Even so, allowing a group to blackmail you is setting a bad precedent. Two wrongs don't make a right.
An investigation into Frontier's actions on Combat Logging
- Thread starter ryan_m
- Start date
Even so, allowing a group to blackmail you is setting a bad precedent. Two wrongs don't make a right.
Why does everyone consider the choice to use a P2P network architecture for this game a bad game design decision? Its advantages are what make Elite's combat model possible. It's the reason they you determine if you hit your target and not the RNG not he server. If you want all of the advantages of a client/server based network model you would have to give up Elite's combat model for one which works more like EVE.
Then they shouldn't lie, saying we are investigating, plz give us videos of proof, you give it to them and they don't even bother looking... that's really unprofessional at the very least.. If I lie in my job a lot, you know what happens? I lose my job. Same happens here... when you lie to your customers all over the place, I can give you numerous examples, you push your customers away... as it is happening.... I remember and I was very very amused by some FD lovers the other time, some months back, when someone was pointing out that the increasing number of bugs are affecting the steam user base (it was dropping like hell), and you know what a well known "independent" FD lover said? Steam is just a sample of the customer base, you can't say that the players stop playing ED or reduce their time in game just from steam stats.. REALLY? WEll the majority of ppl I know have moved from base launcher to steam for their own convenience... You don't go the other way around... ...FD needs to start being 100% sincere ... and cut the lies (in order not to use other wording).
Sorry but when there is flaw of "cheating", you close the gap, you don't let it be because maybe you lose some clients... But unfortunately they lose customers all over the place, imo combat logging is just 1 little tip of the iceberg... P2P networking structure, unlimited bugs affecting the everyday gameplay (especially when it has to do with more than a solo commander, etc) and much more... all together these make makes their customer base drop.
Nah I talk (as well as other commanders about the P2P Networking joke here.. have a look and comment too
Javert
Volunteer Moderator
One other thing.
If you want to accuse FD of being "Liars", do you actually have the evidence to back it up?
Do you have links to posts or documents from FD, or emails from support or suchlike, that clearly say:
1) "We review all videos submitted with all reports and tickets / We always watch every video submitted in any ticket."
2) "We have reviewed this video."
3) "We conduct a fully detailed review of every single combat logging report and write a detailed 30 page report about it (slightly sarcastic but you get my point)."
Before you accuse them of being liars, you should present the evidence of the actual lie that they made.
Without that, it seems to me that the accusation is based on your assumption of what you think FD should be doing, rather than actual proof of a lie. As has been pointed out by me and several others, I suspect they don't pay any attention to a single report of combat logging by any particular player, regardless of the level of proof provided.
You would be better off by presenting real world evidence, supported by videos, of the same player combat logging many many times over a sustained period of time, combined with all the reports and ticket numbers that you submitted. Obviously you would have to do that on another location since that would be naming and shaming here on these forums. This would demonstrate that they are not linking the reports against the same player together in any way.
Once again, I am against combat logging and I think it's totally stupid - I mean if you are going to combat log, why play in open in the first place? But, it's very difficult to prove in a P2P game architecture.
I would also like to hazard that if you ban a combat logging player, they are probably just going to stop playing, or play in a private group or solo from then on, so either way, you probably won't get to attack them again.
If you want to accuse FD of being "Liars", do you actually have the evidence to back it up?
Do you have links to posts or documents from FD, or emails from support or suchlike, that clearly say:
1) "We review all videos submitted with all reports and tickets / We always watch every video submitted in any ticket."
2) "We have reviewed this video."
3) "We conduct a fully detailed review of every single combat logging report and write a detailed 30 page report about it (slightly sarcastic but you get my point)."
Before you accuse them of being liars, you should present the evidence of the actual lie that they made.
Without that, it seems to me that the accusation is based on your assumption of what you think FD should be doing, rather than actual proof of a lie. As has been pointed out by me and several others, I suspect they don't pay any attention to a single report of combat logging by any particular player, regardless of the level of proof provided.
You would be better off by presenting real world evidence, supported by videos, of the same player combat logging many many times over a sustained period of time, combined with all the reports and ticket numbers that you submitted. Obviously you would have to do that on another location since that would be naming and shaming here on these forums. This would demonstrate that they are not linking the reports against the same player together in any way.
Once again, I am against combat logging and I think it's totally stupid - I mean if you are going to combat log, why play in open in the first place? But, it's very difficult to prove in a P2P game architecture.
I would also like to hazard that if you ban a combat logging player, they are probably just going to stop playing, or play in a private group or solo from then on, so either way, you probably won't get to attack them again.
Nice investigation. Just keep at it. Cancer won't be cured in a day, it takes many different groups, lots of research and experimentation, and plenty of peer review.
You can't expect results overnight from such a small sample size. Establish some foundations, build on patterns of behaviour and cross reference everything.
Just because someone admits something it's not compelling evidence.
Build you case.
Keep up the good work.
You can't expect results overnight from such a small sample size. Establish some foundations, build on patterns of behaviour and cross reference everything.
Just because someone admits something it's not compelling evidence.
Build you case.
Keep up the good work.
YouTube records the view, whether you're anonymous or not.
If Id actually meet others thatd be great!
You have it exactly.
This company was built to sell games and make a profit, not swoon over ideological purists.
Ignore combat logging and sell more games. Simple as that.
LOL I just saw this after I edited my post. So, yeah
I think everyone is in agreement that it's a cancerous issue that needs to removed and anyone who thinks otherwise needs their head examined, or a sound blanket party drubbing.
Artemis Zodiac
Banned
guys guys....theres a place out there on the webs where one can obtain super invincible powers and have jump ranges of a thargoid and your worried about combat logging....
exploits?......sadly CL is nothing compared to whats available if one looks about.
been going for a long time....and still does it seems....sadly
for me though solo mode do what you like.
exploits?......sadly CL is nothing compared to whats available if one looks about.
been going for a long time....and still does it seems....sadly
for me though solo mode do what you like.
could you be more specific? the only thing that p2p arch makes possible in this context is frontier not having to maintain a big server to track the state, since the clients do most of the job. this has nothing to do with any combat model, hitting targets or not, or pseudo random numbers.
It's not that simple. If more players quit the game because they got angry about combat logging, then FD would sell more games (game add-ons, skins…) if they did something against combat logging.
I guess they have to find the balance between punishing combat-loggers and appeasing anti-combat-loggers.
I don't combat log as I don't play in open and so I dont meet the wonderful commanders that inspire its use. I also agree it's and exploit but this line...
Ha. Ha. Ha. Ha. Ha. Ha. <Deep breath>, Ganking Richards that are only trying to enhance other players experiences are now the Victims!?! Ha. Ha. Ha. Ha. Ha. Ha. Ha. Ha. No.
Ha. Ha. Ha. Ha. Ha. Ha. <Deep breath>, Ganking Richards that are only trying to enhance other players experiences are now the Victims!?! Ha. Ha. Ha. Ha. Ha. Ha. Ha. Ha. No.
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Perhaps YouTube was lying, or the OP was lying .....
..... whichever way seems to be a mountain out of a molehill, certainly not a big issue.
G
If they banned people for griefing, by how much would their customer base be reduced? 0.1%?
If there was no griefing or a good way to avoid griefers, there would be much less combat logging. If getting destroyed was less devastating, there'd also be less CLing. The OP is complaining about symptoms, not the illness - if you want to call it that. IMHO FD are doing just the right thing - ignoring CL, at least until they find a real cure.
The OP is well written and investigated, so kudos for that. While I have never combat logged myself, I truthfully can’t get very upset over this issue, because the game as is now is horribly unbalanced in favor of the griefers as opposed to the victims from a risk vs reward standpoint.
Yep, exactly how I feel.
I’ve been the victim of griefers in the past, it’s why I left open and stick to private groups now. That’s the defense I chose over CL’ing. Honestly, from my victim point of view, the part that stood out for me the most out of the entire OP was this:
And this is the crux of the disagreement between the griefers and the victims: what is “meaningful interaction” for the griefers is NOT likewise for the majority of the victims. The bully has fun while the bullied dies and loses credits and more. And while yes there are some peaceful players who are okay with being ganked and attacked in open they are the minority, not the majority.
“Human element” does NOT need to equal “kill every player”. I’ve had tons of meaningful interactions in Elite solely as a peaceful explorer and it’s been great fun. Not once did I contemplate killing any of them, nor feeling the need to in order to “have fun”.
Until a working crime and punishment mechanic gets implemented into the game to even the playing field, I just sadly can’t be bothered to care about this issue. And I have a hunch that if crime and punishment were implemented that a lot of the griefers would be crying foul over how unfair it is. Balance has a tendency to do that though.
NOW, with regards to how logging affects straight up PvP in the likes of combat zones or Power Play, then yeah I agree it’s a cheap and cowardly way out and it should be addressed.
And as for the PvE players who CL against NPC’s, eh, who really cares about that? Let them, it isn’t hurting anyone, lol.
Yep, exactly how I feel.
I’ve been the victim of griefers in the past, it’s why I left open and stick to private groups now. That’s the defense I chose over CL’ing. Honestly, from my victim point of view, the part that stood out for me the most out of the entire OP was this:
And this is the crux of the disagreement between the griefers and the victims: what is “meaningful interaction” for the griefers is NOT likewise for the majority of the victims. The bully has fun while the bullied dies and loses credits and more. And while yes there are some peaceful players who are okay with being ganked and attacked in open they are the minority, not the majority.
“Human element” does NOT need to equal “kill every player”. I’ve had tons of meaningful interactions in Elite solely as a peaceful explorer and it’s been great fun. Not once did I contemplate killing any of them, nor feeling the need to in order to “have fun”.
Until a working crime and punishment mechanic gets implemented into the game to even the playing field, I just sadly can’t be bothered to care about this issue. And I have a hunch that if crime and punishment were implemented that a lot of the griefers would be crying foul over how unfair it is. Balance has a tendency to do that though.
NOW, with regards to how logging affects straight up PvP in the likes of combat zones or Power Play, then yeah I agree it’s a cheap and cowardly way out and it should be addressed.
And as for the PvE players who CL against NPC’s, eh, who really cares about that? Let them, it isn’t hurting anyone, lol.
A sting operation! Yes!
Great job, Rinzler.
Great job, Rinzler.