is a horrible way of getting wakes, sitting passively waiting for wakes to be generated? yeah that's not the point of it, go do a mission, go bounty hunt, go nav hunting, there will be PLENTY of wakes to scan, passively waiting for them is like asking to be bored and frustrated, the game is based on, as previously described: Do something->get something.

You can grind in Elite sure, but a lot of it is a grind because people make it a grind, because they only see the profit or such, play the game because it is fun, do stuff you find fun, and you'll find yourself getting plenty of rewards to improve the way you have fun.
 
It really...really seems like you basically want to remove any kind of thing that makes the process more involving and potentially complex, though I am sure some will argue that having to 'get' different things isn't complex, it is a level of complexity, that personally actually makes the mods feel like something earned.

Turning it into: Do x enough times get y, will make it nothing but a grind, people will go to x planet with the easiest materials to gather, get the materials, give to engineer, get mods.
Now you can argue it is a grind currently, I know it feels so for some, but at least in my eyes it isn't a grind unless you make it, because the idea is built around: You do stuff, you get stuff, you use that stuff at engineers.
Not, as many use it: I want x, I need to do y1 y2 y3 y4 y5 y6 to get that item, boring! grindy!

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What is being done in this video is a horrible way of getting wakes, sitting passively waiting for wakes to be generated? yeah that's not the point of it, go do a mission, go bounty hunt, go nav hunting, there will be PLENTY of wakes to scan, passively waiting for them is like asking to be bored and frustrated, the game is based on, as previously described: Do something->get something.

You can grind in Elite sure, but a lot of it is a grind because people make it a grind, because they only see the profit or such, play the game because it is fun, do stuff you find fun, and you'll find yourself getting plenty of rewards to improve the way you have fun.

If it were involved or complex or challenging, that would be good. But in reality, generally, they are not. As such the proposition is to make the best of a bad thing.

So to adjust them slightly to be less onerous, and instead be more laid back so people are not so encumbered by them. ie: I can pretty do much do exactly what I want to in the game and most likely can participate in The Engineers in a way I'd want to, when I want to. ie: I never want to go farming wakes or USS over and over for random dice throws, just to get the right stamps, when the mechanics are as unchallenging and thin as they are.


In summary, I'd sugget many players are currently finding the new mechanics are degrading their game experience, if they want to participate in the The Engineers... Is that good?




Look, at the end of the, day you must either believe I/we who do not perceive The Engineers current mechanics as "ideal", and would like to see them adjusted, must be:-
1) Making it up?
2) Not understanding the game (which many of use have of course been playing for nigh on years)?
3) Actually are not enjoying the mechanics that have been employed?

If you believe it's (1) or (2), then the conversation ends really. If it's (3), and you can see that although you're OK/enjoying the new mechanics, others are not. And then you have two choices:-
1) You say, tough luck, you lot have to put up with it! Which in my case I can vouch it pushing me away from even playing. (How is that a good thing?)
2) You see if you can suggest how we can find a common ground/solution. The suggestion in the OP is an attempt at that. ie: People can continue doing just what they do at the moment, but in a less onerous fashion. Handing in materials as & when they wish, in a less "forced" fashion.
 
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It really...really seems like you basically want to remove any kind of thing that makes the process more involving and potentially complex, though I am sure some will argue that having to 'get' different things isn't complex, it is a level of complexity, that personally actually makes the mods feel like something earned.

I don't think anyone can rationally argue that the current system is in any way challenging or rewarding. I guess you could call it complex, in the sense that it requires you to do a lot of different things in a lot of different places for a lot of different materials. But that is where the complexity ends as the tasks you are required to do are among the simplest and dullest tasks Elite has to offer.

What NeilF is suggesting provides welcome relief for those of us that value our spare time highly enough to not want to go wake farming or rock collecting instead of actually enjoying the game. Sadly we are currently locked out of the Engineers upgrades because we have to do these things if we are to get anywhere. The only other option is to hope for a lucky material reward in a mission, which given the large amount of materials available is likely to never happen.

If the path to the upgrades was challenging, deep and rewarding I would have no issue with it taking a long time. As Obsidian Ant said in one of the other threads on the subject, it isn't about the amount of gameplay needed, it is about the quality. And wake farming, rock hunting and scanning random ships is not good gameplay. Not even close.

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*shrug* you can either accept that playing your way is going to require more effort, thought and patience or come here and complain it's just not easy enough I guess.

For someone who keeps complaining that others are being condescending to him, then you are doing a good job of it yourself. Please tell me how I, through effort thought and patience, can find a way around wake scan farming and SRV rock hunting? Aside from hoping for a lucky material reward in a mission I have simply got no choice but to engage in these tedious mechanics if I wish to get an Engineer upgrade. What does this add to the game? How does this make Elite better?
 
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For someone who keeps complaining that others are being condescending to him, then you are doing a good job of it yourself. Please tell me how I, through effort thought and patience, can find a way around wake scan farming and SRV rock hunting? Aside from hoping for a lucky material reward in a mission I have simply got no choice but to engage in these tedious mechanics if I wish to get an Engineer upgrade. What does this add to the game? How does this make Elite better?
I don't keep complaining, find me a single post where I whine about it. Please don't just make stuff up about other posters. I might comment on it or say something, but I have not "kept complaining"

How about getting a wake scanner and doing some wake scanning on your way through missions and things you were normally doing - i.e. effort and thought. How about doing a bunch of surface missions and doing some searching on the side?

You are proactively choosing, as Neil has above, to make this boring by treating the sidedishes like the main course - spending four hours eating coleslaw then complaining this 12 course meal is terrible. Entirely your choice and frankly lost all pity for it - none of the complainants have any interest in making the situation better for themselves.

"I went and did a boring thing and it was boring!" Well yeah. Stone the crows. Please don't make up things like me saying it was "noble" and then try and knock it on that basis, if you've got a decent point you can make it without resorting to fiction.
 
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If it were involved or complex or challenging, that would be good. But in reality, generally, they are not. As such the proposition is to make the best of a bad thing.
I don't think anyone can rationally argue that the current system is in any way challenging or rewarding. I guess you could call it complex

To both these, the same can be said about pretty much ANY game, ever that is suppressible difficult or complex, so I am unsure what is expected when you say complex, note I said 'potentially' complex, I did not say it is very complex, but it is certainly more then the suggested solution.

note NeilF you also write. "just to get the right stamps" in frustration with the random part of engineers, you are expecting it to be a perfect roll? the idea last I checked that the random part is, is engineer takes your module, and experiments with it, and tries to get it to function better, generally just like engineers irl, unlike irl, where engineers discard potential unwanted results, here the engineer first presents it to you, to discard or not. Basically you are seeing the process that you would not see irl, and one of the reasons R&D can be very expensive, there are likely a lot of non perfect results. And in my book, yes it can be annoying or unwanted, but that is part of experimentation?

Also to your comment viking84, about rationalise that the system is challenging or rewarding, I thoroughly enjoy even a grade 3 upgrade to my modules, they do quite a difference, so I would say they are rewarding, compared to stock, which is what I believe you should be comparing to, to stock, not against a 'perfect' roll or a perfect grade 5 roll, if you do that, then yeah, anything but the best will likely seem like a waste of time.
As for the challenging side, again, note I am saying potentially complex, not perfectly complex, or even 'very' complex, I would absolutely love a lot more complexity, but compared to, grind and hand in material x, get rep, use rep to get x, you know, basically the way the World of Warcraft rep works, it is more complex, because the way WoW works is very...very simple.

Here you need to find the materials, to do that you need to learn where they are, and go find them, as they have said several times it isn't entirely random, it is at best guided random. And given we now have an indicator of where what can be found with survey, that information can be easier put together to figure out the rules behind the random, so you even if you aren't at a survey location can find stuff.
Is 'drive around and shoot stuff you find on ground until you get what you want' a challenging/complicated mechanic? not really no, but having to find specific stuff versus just anything to build rep, is still more involving and makes me feel it is 'earned' more then the suggestion would.

I will admit, I get the impression that people want the best mod now, when I remember how people could grind for months in other games to get a certain legendary item or similar, which seems a lot of patience has been lost somewhere, a lot of sense of effort getting rewarded has been lost, because people are in many games now getting things handed to them without really doing any effort.

Now games are played to have fun, but at least to me, there is also fun in working towards getting something that is not easy or simple to get. Instead of just getting it handed to you.
If we switch to a simple grind method with 'rep' and such without needing materials, where rep can be purely used for cost and such, then at least in my eyes where we are heading towards a point where people just want to go to engineer, click a button, get what they want, and leave again, which at least to me makes the game pointless. Kinda how some people are frustrated with the AI being able to fight near player level now, where before I could take on a wing easy without even bothering worrying in my python, now? I need to think, judge and plan depending on situation, that is fun!
 
I don't keep complaining, find me a single post where I whine about it. Please don't just make stuff up about other posters. I might comment on it or say something, but I have not "kept complaining"
Only judging by your responses in the threads I have been in. Which are a fair few. But I'm sure it's not the only thing you do on the forums! Don't expect to complain (once or repeatedly) about others being condescending and then doing it again yourself though, that doesn't really sit well.

How about getting a wake scanner and doing some wake scanning on your way through missions and things you were normally doing - i.e. effort and thought. How about doing a bunch of surface missions and doing some searching on the side?
So doing something boring, but not doing it all the time, is a good way to get around it? I just don't understand why this is something that should be defended as a sensible addition to the game. Nobody enjoys wake scanning, why connect a reward to it? And why connect a reward that most players will wish to obtain? All that does is force (yes, force) players to do something they don't enjoy.

I keep asking this question: what does this actually add to the game? And the only answer I get is various ways to make it tolerable, or a suggestion to ignore it altogether.
 
What NeilF is suggesting provides welcome relief for those of us that value our spare time highly enough to not want to go wake farming or rock collecting instead of actually enjoying the game. Sadly we are currently locked out of the Engineers upgrades because we have to do these things if we are to get anywhere. The only other option is to hope for a lucky material reward in a mission, which given the large amount of materials available is likely to never happen.
I want to comment on this separately since I believe it is a separate issue.
The whole "I do not have time to do this" argument is one I understand very well, we have work, life and such, and everything in between, some of us do not have a lot of time for gaming. But here's the thing in my book at least, why do you need the mods? what is it you want the mods for? so you can do what you find fun? why aren't you doing that currently? you will eventually end up getting enough materials for stuff that way since that is what Elite is build around last I checked? I didn't need my level 3 clean drive tuning for my python to do combat with it, I did combat with it before, and enjoyed myself, getting the upgrades I am now getting is just icing on the cake, that help me have fun.
Expectations is really what is the issue it seems?

If you expect to be able to sit down and do massive insane battles, take on wings upon wings on your own and be the big space hero for an hour a day and only that, then yeah....maybe Elite isn't for you, the simulation part of Elite is going to cramp that, it isn't a dedicated action game, sit down shoot, it is more complex and involving then that.

We live in a very materialistic and competitive world (meant as pure technical fact, nothing philosophical), and it is easy to get swept into the "must have latest, greatest, x y z to have fun, be 'smart'" and such, and it affects games as well, but really...people need to let go off this and just enjoy the games they play if you ask me, because that is what a game is about, having fun, enjoying and relaxing in my book. And quote a number of people unfortunately get blocked from having fun by that material and competitive focus, sadly.
 
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Only judging by your responses in the threads I have been in. Which are a fair few. But I'm sure it's not the only thing you do on the forums! Don't expect to complain (once or repeatedly) about others being condescending and then doing it again yourself though, that doesn't really sit well.
Mate if someone is condescending to me I will say so, I'm not going to shut up and take it because you say so - you're literally only pixels to me. However your attempt to paint me as someone wandering around the forums whingng "oh why's everyone so condescending to me" is grossly unfair and you should sort yourself out.

If you can't cope with a little bit of wake scanning then it really is utterly farcical that you're trying to paint me as the snowflake - get a grip. If you have a point make it, dont' just belittle others - you've had your answer many times, you're choosing not to listen.
 
You are proactively choosing, as Neil has above, to make this boring by treating the sidedishes like the main course - spending four hours eating coleslaw then complaining this 12 course meal is terrible. Entirely your choice and frankly lost all pity for it - none of the complainants have any interest in making the situation better for themselves.
I stopped playing ED over week ago when, after reaching my max limit of materials I then had two choices:-
1) Start micro-managing the materials, most of which I really don't care about (super absorbant this, strange fuzzy that), so I could then simply carry on collect more...
2) Or do what I then did, which is visit an engineer to pro-actively use some of my materials up, to level up. I managed to spin the Wheel of Fortune a couple of times, gaining a fraction of a LY more jump range, but still leaving me with a massive lump of materials, which within probably a few hours would return me back to the same dilemna no doubt.

Furthermore, I even tried planning ahead, assuming at some point I would reach a high level and would need materials X, Y and Z, and noticed I had no Z. So I went actively looking for it. This involved me doing an aspect of gameplay I didn't enjoy, ultimately because it was a simplistic roll-dice mechanic threaded into a simplistic roll-dice mechanic.

So, far from The Engineers being a nice "side quest" it becomes onerous and fiddly and faffy...


If the rumours are true about The Engineers, what we see in the game now is a compromised solution. I've heard development time ran out, so a simpler alternative was implemented to what was desired. I don't know if this is true, but it feels like it is. If ranking up and collecting materials was more intelligent and challenging I don't think you'd see the complaints you are seeing. Because what we instead have are unchallenging new gameplay elements, of a very basic nature, threaded through existing gameplay, much of which in itself is fairly simplistic, making participating in The Engineers taudry and unnecessaily contrived. ie: Ultimately forcing individuals into behavour and areas of the game they simply do not enjoy, for no other reason than to roll the right numbers to collect the right sticker to put in their Engineers sticker book.

As I've said above to xondk, you can by all means tell myself (& others) we are making these issues up, not intelligent enough to understand the game we have been playing for year(s), or maybe just consider we are indeed really hitting an issue that is quite literally making us enjoy the game less.
 
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As I've said above to xondk, you can by all means tell myself (& others) we are making these issues up, not intelligent enough to understand the game we have been playing for year(s), or maybe just consider we are indeed realling hitting an issue that is quite literally making us enjoy the game less.
Are you referring to someone's earlier misunderstanding where a question was asked of Sandro - "can we rep up and get materials via missions from the Engineers instead?" and his response was "it would take a vast amount of work to make it be like that" - and what the user heard was "Your'e Right! This is what was intended, we're just crap"?

You realise you sound like this
"I need all this stuff!!!!"
article-2509190-197B583800000578-271_964x639.jpg


If you have too much stuff throw some away - you earnt it easily and casually playing the game you claim you enjoy - you will earn it again. There's no need to shove all your hoarded preciouses around in a shopping trolley like some interstellar hobo

Even all this planning ahead trying to jump future game hoops before even getting close to them...... this is all attempting to circumvent having to play the game to get the things, you just want to get the things. Play the game. The things will come - it's less than a month since launch.
 
Are you referring to someone's earlier misunderstanding where a question was asked of Sandro - "can we rep up and get materials via missions from the Engineers instead?" and his response was "it would take a vast amount of work to make it be like that" - and what the user heard was "Your'e Right! This is what was intended, we're just crap"?

You realise you sound like this
"I need all this stuff!!!!"
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/11/18/article-2509190-197B583800000578-271_964x639.jpg

If you have too much stuff throw some away - you earnt it easily and casually playing the game you claim you enjoy - you will earn it again. There's no need to shove all your hoarded preciouses around in a shopping trolley like some interstellar hobo

Even all this planning ahead trying to jump future game hoops before even getting close to them...... this is all attempting to circumvent having to play the game to get the things, you just want to get the things. Play the game. The things will come - it's less than a month since launch.

Fine... You've assumed I/we are making the issues up, or can't fathom how to play the game... Understood... I/we can't keep trying to explain our POV if all you infer is, "you're wrong"...
 
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Fine... You've assumed we're making our issues up, or we can't fathom how to play the game... Understood... I/we can't keep trying to explain our POV if all you infer is, "you're wrong"...
OK here's your reasons for stopping playing:
I stopped playing ED over week ago when, after reaching my max limit of materials I then had two choices:-
1) Start micro-managing the materials, most of which I really don't care about (super absorbant this, strange fuzzy that), so I could then simply carry on collect more...
2) Or do what I then did, which is visit an engineer to pro-actively use some of my materials up, to level up. I managed to spin the Wheel of Fortune a couple of times, gaining a fraction of a LY more jump range, but still leaving me with a massive lump of materials, which within probably a few hours would return me back to the same dilemna no doubt.

Furthermore, I even tried planning ahead, assuming at some point I would reach a high level and would need materials X, Y and Z, and noticed I had no Z. So I went actively looking for it. This involved me doing an aspect of gameplay I didn't enjoy, ultimately because it was a simplistic roll-dice mechanic threaded into a simplistic roll-dice mechanic.

So, far from The Engineers being a nice "side quest" it becomes onerous and fiddly and faffy...
So in (1) you've reached a point when you've had to throw stuff away. The easy solution is to throw stuff away but you've chosen not to take that.
In (2) you didn't get the roll you wanted.
In the unofficial (3) you've said that you've now started looking at blueprints you might want in the future and started trying to micromanage your resources for something far ahead.

If there are other reasons please feel free to elaborate, but to me the easy solution that is readily apparent is to not worry about things far ahead, dump all the stuff you got easily and get on playing the game you said you were enjoying - it's unaffected by all this. You are actively choosing to faff and micromanage for future needs to an extent that is spoiling the game, you are not being forced in any way whatsoever.
 
I will admit, I get the impression that people want the best mod now, when I remember how people could grind for months in other games to get a certain legendary item or similar, which seems a lot of patience has been lost somewhere, a lot of sense of effort getting rewarded has been lost, because people are in many games now getting things handed to them without really doing any effort.

Now games are played to have fun, but at least to me, there is also fun in working towards getting something that is not easy or simple to get. Instead of just getting it handed to you.
I think the main issue isn't the time it takes, but the lack of anything interesting to do during that time. I.e. you have to engage in the simple mechanics of wake scanning and SRV rock hunting because it is specifically those mechanics that give the rewards needed. I don't mind a good grind if the mechanics involved are fun :) They don't even have to be particularly challenging, but they should be fun. If they aren't, then at least the grind should be predictable so that the slow and steady progression is a reward in itself (like rank grinding has been). Sadly the current system is neither fun, nor predictably rewarding, so for me it is not something I even want to get started on.

Mate if someone is condescending to me I will say so, I'm not going to shut up and take it because you say so - you're literally only pixels to me. However your attempt to paint me as someone wandering around the forums whingng "oh why's everyone so condescending to me" is grossly unfair and you should sort yourself out.
You are absolutely right to call out anyone who is condescending in their posts. But calling someone out in one thread, and then being equally condescending in another isn't exactly cricket now is it. That is all I pointed out.


If you can't cope with a little bit of wake scanning then it really is utterly farcical that you're trying to paint me as the snowflake - get a grip. If you have a point make it, dont' just belittle others - you've had your answer many times, you're choosing not to listen.
Sorry, I'm not actually sure what you mean here. I am not trying to belittle others, everyone has their own tolerance for how much uninteresting game play they are willing to wade through to get to the good bits. I ground my way to a Cutter, so I evidently can tolerate a bit of it. The Engineers update however, was the straw that broke the camels back as it is the most blatant and obvious grind-based game play that the devs have introduced so far.

Your analogy of the meal was an interesting one as it shows the difference in how we view these activities:
You are proactively choosing, as Neil has above, to make this boring by treating the sidedishes like the main course - spending four hours eating coleslaw then complaining this 12 course meal is terrible. Entirely your choice and frankly lost all pity for it - none of the complainants have any interest in making the situation better for themselves.

I don't view these tasks as coleslaw (OK in the context of the rest of the meal, not something I'd enjoy as a main course), I view them as being served a lovely meal seasoned with gravel. I don't like eating gravel. Not even a little bit of it. I don't understand why they added gravel to the meal, and those who say "well, just push it aside if you don't like" are rather missing the point. If this is FDevs idea of good gameplay then I honestly fear for the rest of the meal.. er... game... you get the point :)
 
I don't view these tasks as coleslaw (OK in the context of the rest of the meal, not something I'd enjoy as a main course), I view them as being served a lovely meal seasoned with gravel. I don't like eating gravel. Not even a little bit of it. I don't understand why they added gravel to the meal, and those who say "well, just push it aside if you don't like" are rather missing the point. If this is FDevs idea of good gameplay then I honestly fear for the rest of the meal.. er... game... you get the point :)
I suspect if you ask the devs if this is meant to be coleslaw or steak+chips they'll say 1.6 is the steak and chips, 2.1 is the coleslaw. And you're gonna feel ill if that's all you eat - you're bang on about this being the point of confusion and what everything orbits around. To me the focus on doing all the engineers stuff in a hurry is totally the tail wagging the dog - letting a .1 update totally rule how you play the game isn't likely to be fun and all I really want is for folk to go back to having fun like they say they were before rather than upsetting themselves actively trying to use a toy horse like a motorbike and complaining it won't go fast enough
 
OK here's your reasons for stopping playing:

So in (1) you've reached a point when you've had to throw stuff away. The easy solution is to throw stuff away but you've chosen not to take that.
In (2) you didn't get the roll you wanted.
In the unofficial (3) you've said that you've now started looking at blueprints you might want in the future and started trying to micromanage your resources for something far ahead.

If there are other reasons please feel free to elaborate, but to me the easy solution that is readily apparent is to not worry about things far ahead, dump all the stuff you got easily and get on playing the game you said you were enjoying - it's unaffected by all this. You are actively choosing to faff and micromanage for future needs to an extent that is spoiling the game, you are not being forced in any way whatsoever.

So again, you're seemingly infurring I'm either stupid or don't know what I'm doing?


I'll attempt to answer you're question, but if your response is another veiled, "well, you're dim", or "you don't know what you're doing," I'd suggest don't bother?

So yes, I reach my X hundred limit, and threw away X dozen of some material I couldn't care less about because I had a lot of it... And then a while later... Did the same... And then... I see nothing positive about this mechanic? I see this adding nothing to the game other than pointless faff.

I don't care if I don't roll what I wanted. It's the fact that undoubtably, if I go to do some crafting, it will give me a shopping list, which if I don't have Y and Z, I will have to go and get them. If this was intelligent or challenging, it might be OK. But what's been added (IMHO) really isn't. It's simply a smoke screen mechanic to imply as such. Go and do this for a while to show you're worthy. And worse still, it may well be something you really do not enjoy. I see this as adding nothing to the game other than pointless faff.

And let's remind ourself out this point, this isn't about fast tracking crafting, but instead making it "smoother". With the proposed change, when I get close to filling up with materials, I'd simply go to the Engineer(s) I'm interested, and give them the materials I can, and see how much that's levelled me up. I can see at this point some people complaining "simpler" is bad... but why when the alternative is not challenging (to some) but simply onerous - Go and do this thing you find unchallenging and unrewarding for X hours... I see this as adding nothing to the game other than pointless faff.


So again, if you don't understand these concerns, that's fine. But remember different people have different likes and dislikes etc. Don't assume just because someone doesn't agree with you that they are wrong. They may simply be different. And that's OK!
 
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I'll attempt to answer you're question, but if your response is another veiled, "well, you're dim", or "you don't know what you're doing," I'd suggest don't bother?
it's never been that and I apologise if it's felt that way - it's just been "You are choosing to make this miserable for yourself, you may be little the tail wag the dog"

You've stopped playing because you don't want to take part much in a .1 release of some new features to a game, none of which you have to do. There's no "you're worthy", just seeing other bits of game at worst rather than just one bit repeatedly - a stated goal of the devs for some time.

I like different - but you are telling the devs they are wrong, that the tail is the most important part - that until you can eat solely coleslaw all day and not feel sick you refuse to join in the banquet. Choosing to do something in an onerous manner is not "wrong", it's just not fun as so many posts attest.
 
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letting a .1 update totally rule how you play the game isn't likely to be fun and all I really want is for folk to go back to having fun like they say they were before rather than upsetting themselves actively trying to use a toy horse like a motorbike and complaining it won't go fast enough

I would normally agree on this point, but this .1 update includes pretty significant changes to how our ships can function, and has had 6 months of hype building up to release. I agree that FDev intended this to be a side dish, but what they did instead was create a worm eating contest with a grand prize. Whoever can eat the most horrid food (scans enough wakes, finds enough Polonium) gets a reward in the form of a nice upgrade. They forgot to make the process itself enjoyable, while still making the rewards very tempting. It shouldn't be a surprise to anyone that that is a bad idea.

Note that I would have loved it if these upgrades could have come as a part of playing the game like I always have. But they wont. I HAVE to go searching for materials on a planet, and I HAVE to scan wakes. I can do it as rarely or as often as I choose, but I can't ignore it completely unless I am unusually lucky and get the materials for running a mission.
 
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I agree that FDev intended this to be a side dish, but what they did instead was create a worm eating contest with a grand prize.
lol :D i prefer these food analogies they work out funny

i totally blame the SFX hype and the immediate arming of all NPCs with upgrades for this situation tbh, with less urgency it'd have come over quite differently to folk. it's pressured some into treating this whole addition in an unintended and not-fun way, all we can really do is try and accept that and move on - gutting it so people don't ever have to try anything new or all loot becomes just "engineering cash" to exchange between purposes at will ruins half it's purpose - that people try new things, especially newbies who risk getting railroaded by "get an annie in four hours!" guides
 
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