Honestly laying it all out like this, makes it seem like Frontier had some sort of internal clock we aren’t privy to.
Analyzing required animals by Taxonomical group
That clock might need some synchronization. I spent 5 years spamming mandrills and ibexes all over my zoos and now we get a gazillion monkeys and goats in a year.
Edit: I didn't even get to properly use the markhor yet.
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We absolutely need an Asian antelope, which I imagine will be satisfied at least once if not twice over with this pack. Blackbuck and nilgai are still both individually essential in my eyes, even if functionally they do overlap a bit. The only caprine I'd still stick my neck out for is the aoudad, even if the bighorn sheep stole a bit of its desert caprine niche.
This steady flow of monkeys is phenomenal, but we were still so far behind the curve that we've got a ways to go still. I said as much in the DLC thread earlier, but I still need at minimum 5 more monkeys before I'd consider us good: a tamarin or marmoset, a spider monkey or howler, a squirrel monkey (functionally redundant with the capuchin, but way too common and iconic to overlook), a guenon, and a colobus.
I think mustelids are probably good now. I'm a huge fan of small mammals so I'd welcome basically any further additions, especially new world ones (personal order of priorities: North American river otter, tayra, sea otter, a marten species, black-footed ferret, American badger) but I think the honey badger was the last truly notable omission from an unbiased standpoint... though I also think a case could maybe be made for a temperate/cold otter.
Elephants were already at capacity on day 1. A hyrax is still more than welcome.
This steady flow of monkeys is phenomenal, but we were still so far behind the curve that we've got a ways to go still. I said as much in the DLC thread earlier, but I still need at minimum 5 more monkeys before I'd consider us good: a tamarin or marmoset, a spider monkey or howler, a squirrel monkey (functionally redundant with the capuchin, but way too common and iconic to overlook), a guenon, and a colobus.
I think mustelids are probably good now. I'm a huge fan of small mammals so I'd welcome basically any further additions, especially new world ones (personal order of priorities: North American river otter, tayra, sea otter, a marten species, black-footed ferret, American badger) but I think the honey badger was the last truly notable omission from an unbiased standpoint... though I also think a case could maybe be made for a temperate/cold otter.
Elephants were already at capacity on day 1. A hyrax is still more than welcome.
We have the Saiga, but yeah we need something more common.
For such an antelope-rich continent, it's shocking how we only have 4 for Asia. So many viable options still exist like blackbucks, nilgais, gaur, and serows
Fair point, the saiga might be the single most forgettable species for me in the game so I'm not surprised I wasn't considering it. Sounds like we need both the blackbuck and the nilgai to make up for its negative presence, then!
Antelopes are a paraphyletic group. Bison, cattle, caprines are usually not included.
I don't think antelope have to be paraphyletic. Even "conventional" antelope vary massively from giant elands to Kirk's dik-diks. Are bovines and caprines really too different to be included?
With the new DLC i'm happy that the Honey Badger is coming (and I'm eagerly awaiting the announcement in 2 weeks). However, each time my list is completed
Carnivores
Carnivores
- Canids: Tanooki
- Bears: American Black Bear (just to complete the family)
- Musteloids: Sea Otter, North American River Otter, Kinkajou
- Pinnipeds: Walrus
- Felids (Small Cats): Serval, Bobcat, Fishing Cat
- Bovines: Yak
- Camelids: Guanaco
- Antelopes: Blackbuck, Greater Kudu, Impala
- Caprines: Muskox, Mountain Goat, Japanese Serow
- Deers: Elk, White-Tailed Deer, Sika Deer, Axis Deer
- Lemurs: Aye-Aye
- New World Monkeys: Night Monkey
- Old World Monkeys: Gelada, Golden Snub-Nosed Monkey, Mantled Guereza
- Penguins: Gentoo Penguin, Chinstrap Penguin, Emperor Penguin
- Crocodiles: Nile Crocodile
- Snakes: King Cobra, Green Anaconda (I see them as possible Habitat Animals)
I guess antelope means any bovid that doesn't have an obvious domestic counterpart? Just an hypothesis, but:
- Caprines = sheep and other goats
- Bovines = domestic cattle (+ buffalos and so on)
- Rest of bovids = wild antelopes
That's how the word is conventionally used, correct. My argument is that such paraphyly is unnecessary as bovines and caprines aren't really that different compared to the "conventional" spectrum of antelope
Is it not simple enough to just call them "bovids" since you're encompassing the whole family? I do completely get the whole thing about antelope being nebulously defined with the existence of nilgai and saiga shooting to muddle the category, but bovid is also just... easier to both say and type and conveys the exact same thing.
Either way we need way more Asian bovids, and just Asian ungulates in general this is kinda abysmal when they're some of my favourites.
Non-whale ungulates by clade with the biggest taxon holes bolded.
- Odd-Toed Ungulates:
- Tapirs: complete enough for me
- Present: Malayan, Baird's
- Still Missing: Lowland, Mountain
- Thoughts: One for South America and one for Asia was the important goal for me. I might pay a dollar or install a mod to get the other two, but I wouldn't want them to take a DLC slot.
- Rhinos: complete enough for me
- Present: White, Black, Indian
- Still Missing: Javan, Sumatran
- Thoughts: The white and Indian were the important ones for me, and they add one for each continent. I might pay a dollar or install a mod to get the other two, but I wouldn't want them to take a DLC slot.
- Hippos: complete
- Equids: mostly complete
- Present: Plain's Zebra, African Wild Ass, Przewalski's Horse
- Missing: Domestic Horse/Pony, Asiatic Wild Ass
- Thoughts: I wouldn't mind seeing Clydesdales and/or a pony in a DLC slot, but it's not a priority for me. I could somewhat picture getting an onager.
- Tapirs: complete enough for me
- Even-toed Ungulates:
- Suina: complete enough for me
- Peccaries:
- Present: Collared Peccary
- Still Missing: Chacoan, White-Lipped
- Thoughts: Few wanted more than one peccary, and they added the popular one. We don't need more.
- Pigs:
- Present: Red River Hog, Warthog, Wild Boar, Babirusa, Domestic Pig
- Possible Options: Visayan Warty Pig, Pot-Bellied Pig, Kunekune, Bearded Pig, Pygmy Hog
- Thoughts: The warthog and red river hog are the main zoo-relevant species, and they give the Afrotropical realm 2 good ones. The wild boar covers the Palearctic and provides a cold-weather pig. The babirusa was easily the most popular Indomalayan pig. While we didn't get the pot-bellied pig or kunekune most were hoping for, I think one domestic pig is enough for most people. There are plenty of options for pigs overall, and the other options would barely add anything to the game.
- Peccaries:
- Camels: complete at species level
- Present: Dromedary, Bactrian, Llama, Alpaca
- Thoughts: They are complete at the species level. I don't really care about the wild ones at this point.
- Giraffes & Relatives: Depending on your source, they are complete at the species level. I would kind of like a Masai or Northern giraffe, but it is far from essential.
- Musk Deer: Not bad, but I'd prefer a muntjac
- Chevrotains: Super cool but unlikely
- Cervids (deer): Definitely has a few open niches, especially muntjacs, New world deer, PD Deer, and at least one South or SE deer species.
- Old World Deer: Only needs a muntjac, but there are other decent options
- Muntjacs/Tufted Deer: I've seen muntjacs in several zoos, and we have nothing like that right now. A small, tropical, Asian-endemic, or fanged deer would be new to the roster, and these guys bring all four traits.
- 'True' Deer:
- Present: Red Deer, Fallow Deer
- Missing: Pere David's Deer, Wapiti, Sika Deer, Sambar Deer, Hog Deer, Axis Deer, Barasingha
- Thoughts: The PD deer is pretty unique, and the axis/hog/barasingha and sambar deer clades don't have representation. I don't personally care too much about getting any of the three, but I guess one of each would be a tiny bit useful to 'complete' deer. Wapiti aren't very unique taxonomically, but they are important to many NA players, popular, and somewhat unique size-wise. Sika deer would give Japan an ungulate, but the serow might be better for that.
- New World Deer: We only have oddballs right now that also live in Eurasia. There is no typical New World deer in the game, yet.
- Moose: complete
- Roe/Water Deer: I'm not super interested in these, but they aren't completely redundant and useless.
- Reindeer: complete
- White-Tailed/Mule/Red Brocket Deer: The white tailed deer is pretty iconic, has a huge range, and would be somewhat useful. North America doesn't have a 'normal' deer yet, and this one looks different from anything we have in the game right now.
- Taruca/Pampas/Marsh/Grey Brocket Deer: Something from here would be good to cover deer taxons well. The marsh deer seems like the coolest.
- Pudu: somewhat interesting, but less useful than a muntjac
- Old World Deer: Only needs a muntjac, but there are other decent options
- Bovini (cows): Complete enough but still has some ok options
- Present: American Bison, Wisent, Wild Water Buffalo, African Buffalo, Highland Cattle
- Options: Gaur, Anoa, Banteng, Yak, Watusi Cattle, Saola, Forest Buffalo?
- Thoughts: Saolas are the most distinct if they are still extant. Yaks and gaurs are probably up next as distinct entries, but they're probably more important for cultural reasons than fleshing out taxa. Anoas are liked for their small size, and forest buffalos are liked for their coat.
- Caprids: (goats and sheep) Missing muskox and maybe chiru and aoudad. There are other options that are ok.
- Capra ('true' goats)/Bharal/Tahr/Aoudad:
- Present: Domestic Goat, Alpine Ibex, Markhor
- Reasonable Options: Nubian Ibex, Tahr, Bharal, Aoudad
- Thoughts: Aoudad are common in zoos and fairly popular. I'm otherwise completely fine with this branch the way it is, but a Nubian ibex might be nice to go with the baboons. Tahr are pretty cool.
- Takin/Mountain Goat/Chamois:
- Present: Takin
- Still Missing: Mountain Goat, Chamois
- Thoughts: Both options are visually distinct and have a bit of a following in the community. They wouldn't be awful.
- Ovis:
- Present: Dall Sheep, Bighorn Sheep, Domestic Sheep
- Thoughts: I don't think many people care about the Armenian mouflon, Argali, or snow sheep. The European mouflon is now believed to be feral sheep.
- Muskox/Serow/Goral:
- Still Missing: Muskox, Serow
- Thoughts: The Muskox is the big one. Serow are the national mammal of Japan and would be an ok addition.
- Tibetan Antelope (Chiru): It's a cool oddball that I wouldn't hate, but they have no captive presence.
- Capra ('true' goats)/Bharal/Tahr/Aoudad:
- Other Bovids (antelope): Mostly missing 2 Asian species, but there are still some good, visually distinct options.
- Nilgai/Four-horned antelope: Nilgai would be super distinct and cool. The other antelope is somewhat interesting, too.
- Kudu/elands/bushbuck/nyala/bongo/sitatunga:
- Present: Bongo, Nyala
- Missing and Likely: Eland, Greater kudu
- Thoughts: Any eland is more important taxon-wise than the others. The kudu is my favorite antelope ever. Both are popular and worth including. Bushbucks look kind of cool, but they aren't high-priority for me.
- Impala: This animal is pretty unique.
- Nesotraginae: Really not interesting or unique visually
- Duikers & Klipsringer:
- Thoughts: Most are reddish brown or black. Jentik's and Zebra duikers are a little flashier. One or two might be ok, but I don't care about them too much. If we get one, I hope we get a pretty one.
- Antilopinae:
- Present: Thomson's Gazelle, Saiga, Springbok, Dama Gazelle
- Missing: Blackbuck, Gerenuk
- Thoughts: Aside from the two missing ones, everything looks very similar to those two or stuff we already have. A gazelle with Asian biome tags and interspecies enrichment might not be totally useless, but I don't think very many would be excited about it.
- Reduncinae (Kob/Reedbuck/Grey Rhebok):
- Present: Nile Lechwe
- Somewhat popular and missing: Waterbuck
- Thoughts: I like waterbucks. They look different even though they are in the same genus as Lechwes. The other unique missing thing looks like an impala.
- Alcelaphinae:
- Present: Blue Wildebeest, Black Wildebeest
- Missing: Topi/Tsessebe, Hirrola, Bontebok
- Thoughts: The absent ones are kind of unique, and one might be an ok addition. I like the red ones.
- Hippotraginae:
- Present: Gemsbok, Addax, Sable Antelope,
- Missing: Arabian Oryx?
- Thoughts: The Arabian oryx, beisa oryx, and roan antelope would complete this whole clade. The Arabian oryx looks different and would be nice for Middle East rep, but I don't view it as a strong priority taxon-wise
- Suina: complete enough for me
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To me that feels like reserving "cats" solely for the felinae subfamily and insisting to use "felids" for the whole family. People call panthers "cats" all the time. Why is that different from saying cattle and sheep are antelope?
Because the English language is annoying like that sometimes, people will be confused.
I think I might be like, the only person who would absolutely kill for tufted deer specifically. Them and a muntjac. I dunno, I kinda view it in a "siamang and another gibbon" sorta situation, but with fanged deer ig?
I have to agree, mustelids are in a pretty good spot right now, though I'd still welcome the Sea Otter. And I've said this before, but we really don't need or want another elephant, a third species simply wouldn't have anything unique to offer. A hyrax species would be great though.
I'm going to use the hype that would come to the forums in the coming day to get a grasp on a group we avoided when creating this post - Flying Birds.
In the next few weeks, I will start discussions about the bird orders and groups we avoided for PZ1, as recent developments for JWE3 aviary features and heightened discussion about Planet Zoo 2, makes this discussion relevant again.
So let's start: Birds discussion #1 - groups to discuss:
In each discussion I will put the focus on one big groups and some smaller niche groups or individual species. Results will be aggregated in the main post.
In the next few weeks, I will start discussions about the bird orders and groups we avoided for PZ1, as recent developments for JWE3 aviary features and heightened discussion about Planet Zoo 2, makes this discussion relevant again.
So let's start: Birds discussion #1 - groups to discuss:
- Parrots
- Hornbills and hoopoes
- Nightbirds (hummingbirds, nightjars, potoo, frogmouths, oil birds and relatives)
- Hoatzin
In each discussion I will put the focus on one big groups and some smaller niche groups or individual species. Results will be aggregated in the main post.
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Wait, FLYING BIRDS WHAT HAVE I MISSED
*Editing: nothing, I've missed nothing. Apologies I am sleep deprived
*Editing: nothing, I've missed nothing. Apologies I am sleep deprived
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