An investigation into Frontier's actions on Combat Logging

[DefiledDragon]

Possibly...

Each Pilots Federation ship you illegally destroy incurs an ever increasing/ramping penalty/fine? After several, fines of hundreds of millions? A few more and an X billion fine? It might deter people... Especially when the increased NPC security attention they received in their instance takes them out, and they can't afford their rebuy


In short, if you're illegally destroying a Pilots Federation Member, it should "really hurt"! Especially if you keep doing it!

In Eve, each time you attack a non hostile ship, you take a hit to your security status. Once your security status gets below a certain level, you are designated as kill on sight for security forces in high security systems. It can get so bad that you literally can't go into secure space at all and even in low security systems where there aren't any "police" ships, the stations have guns and the gates have guns and they will open fire on you. It still doesn't stop people ganking other people. I really don't think there's anything you can do to prevent it completely, which is why I think so many will be disappointed with whatever system FD implement because I very much doubt it will be anywhere near as severe as the system in Eve Online.

 

[Steve O B Have]

You missed the don't ostracise the player base bit... Make it contextual.

 

[DefiledDragon]

I agree crime and punishment adjustments will only effect clean(ish) players. Griefing/ganking/cheating and exploiting are all underhand behaviors of a similar nature effectively if you do one of these things you probably do all of them. So any repercussions aren't going to matter as the majority of the proposed solutions involving fines or ship loss won't work as the targets are rolling in easily obtained exploit money and will simply laugh it off.

I used to gank people all the time in Eve, yet I've never cheated in any online game in my life and never would, nor would I yank my cable out even if I were about to lose my brand new Anaconda and didn't have the rebuy. Don't tar people who enjoy PvP with the same brush as a hacker/cheater/exploiter because the mentality couldn't be more different.

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Hacking?

If you combat log, to all intents and purposes your ship is invincible. If you were running actual invincibility hacks, wouldn't you consider it hacking? Because that's what you're doing if you combat log.

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Actually, there is another option. You could maybe consider games a bit less important and exercise some perspective, rather than considering wasting Frontier's time by having them investigate one individual out of the many in Open who failed to explode on the internet for you. You could even say that by choosing to engage a target in Open, you understand the fact that they might have a jittery internet connection and your fun might end at any given moment for reasons out of the control of both parties.

I'm sorry, Sole. The picture you're presenting - that you must not have your time wasted even by internet realities, that participants in the Open game must arrange and manage their circumstances to guarantee your personal enjoyment, and that non-compliance should be pursued and punished because it annoys you - is starting to sour your other arguments.

All they need to do is not cheat. Why is that so difficult for some of you to grasp? I can't believe how low this community actually is. It is, by far, the single worst gaming community I've ever come across. People here stand in defence of cheating. What the actual ?

 

[Stigbob]

I used to gank people all the time in Eve, yet I've never cheated in any online game in my life and never would, nor would I yank my cable out even if I were about to lose my brand new Anaconda and didn't have the rebuy. Don't tar people who enjoy PvP with the same brush as a hacker/cheater/exploiter because the mentality couldn't be more different.

Ganking has nothing at all to do with PVP, it's a straight up cheat IMO.

 

[Ozram]

Yep. Suicidewinders and Buddy Kills.

Indeed. That would be fixed if the player with the bounty on his/her head, had to pay the bounty regardless of ship destruction. No reason the two should be tied together.

 

[DefiledDragon]

What about the games reputation in the future?

Are you serious? If any of my mates ask me about Elite Dangerous or express any interest in buying it, guess what I'll tell them. Don't bother mate, it's full of cheaters and the developers are too scared/lazy/apathetic to do anything about it.

That's the reputation ED is currently gaining.

 

[DefiledDragon]

Ganking has nothing at all to do with PVP, it's a straight up cheat IMO.

When it comes to what is and isn't cheating, opinion doesn't count for jack. Combat logging is an effective invincibility hack and is against the ToS as defined by Frontier Developments. The only opinion that counts here is FD's and if they don't want ED to remain a hive of cheaters, they need to take some action.

 

[Ozram]

Are you serious? If any of my mate ask me about Elite Dangerous or express any interest in buying it, guess what I'll tell them. Don't bother mate, it's full of cheaters and the developers are too scared/lazy/apathetic to do anything about it.

That's the reputation ED is currently gaining.

No it isn't but keep spreading that if you like. Far more offputting are the gank squads that have no interest in the game as a whole, but rather what they can get away with to grief others. If we were talking about genuine gameplay, with in game reasons for the conflicts then it would be a different matter. We're not. We're dealing with a pack of griefers who like shooting fish in a barrel and are having a fit because there are people who won't put up with it.

 

[Steve O B Have]

Are you serious? If any of my mates ask me about Elite Dangerous or express any interest in buying it, guess what I'll tell them. Don't bother mate, it's full of cheaters and the developers are too scared/lazy/apathetic to do anything about it.

That's the reputation ED is currently gaining.

I heard they kill kittens and they're currently waging a war on Yorkshire puddings too!

 

[DefiledDragon]

No it isn't but keep spreading that if you like. Far more offputting are the gank squads that have no interest in the game as a whole, but rather what they can get away with to grief others. If we were talking about genuine gameplay, with in game reasons for the conflicts then it would be a different matter. We're not. We're dealing with a pack of griefers who like shooting fish in a barrel and are having a fit because there are people who won't put up with it.

No you're not, you're cheating because you want to play in Open but don't want to shoulder the responsibility of keeping yourself alive in the "cutthroat galaxy" that comes with selecting Open as your playground. It's pathetic and made even more so by certain peoples attempts to defend it.

 

[Gunnet]

I see SDC has finally realised that Frontier's statement wasn't a victory for them, but rather the standard brush off a business gives to unreasonable customers who try to get their way with smearing in the media. Their frustration is delicious.

Are you serious? If any of my mate ask me about Elite Dangerous or express any interest in buying it, guess what I'll tell them. Don't bother mate, it's full of cheaters and the developers are too scared/lazy/apathetic to do anything about it.

That's the reputation ED is currently gaining.

If your Eve buddies are basing their purchasing decision solely on whether they will be able to gank people rather than on any of Elite's actual features, we're better off without them. Thanks for keeping them away.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

All they need to do is not cheat. Why is that so difficult for some of you to grasp? I can't believe how low this community actually is. It is, by far, the single worst gaming community I've ever come across. People here stand in defence of cheating. What the actual ?

I think FD have to carry some of the can they made a game where a ship can be practically to all intents and purposes invincible against other ships and offer no protection what so ever to the "sheep" from the "wolves"

Also people have been exploiting the hell out of the game for the last 2 years, and be honest, many of them were PvPers like those from SDC using exploits to kill players. The worst have been closed, or reduced but the game still has a bagful of exploits many of which have guides on how to do them. The fact that FD have only out and out condemned one of them and only partially condemned others as well as totally swerving others still is another black mark.

Further more FD pitched a 4th game in a series which has always been pure PvE at a group who were largely PvE orientated and told us there would be different open modes with different rulesets where we could PwP and then only gave us one... and even in that open mode we got we were told naively that even then PvP would be rare and total 1 sided destruction handled in game such as to make unattractive with the most aggregeous matched together as well as block lists

What we actually got was a game where role of serial killer is the easiest most risk free role in the game totally unaffected by the instancing which affects other PvP roles

On top of that many expected an option of a totally single player game and that never came and few would have a problem with others exploiting a single player game

I do not condone exploits in a MP game, but combine the above issues and throw into the mix that it is. sDC members who seem to have done every underhand trick in the book to get their salt inc deception in private groups and you will get people showing zero sympathy and enjoying the shoe on the other foot

 

[Steve O B Have]

No it isn't but keep spreading that if you like. Far more offputting are the gank squads that have no interest in the game as a whole, but rather what they can get away with to grief others. If we were talking about genuine gameplay, with in game reasons for the conflicts then it would be a different matter. We're not. We're dealing with a pack of griefers who like shooting fish in a barrel and are having a fit because there are people who won't put up with it.

To be fair that is not a legit representation of the facts either - there is an issue with people too scared to lose their ship pulling the plug to avoid. That is an honest complaint but it is getting conflated with the PVP argument.

 

[DefiledDragon]

I see SDC has finally realised that Frontier's statement wasn't a victory for them, but rather the standard brush off a business gives to unreasonable customers who try to get their way with smearing in the media. Their frustration is delicious.



If your Eve buddies are basing their purchasing decision solely on whether they will be able to gank people rather than on any of Elite's actual features, we're better off without them. Thanks for keeping them away.

My pleasure, believe me. When I play on steam servers, there's a reason I check the "VAC Secured" option, it's the same reason I won't be investing any more time or money into ED and will discourage anybody else from wasting their precious time and money on it also.

This community is a disgrace to gaming.

 

[Asp Explorer]

No you're not, you're cheating because you want to play in Open but don't want to shoulder the responsibility of keeping yourself alive in the "cutthroat galaxy" that comes with selecting Open as your playground. It's pathetic and made even more so by certain peoples attempts to defend it.

Would you be happier if people put up paywalls?

"Noobs only $50 hour! Such tender! Much club! Great seal! Immersive wow!"

 

[Ozram]

No you're not, you're cheating because you want to play in Open but don't want to shoulder the responsibility of keeping yourself alive in the "cutthroat galaxy" that comes with selecting Open as your playground. It's pathetic and made even more so by certain peoples attempts to defend it.

Actually, I've never logged (solo or open) so keep that in mind. I'm not cheating, but frankly I may bring myself to that level if I feel it provides enough salt against griefers. I'm not talking about pvpers as a whole. I've been in plenty of pvp in this game and enjoy(ed it until engineers stuffed it all up and then some) it. Also, don't say things like "shoulder the responsibility" and other bravado. It's embarrassing. This is a game. open is awesome 99% of the time for many, many reasons. SDC and other ganking groups are not a part of that reason. Essentially, when someone logs on them, they are saying, "sorry mate, you don't know how to play with others and I won't play with you, but you won't push bully me out of the playground either".

 

[Steve O B Have]

My pleasure, believe me. When I play on steam servers, there's a reason I check the "VAC Secured" option, it's the same reason I won't be investing any more time or money into ED and will discourage anybody else from wasting their precious time and money on it also.

This community is a disgrace to gaming.

Well, some elements could be said to be a disgrace, I feel it's a bit unfair to call everyone here that. You can say the same about all gaming communities. I happen to know a large number of players in this game that are genuinely fantastic people and don't fall to baiting and making sweeping statements. So no, I think your statement about the community being a disgrace is untrue, uncharitable and likely born out of frustration.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

This community is a disgrace to gaming.

I could say the same about certain player groups in the game.... ps i do not exploit in ED

 

[Ozram]

To be fair that is not a legit representation of the facts either - there is an issue with people too scared to lose their ship pulling the plug to avoid. That is an honest complaint but it is getting conflated with the PVP argument.

That's fair enough. It's not the aspect that I've been addressing on account of the clear self interest from the OP. They aren't talking about logging as a broken rule. They could give a damn about that. They are talking about having their ganking frustrated by those who won't play along.

 

[Sole Hunter]

That was exactly what we were thinking when we flipped Wolfberg (SDC's home system) and drove them right out of the BGS with their tail between their legs. All within the rules no exploiting or cheating required.

We do not play the BGS nor have any interest in powerplay or wolfberg. A now, disgruntled ex-member of SDC originally asked frontier to put SDC in the game as a faction without our knowledge. The same reason we do not have a website nor publicly do recruitment, we have no interest in such thing's.

Our home are the CG's and where ever PVP take place.