Modes An old gripe, revisited... [apologies]

OP - if you want a mode where the BGS can't be affected by people in another mode, campaign for FD to provide a completely separate Open server for those who want it. That way it doesn't involve removing anything from anyone and everyone who is happy with the BGS/Powerplay/CGs working across all modes and platforms don't have to lose anything.

Those who want an Open only experience can also get what they want as well.... and there are dozens of them! Dozens!
 
It's fine as it is imo. Those who want to play solo can do, while still feeling invested in the BGS if they are bothered, those who play in open and 'play' the BGS as their main focus just don't have the level of control they would like. It's an imperfect world.
if one plays in solo.... so be it, but why are solo players allowed to impact Player Factions? seriously, just allow PFs to be influenced in ""OPEN"
 
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I'm not native English speaker (probably neither Cmdr Esteban).
This is a bit hard to understand for me too! :p
To me it sounds you're asking why BGS can be affected only in OPEN.

If I understood correctly your question is not correct because this is not true. BGS can be affected in all modes: SOLO, OPEN and PRIVATE GROUP.

The 2018 biggest discussion about BGS was to make it OPEN only, but this proposal never passed

once again... "but"
 
Possibly it's because it's the way it was sold to us in the beginning and changing it could be considered a breach of contract.

not really... our contract is not what you think it is. we don't own the game... we don't even own a license... we LEASE a license
 
You can actively oppose their actions though. Using the same methods they are applying to generate that influence.
Perhaps you instead are referring to an option to attack those doing the other things?
However there is a fallacy in play here. First you have no idea if any particular commander is opposing you or not so blowing them up can hurt as much as help your faction.
Exploding clean ships (weather working for you or against you) actually harms your faction.
Many of the players in the system are not knowingly working for or against any faction, they are just playing the game.
For every opposing player you stop there are others who slip through and they may actually be more detrimental to your faction than the one you did stop.
And lets not forget instancing, time zones, geographical regions and platforms that put the kibosh on the whole thing.
The way it stands everyone gets to have an effect on the game which was the intention of the developers from the start.
u know we cant pledge our ships to factions... right? we can be in a squadron, that is pledged to a faction, but our ships don't affect said faction
 
because apparently unlike you FDev wants everyone in the game to have an influence in the game, plus that is how it was advertised. Why do people like you think the mode YOU play in should be special and be the only mode that affects anything?

little thing called, sim...
 
https://www.elitedangerous.com/features/trade/

"The trading rules are simple and universal: buy goods cheaply where they are most common and sell them where prices are high. Supply and demand drives prices, and every trade you make affects the markets for every player on every platform."

https://www.elitedangerous.com/features/explore/

"Explorers may work alone or in teams, planning expeditions into unknown space. By visiting star systems and collecting data commanders are gradually mapping our galaxy, and the first commander to discover a new system will have their name forever marked in the history books."

https://www.elitedangerous.com/features/fight/

"If you choose to fly in Open Play you’ll encounter other commanders in a galaxy where friendly fire is always on."


It is spelled out plainly in Trade and Exploration and the only "mention" of Open in combat is that you can PVP... not that you can control everything...


Advertisement... read it and study it before buying a game. Would save you the grief.

a good argument... if you only define PVP as Ship v Ship...
 
if one plays in solo.... so be it, but why are solo players allowed to impact Player Factions? seriously, just allow PFs to be influenced in ""OPEN"

The issues of instancing and multi-platform play mean that it's really moot which mode you are in.

In a best case scenario, even if actions were limited to Open only, the resources needed to "stop" players affecting the BGS for your particular faction would be better spent just doing actions to promote your faction as it is a far more effiecient way to increase influence.

Further - why does it matter to you?

(finally, forming a question in an indirect form can be ambiguous)
 
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As was conceptualized from before release of this game. They intended every mode to have an effect on the BGS.

The only ones "sore" about it are those who didn't properly research it before they bought the game. They simply thought they'd be able to "blockade" everything through Elite 2.0 rather than realize the game was always intended to be a hybrid.

inaccurate statement... calls for an overgeneralization and exaggerated player grouping (labeling)
 
OP - if you want a mode where the BGS can't be affected by people in another mode, campaign for FD to provide a completely separate Open server for those who want it. That way it doesn't involve removing anything from anyone and everyone who is happy with the BGS/Powerplay/CGs working across all modes and platforms don't have to lose anything.

Those who want an Open only experience can also get what they want as well.... and there are dozens of them! Dozens!

name is already on the petition
 
My mistake. I took the question "Why is it still possible to affect BGS in anything BUT OPEN?" to mean "any mode except open" or "any mode other than open" - that is, only in solo or PG.

Edit: @SenseiMatty - I am a native English speaker, but to be honest the OP's question could have been phrased better. Cheers.

doh, and i thought that was deliberate and brilliant troll pwnage ...
myth busted!!
 
You do realize that there is actually no such thing as PLAYER FACTIONS right? Yes we can name a faction... but there is no ownership. It is a fully NPC faction just like every other faction in the game and influenced just as every other NPC faction by the BGS and what was done in Solo, PG's, or Open.

Open is just ONE mode of the game not "The" mode of the game. And my previous points still stand concerning the game and in your view PVP.
 
I think FDEV allowed BGS to be affected by all modes and platforms because they did not want to exclude anyone from helping his\her favorite faction or personal pet project.
FDEV had never expressed (at least to my knowledge) that BGS would be a PVP activity. Not that it could not, and yes I believe it could be a great way for organic PvP to happen. I think FDEVS intent was to allow everyone to join in and to give CMDRS who don't like to or can't play in open or they only want to play only with friends and not strangers to still have the ability to run and have a player faction or invest time and effort into their faction of choice. Yes this lends to having some BGS situations that are unwinnable because they are hiding in SOLO or PG. Will making BGS Open only be a good thing? No Idea. Due to the sheer vastness of our play space and the fickle nature of instancing its still very likely you will miss the Target CMDR or CMDRS for your BGS activity's in a OPEN only BGS system.

I am all for BGS being in open so you can have more ORGANIC PvP.

Deep down I think the real reason is probably how BGS is handled on the severs and it might not be possible or at least not require a large rewrite that could introduce more issues to make the BGS open only. Normally when people don't comment on peoples complaints its most likely something they can't or won't change. Elite is a complicated beast as anyone who has gone trough at least one UPDATE knows it breaks easy and fixes slowly. I don't know how BGS is handled to be honest but It could be like how stars are handled (with mass btw) causing them to not be able to add more known hyper giants..

To be honest here I really don't think its some nebulas reason why FDEV "WON'T" do it its more likely that they "CAN'T" due to some technical issue or the possibility of breaking it and having to sink tons of hrs (and money) into fixing it when its cheaper to just let it continue like it is.
 
if one plays in solo.... so be it, but why are solo players allowed to impact Player Factions? seriously, just allow PFs to be influenced in ""OPEN"

There is no such thing as "Player Factions." All factions in the game, regardless of whether they were named by the Stellar Forge or by a group of players, are NPC factions. They are owned by NPCs. They are controlled by NPCs. NPCs make all the decisions. They are their own entities, completely independent of players. They can even decide who their allies are, without consulting another player at all.

Players can choose to align themselves with any faction in the game, regardless of whether that faction was named by the Stellar Forge or a group of players. No player has exclusive access to a faction, regardless of whether they named it or not. The actions of players can affect any faction that interact with, regardless of mode or platform, by design. This is because the actual purpose of the BGS is to ensure that the background setting of this game isn't static, but dynamic, not to serve as a proxy for territorial warfare.

Here's some fun facts about factions, both Stellar Forge named and not:
  • There are 76,624 minor factions, of which only 1743 (2%) are player-named.
  • Of those player-named factions, 813 (47%) don't even control a single system. Given how easy it is for a single BGS player to ensure the faction they support is control of the system if they're unopposed, these player-named factions are clearly either abandoned or, much more likely IMO, they were named by groups who have zero interest in manipulating the BGS, for any reason.
  • Only 518 player-named factions (30%) control more than one star system. Again, given controlling factions tend to stay in control unless deliberately acted against, thanks to sheer inertia, this is more evidence that a significant majority of player-named factions aren't even being deliberately supported by players.
  • One of the top ten larger factions is a Stellar-Forge named faction... and IMO three of those player-named factions follow the Stellar-Forge naming convections, so I'd never know they weren't player-named. This isn't surprising, given that at least one faction I'm familiar with (Crimson State Group) that is reported as "player-named" on the EDDB was actually Stellar-Forge named, and the player group that supported it petitioned Frontier to change some of its details in support of the narrative they'd successfully managed to create via the BGS.
  • This proportion grows from 10% for the top ten, to 12% for the top 50, to 14% for the top 100, 17% of top 150, 22% of top 200, 26% of the top 300.
  • For a better comparison: 10% for factions #1-10; 13% of factions #11-50; 16% of factions #51-100; 24% of factions #51-150; 34% of factions #151-200; 35% of factions #201-300; 50% of factions #301-400; and 75% of factions #401-500
  • This isn't surprising, because there are a total of 2387 "interstellar empires" (a faction controlling more than one system) in the game currently.

It is ludicrous to suggest that because a small minority of players are using the BGS as a proxy for a territorial control game, Frontier should gut the actual purpose of the BGS. Over 99% of factions in the game are not player-named factions which are being actively supported by players, and every single one of them needs to change over time. BGS "warfare" is not the purpose of the BGS. It is emergent gameplay, and emergent gameplay does not obviate the actual purpose of a game mechanism.

The most amusing thing about this IMO is that the changes you, and players like you, are continuously requesting is to make it easier to use a defensive BGS strategy that will inevitably backfire on you, especially if an attacking group is, in any way, competent at BGS manipulation.

You're essentially saying, "Hi! Frontier? I don't have a clue about the BGS, but I really like PvP. A group of players are attacking a faction I support. Please make it easier for them to do so, while simultaneously making it easier for me to shoot myself in the foot repeatedly. Thank you for your consideration."
 
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Affecting a faction from Solo or Group is fine with me.

Consider a competitive exam like you'd find in a job interview. You can improve your chances by revising hard before the test even though you're studying in Solo. Yes, you're affecting other candidates, but they can affect you back by studying harder or by having more talent.

Frontier have taken this real-world situation and coded it into the game. It's one of many reasons why Elite: Dangerous appealed. I appreciate it won't appeal to everyone, but no single game will satisfy everyone.

Cheers, Phos.
 
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