PvP An Investigation Into Frontier's Actions on Combat Logging, Part 2

[RidingTheFlow]

You're drawing examples from criminal, not contract, law.

Ok, here is another example which is more suited for the purpose.
You come to the entertainment venue with a blowhorn and start disrupting other customers experience on the grounds that "its my blowhorn, and I will do whatever I want with it".

Owner of the premises will most likely not go to court over it - but they will simply eject you from the venue.

If *you* will try to drag them to court on the grounds that "they didn't allow me to use blowhorn I've owned the way I wanted", you will lose. Because not disrupting other people experience was in fact in the contract between you and venue owner.

 

[Deleted member 115407]

It's cheating, so frowning should be the default facial expression. I am frowning as I type. And indeed, that's why PGs exist. If you know you are unwilling to engage in PvP, there are other modes more suited for you.

Furthermore, while being very critical of past actions of SDC, you cannot hold that against them when they focus attention on an act of cheating. It doesn't matter who reports it when it's factual and done honestly. That only deserves kudos.

That's called principles, people.

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

Well the rules apply to solo the same as they do to any other mode but unless a player is going to report themselves it's very unlikely that anything will be done. If they ever do implement some form of automated policing of it though it obviously should affect solo in the same way as any other mode and that would be a wholly good thing unless you happen to be someone who believes that games should be completely devoid of any negative consequences, thereby rendering the traditional risk/reward equation completely irrelevant. I don't really grasp what satisfaction people can find in that.

I mean in solo the only thing that is ever going to kill you is spectacularly misjudging a fight against an npc. Not sure how long you've been gaming (or whether you took the same break between about 1999 and 2014 that quite a few people posting on here seem to have done...) but it used to be the case that the only two ways you could avoid a death in a PVE based game were either the fabled git gud, or by using a godmode cheat. Ooh look, it's that word again.

That's leaving aside the fact that as several people have mentioned, solo =/= single player mode. You're still affecting the BGS in solo.

As for 'social multiplayer', there is no social-only multiplayer mode, so that leaves you with the two existing multiplayer modes. Of those, if you can find a bunch of people who want the same experience as you you can play exclusively with those in a private group and make up whatever rules you want, although even then you shouldn't be combat logging because game rules have precedence over any individual private group's rules.

If you're in open though, yeah you can play 'social multiplayer' if you want but you need to accept that some other players may want to play differently and no matter what your opinion of their playstyle is, it does not give you the right to ignore game rules. Nothing gives you, me or any other player the right to ignore game rules.

I honestly have no idea why this is such a hard concept to grasp because it really is the absolute frakking basics of playing with other people.

Im assuming most of what you mentioned here could be addressed this year. Beyond changes are a great time to fix most of these problems.

My fingers are crossed.

 

[Deleted member 115407]

Just some basic points on this in the order they happen and the implications

1. I buy a PC - This is now my property and I have the right to decide what I do with it, when it is on and what it is connected to at all times.
2. I accept an EULA from Microsoft that gives permission to use the software as intended - This includes the task manager and 'Alt+F4' to kill any tasks that I chose, see above for reasons why.
3. I buy a license for a game such as Elite and accept the EULA which not only contradicts point number 2 but also tries to limit my ability to control my own hardware.

In short there is no way that any games company can stop me from doing anything with property that I own i.e. The hardware.

No, but they reserve every right to stop you from doing anything with property that they own, i.e. the game servers.

 

[CMDR pollycough]

Once! only once

Spoiler

[/IMG]

Ok I logged 4 accounts on The Code after they spent 2 weeks planning the heist,, But Once!

 

[Stigbob]

FD unlike Rockstar allows full access to all of the game's content in each and every mode. There is zero reason for someone that wants to play ED with others but without PVP dynamics (especially now that board swapping offers no new missions) to enter and play in the open without a genuine desire to play in that wild west mentality and if they do, they themselves are griefing the PVP'ers and arguably far more so than any PVP aggressive act PVE'ers have cried about.

I have zero desire to compete with other souls/ pvp as I'm a cooperative at core, yet, if I were at the FD helm, I would change the log out time from 15 secs to 3 bloody minutes (or whatever) in open mode.

There, fixed it ---well kinda

As long as they ditch the timed confirmation so I can log out and walk away I couldn't care less how long it is. Sometimes real life means you really have to log off.

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

As long as they ditch the timed confirmation so I can log out and walk away I couldn't care less how long it is. Sometimes real life means you really have to log off.

Welp, League of Legends bans people if they go AFK or repeat offenders of toxic behavior. Leaving the game is one of them. If you know you have to deal with that sort of thing. You have other modes to chose from.

If people can engineer 9 hours a day, Honk jump and Scoop, to dodge stars. Then all of a sudden they have to logout the minute they get interdicted by another player. I call Horse Hockey.

And so do other gaming companies. Frontier is not special here. If other companies can do this. So can they.

 

[Deleted member 115407]

Congratulations. You've just proved to everyone that you have no idea what you're talking about, and all you're doing is trying to fuel the notion that "engineered ships are invincible and open is impossible to survive in because gankers".

Lesson 1: highwakes are not affected by masslock at all. Watch this encounter where I very easily escape a godroll engineered python (masslock factor 17) in my completely unmodded Type-7 (masslock factor 10) with a simple and easy highwake.

There is zero need to combat log in this situation at all. You can even keep watching to the part where I deal with a station suicidewinder easily without resorting to combat logging at all. It's amazing!

I repped you, not for the point you made (which was a perfectly good and reasonable point), but rather for the rainbow text. Which made me lol, literally.

 

[Deleted member 115407]

It's quite telling that still, after all that time and all that complains, no dedicated PvP group exists (as some sort of counterpart to Moebius). This only can mean one or more of the following: PvPer are either not able or not all too interested in socializing, or simply are that low in numbers that they are irrelevant anyway. In either case all what's left is irrelevance and thus this whole 'scandal' just a huge ball of hot air.

There are definitely small PvP groups that exist out there. As for the general population interested in PvP... why would they need to form a Mobius-like group, if Open already provides the environment that they're looking for.

Your post doesn't make any sense.

 

[DukeIronHand]

It's quite telling that still, after all that time and all that complains, no dedicated PvP group exists (as some sort of counterpart to Moebius). This only can mean one or more of the following: PvPer are either not able or not all too interested in socializing, or simply are that low in numbers that they are irrelevant anyway. In either case all what's left is irrelevance and thus this whole 'scandal' just a huge ball of hot air.

I believe you missed a third and far more likely reason for no dedicated PvP group - they might get hurt!
It's one thing to jump Adders and T9's, piloted by Cmdr's just trying to enjoy the game.
It's quite another to be "trapped" in a group with fellow gankers in equally Engineered Death Machines! They might get hurt.
Your own salt it no good! Wonder what the CL rate would be there. Anyone want to honestly take a guess?

 

[Stigbob]

Welp, League of Legends bans people if they go AFK or repeat offenders of toxic behavior. Leaving the game is one of them. If you know you have to deal with that sort of thing. You have other modes to chose from.

If people can engineer 9 hours a day, Honk jump and Scoop, to dodge stars. Then all of a sudden they have to logout the minute they get interdicted by another player. I call Horse Hockey.

And so do other gaming companies. Frontier is not special here. If other companies can do this. So can they.

I didn't buy league of legends when it was being sold as having an offline solo mode, so it looks like FDEV will just have to put up with any connectivity issues resulting from them Darth Vadering the deal.

You'll also have to put up with being a lot less important to me than pretty much anything from the telephone, the dogs barking to me quite fancying a cup of coffee.

I'll log out (via menu) whenever I like you have no more input in that than you have in which mode I select in the first place.

 

[Deleted member 115407]

I believe you missed a third and far more likely reason for no dedicated PvP group - they might get hurt!
It's one thing to jump Adders and T9's, piloted by Cmdr's just trying to enjoy the game.
It's quite another to be "trapped" in a group with fellow gankers in equally Engineered Death Machines! They might get hurt.
Your own salt it no good! Wonder what the CL rate would be there. Anyone want to honestly take a guess?

Again... you people aren't making any sense.

 

[Logios]

I believe you missed a third and far more likely reason for no dedicated PvP group - they might get hurt!
It's one thing to jump Adders and T9's, piloted by Cmdr's just trying to enjoy the game.
It's quite another to be "trapped" in a group with fellow gankers in equally Engineered Death Machines! They might get hurt.
Your own salt it no good! Wonder what the CL rate would be there. Anyone want to honestly take a guess?

So true. That's also why there's no one on CQC despite so many people who purport to love "PvP". They'd have to fight on an equal playing field instead of interdicting weaponless Type-6s who have no chance of fighting back.

 

[Deleted member 115407]

Do you really want to hear reasons? There are plenty. And I'm not talking about a few tiny fractions of PGs but THE huge unifying PvP group for all that really *want* PvP. Unlike the current Open that is full of rose tinted new players who unsuspectingly slipped into Open. In such a group you should expect combat logging being an extremely rare occasion. Most PvP problems solved.

lol - "unsuspectingly slipped into open"? Come on, man.

So true. That's also why there's no one on CQC despite so many people who purport to love "PvP". They'd have to fight on an equal playing field instead of interdicting weaponless Type-6s who have no chance of fighting back.

Here's a video of one such occasion.

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...a-friend-under-attack-from-another-CMDR-(vid)

 

[ryan_m]

So true. That's also why there's no one on CQC despite so many people who purport to love "PvP". They'd have to fight on an equal playing field instead of interdicting weaponless Type-6s who have no chance of fighting back.

If you think CQC is an equal playing field, you are mistaken, my friend. Powerups rule the game, and ships are locked behind a ranking system that is terrible to progress through.

That being said, here's a link to the PvP Hub discord whose sole purpose is to facilitate fair PvP between opponents. There's currently 712 people in the discord, and we've logged well over 1k fights since it launched. There is a defined rule set for fights and a matchmaking bot to help with fair teams.

 

[Deleted member 115407]

So much lost the base that you don't need to care about new players anymore? Not sure what high horse you're flying but I doubt you're more of a 'veteran' than me (if that's your problem).

I just think you're being ridiculous. That's all.

 

[Anon Sin]

Very well done Rinzler/SDC. I am so fed up with the general developer/publishers attitudes towards their player base (not just ED). Treating use like morons and seeing us as nothing more than potential whales,whilst at the same time producing subpar content and palming off any criticism with lies and falsehoods.
Do we gamers really want another gaming collapse like in the late 80's.early 90's because that will happen if we let it and more fool use if it does happen!
Keep up the good fight SDC o7

 

[seko]

only read it briefly, but I think this relates to using code to change the gameplay

So true. That's also why there's no one on CQC despite so many people who purport to love "PvP". They'd have to fight on an equal playing field instead of interdicting weaponless Type-6s who have no chance of fighting back.

well said that man +rep

 

[Ian Doncaster]

It's quite telling that still, after all that time and all that complains, no dedicated PvP group exists (as some sort of counterpart to Moebius). This only can mean one or more of the following: PvPer are either not able or not all too interested in socializing, or simply are that low in numbers that they are irrelevant anyway. In either case all what's left is irrelevance and thus this whole 'scandal' just a huge ball of hot air.

How exactly would a PvP equivalent to Mobius work? "We saw you shooting at an NPC so we're kicking you out"?

So true. That's also why there's no one on CQC despite so many people who purport to love "PvP". They'd have to fight on an equal playing field instead of interdicting weaponless Type-6s who have no chance of fighting back.

And by "no one" you mean "plenty of people playing matches most nights", right?

Just because you don't play it doesn't mean no-one else does (see also Open, Multicrew, Powerplay, Elite Dangerous)

If you think CQC is an equal playing field, you are mistaken, my friend.

Indeed. I enjoy CQC and play it a lot, but anyone who thinks "everyone's in roughly the same sort of ship" automatically means "fair fight" has clearly never tried it.

and ships are locked behind a ranking system that is terrible to progress through.

I think that's a way better description of the main game Fed/Imp unlock grind and the engineering system than it is of the CQC unlocks (where a decent player could get almost everything worth having in a day)

 

[Maka Gucci]

well said that man +rep

Not really, it's cus I don't want to have to wait 20-30 minutes to get a game while not doing anything else. Along with the system of having to go through that scenario a heap of times before I can use anything I actually want to use. I love PvP in this game and others for the ability to try out different builds and for the anxiety that comes with the challenge you get from facing other players along with the risk of losing what I have (Being interdicted in this game/Being invaded in Dark Souls).

Only 1 of those 3 things is available in CQC, if you can get a game at all.

There are loads of PvPers who do it for the challenge, what you're talking about is griefers, don't lump us all together just because it's easy to, it's lazy.