An investigation into Frontier's actions on Combat Logging

[{SAS}Stalker]

Hey guys, you've probably seen but I did post a reply on Reddit.

Here's the details.

===

"Thanks for bringing this to our attention.

First of all, I would like to take a moment to assure you that combat logging is against the rules and it’s something that we actively review and action on a regular basis. We have internal processes which we follow to ensure that the reviews are dealt with in a fair and thorough way. We use a number of data points and telemetry to help guide our decision and every report is treated on a case by case basis. There are a number of factors included in that process but we don’t share details of how we action rule breakers as this would give people an advantage in circumventing those checks, should someone be inclined to do so.

However, after looking into the reports that you’ve highlighted here and taking a moment to review them in more detail I can confirm that on this occasion we didn’t follow the processes that we set out and subsequently these reports were not actioned. While we don’t tend to talk about individual reports (even ones like this) we feel that it’s important to give you an open, honest and transparent answer to your post. I must stress that this is absolutely not typical of our standard review and reporting process and this mistake was completely unintentional.

I would like to apologise for the error and thank you for bringing it to our attention. By doing so you’ve helped us to review and make improvements to our existing process which lets us deliver the best possible support for our community.

I also want to add though that reports are still very important to us. We have hundreds of thousands of Commanders playing and while cheating and rule breaking is very small within the Elite Dangerous community it is still something that we do review and take very seriously. Please do continue to submit reports of rule breaking with as much detail as possible and we will endeavour to review these and take action where needed. "

If the issue is, as you say "very important to you" then why do you allow forum members to actively promote it on this very forum? Why like naming and shaming is it not stamped on quickly by the mods?

Its never going to get any better whilst its openly accepted on your own very forum. Just look at the polls, around half your forum members things its a mixture of "acceptable" and "great to mine tears from". By association you are condoning it.

 

[Charles Erika von Hackbeil]

You know who I see combat logging 90% of the time?

The people you call gankers, griefers, and seal clubbers - flying combat-spec Cutters, Vettes, Vultures, FDLs - carrying 5,6,7 figure bounties.

Let that sink in a moment.

A guy in a starter system, shooting newbies in a combat-spec Cutter with a $700,000 bounty is logging - because he's being interdicted by a guy who isn't a quick kill. Or the guy in the combat FDL, who logged 4 times in a hour after a wingmate and I (flying DBSs) were trying to clean up the system.

Then tell me again I'm the problem, because I choose to hunt CMDRs who are WANTED in the system.

You are obviously not the problem.

The way you do it is how I understand "...hunting players..." from the ad. Legitmate bounty hunting. But the same guy in the cutter, he´s got his 700000cr bounty from killing noobs. He must have killed a pretty many of them. What do you think, how is the proportion of PvP players playing your way to PvP players playing the "noob killer Cutter" way?

 

[Theodrid]

Pretty sure reputation is something that's entirely earned by your actions.

If only that were true and it couldn't be damaged by others.......

 

[Vingtetun]

Thanks for the update Zac. If this sorry thread has helped your team up the game in terms of spotting these things then despite the unnecessary and rude vitriol being spouted it seems to have had a positive effect.

As the manager of a large player group I can separately confirm that I am aware of at least 3 instances where players have received and had to serve shadow bans for either combat logging or being caught doing naughty things so they DO happen and are enforced where caught.

Luckily not our group members but from people we regularly engage with and enjoy game time against.

 

[Asp Explorer]

It's all simply forum meta to get a certain group legitimised and acknowledged to be in a position of "Look at what we made FD do!", and that is all it is.

 

[BeDoomed]

People that are commenting "Combat logging in Open is used because this is their only option to have a PvE variety of the environment".

I hate to break it to those guys, but you can have a PvE environment with like minded people if you join the Mobius Group, group that covers both PC and Xbox with thousands of players on board.

If you don't want the risk of PvP, join the group and you will get a chance to meet other commanders and yet not have to worry about being attacked by them.


The most serious problem that I have seen (not personal experience but from various youtube videos), where a commander gets attacked, he fights back skillfully to the point where the attacker is about to die, so the attacker combat logs. Now that is what you call the lowest of the low form of cheating.

 

[Pyrotiger]

While we don’t tend to talk about individual reports (even ones like this) we feel that it’s important to give you an open, honest and transparent answer to your post.

OK, so with due respect where is this fair, honest and transparent answer? Talking about giving it and actually giving it are two separate things.

It certainly is professional PR and I know you are doing your job - and I am not criticising that. However, it lacks facts and figures and saying you are withholding info just to keep abuses down is a very good get-out clause. So, therefore it cannot be a transparent reply! And is it really just on this occasion you haven't followed your own rules?

Anyway, time will tell.

 

[Karunamon]

If only that were true and it couldn't be damaged by others.......

Pretty sure FD's reputation is being damaged by their own actions.

 

[The Wallet Inspector]

If the issue is, as you say "very important to you" then why do you allow forum members to actively promote it on this very forum? Why like naming and shaming is it not stamped on quickly by the mods?

Its never going to get any better whilst its openly accepted on your own very forum. Just look at the polls, around half your forum members things its a mixture of "acceptable" and "great to mine tears from". By association you are condoning it.

Did the fact that he responds on Reddit firsts not say something about this forum community and what the devs actually think of it? I don't blame them.

 

[Cosmos]

If the issue is, as you say "very important to you" then why do you allow forum members to actively promote it on this very forum? Why like naming and shaming is it not stamped on quickly by the mods?

Its never going to get any better whilst its openly accepted on your own very forum. Just look at the polls, around half your forum members things its a mixture of "acceptable" and "great to mine tears from". By association you are condoning it.

Yes, its a curious situation.

 

[iFred]

I really hope there is some action taken against those guys making a problem - which is obviously just a problem for a very very tiny part of the community - appearing in worldwide gaming media reducing Frontiers reputation AND directly influencing the sales of Elite Dangerous. This has to be against the TOS. But Zacs statement will not help though :/

 

[Itaki]

I think it's funny that people report other people for combat logging. LoL Kinda like elementary school.

 

[frostypaw]

People that are commenting "Combat logging in Open is used because this is their only option to have a PvE variety of the environment".

I hate to break it to those guys, but you can have a PvE environment with like minded people if you join the Mobius Group, group that covers both PC and Xbox with thousands of players on board.

If you don't want the risk of PvP, join the group and you will get a chance to meet other commanders and yet not have to worry about being attacked by them.

If only this was true.

Experience shows some of the PvPers were specifically after non-consensual PvP so they join these groups and continue their griefing. Mobius admin do their best, but they receive no help from FDev as I understand it.

With no decent C+P in place at all the game has attracted quite a few people of a certain character - it shines forth in their every communication not just their actions.

 

[thorn-]

Zac, how long are Frontier going to tolerate having game development and Frontiers reputation in the media dictated to them in this fashion by minority agenda driven groups?

Blame the players who complain about cheating. Cute.

 

[hookandsling]

This is a good thing.
People on here have openly condoned logging which is an exploit as per FDev. There's overwhelming evidence in some cases and no action has been taken.

That is wrong. It has to be wrong.
There is no situation where unchecked cheating doesn't hurt a game. Any game. Chess. Athletics..

Accepting and normalising this because it's currently too easy to kill people is the wrong choice.
Ethically I know that even though I'm getting killed.
But more than this it ensures that the problems in the game don't get fixed.

If this is what it takes to fix Crime and Punishment then, sadly, so be it.

 

[BeDoomed]

If only this was true.

Experience shows some of the PvPers were specifically after non-consensual PvP so they join these groups and continue their griefing. Mobius admin do their best, but they receive no help from FDev as I understand it.

With no decent C+P in place at all the game has attracted quite a few people of a certain character - it shines forth in their every communication not just their actions.

I have to disagree with you, from what I have read so far, the Mobius admins did receive support from Frontier to get the issue resolved. Sour apples to get through occasionally, but these get reported to admins and dealt with swiftly.

For times when I want to have a peaceful night I use Mobius group, I can't say I have come across any PvP there yet.

 

[thorn-]

You are obviously not the problem. The way you do it is how I understand "...hunting players..." from the ad. Legitmate bounty hunting.

Thank you

But the same guy in the cutter, he´s got his 700000cr bounty from killing noobs. He must have killed a pretty many of them. What do you think, how is the proportion of PvP players playing your way to PvP players playing the "noob killer Cutter" way?

Consider this also: the reason he has accrued such a large bounty is because his victims did not log.

What's the average fine for murder, 8K or so? (I can't remember). But let's do some quick math using that figure: that's nearly 90 murders of people that didn't log before their deaths.

His ability to murder with absolutely NO consequences, ever, is only strengthened by Frontier's inactions on logging.

 

[Cosmos]

Did the fact that he responds on Reddit firsts not say something about this forum community and what the devs actually think of it? I don't blame them.

Its usually frowned upon on official gaming forums to claim to be using cheats and exploits and encourging others to follow suit.

 

[Sopel3pl]

Easy way to stop combat logging problem.
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/307369-Sugestion-Player-disconected

 

[ShadowWolf Kell]

Consider this also: the reason he has accrued such a large bounty is because his victims did not log.

More likely, he got it from killing NPCs, especially System Authority. Weren't there people exploiting that awhile back (and got banned for it?) by using it as a money making scheme.