Another disappointment

[Rat Catcher]

Estimated Time of Arrival?

Edit to Add?

Otherwise: 5 minutes after I should...

 

[Rory12]

VR is a bit like fusion energy--it's always the future and always only a few years away from mass adoption

I don't know what you're talking about.

I've been playing exclusively in VR for about 5 years now. The new Quest 3 is easier to use than a monitor. Just turn it on and fly.

I doubt ED will be able to attract many new casual players. But ED can attract a lot of VR owners. I think VR improvements should be in every patch.

 

[Rat Catcher]

I doubt ED will be able to attract many new casual players.

Just like DCS?

But ED can attract a lot of VR owners.

Can, but hasn't...


ED has existed for almost 10 years with a VR implementation (and the Odyssey expansion since launch - and at launch it was so poorly optimised that even top-end PCs would find VR 'challenging' (ask me how I know)) - So any VR fanatic is very likely to already have met ED in the last 10 years...

The new Quest 3 is easier to use than a monitor.

Not quite... I have one also, and to play something like DCS or ED it would need a PC to play on... So generally more faffing around than just switching on a monitor (or having it turn on when the PC is switched on)

 

[Helmut Grokenberger]

I don't know what you're talking about.

I've been playing exclusively in VR for about 5 years now. The new Quest 3 is easier to use than a monitor. Just turn it on and fly.

I doubt ED will be able to attract many new casual players. But ED can attract a lot of VR owners. I think VR improvements should be in every patch.

It's understandable that, as an enthusiast, you think VR is the bomb. Truth is, the majority of gamers still doesn't care. It's been promised for years now, with each new headset generation that was released, that this time VR would go through the roof. But it didn't.

ED might be able to attract a large(ish) percentage of VR players... but those numbers are still insignificant. If you look at the Steam hardware survey (last one I found on the interwebs was January 2024) and also believe them, only 2.24 percent of Steam users own a VR headset. Even if you argue that, as a prime example of excellent VR flight sim, the percentage of VR users amongst ED players will be much higher, you don't have to look too long to find posts on this very forum where VR players state that, sometimes, they can't be bothered and prefer to play on the flat screen.

Overall, VR just isn't important in the grand scheme at this point in time. Ask yourself why there were no VR games you could call triple A in the recent years apart from Alyx and maybe Lone Echo 1&2. Answer: Because, looking at the big picture, gamers don't really care about VR (yet) apart from a small niché, and the market is small.

And yes, I do own a VR headset, I know what I am talking about. I play ED exclusively in VR, and I love it, and I would not want to play it on a screen. But it's also pretty much the only game I play in VR (I'd estimate 95% of my VR usage is ED). VR is hardly a replacement for my screens, and I just don't want to play every game in VR. Or god forbid, do my "productivity work" in VR (as Apple suggest with their this-is-not-a-VR-headset). I liked Alyx in VR enough to play it three times. I enjoyed Fallout 4 VR - for about 15 minutes, and then returned to the screen. I enjoy the occasional casual sports game in VR, or getting my ass moving a bit with Synth Riders. But I wouldn't want to play Cyberpunk or RDR2 or... whatever in VR even if VR mods for it exist. I don't, because it's completely different gameplay. VR isn't going to take over any time soon, and the market acts accordingly.

 

[Dragsham]

Even if they added 20 new ships, made all planets landable, had ELWs full of lush forests and animals, implemented base building, implemented full ship interiors, implemented quests with storylines... the same people will still complain how it's "too little too late" and how the game is dead.

This is just inaccurate.
If they added this little lot I'd be chuffed!
But l can only speak for myself.
The game isn't dead
Star citizen isn't either.
Their just different.
Thankfully.

 

[Dragsham]

It's understandable that, as an enthusiast, you think VR is the bomb. Truth is, the majority of gamers still doesn't care. It's been promised for years now, with each new headset generation that was released, that this time VR would go through the roof. But it didn't.

ED might be able to attract a large(ish) percentage of VR players... but those numbers are still insignificant. If you look at the Steam hardware survey (last one I found on the interwebs was January 2024) and also believe them, only 2.24 percent of Steam users own a VR headset. Even if you argue that, as a prime example of excellent VR flight sim, the percentage of VR users amongst ED players will be much higher, you don't have to look too long to find posts on this very forum where VR players state that, sometimes, they can't be bothered and prefer to play on the flat screen.

Overall, VR just isn't important in the grand scheme at this point in time. Ask yourself why there were no VR games you could call triple A in the recent years apart from Alyx and maybe Lone Echo 1&2. Answer: Because, looking at the big picture, gamers don't really care about VR (yet) apart from a small niché, and the market is small.

And yes, I do own a VR headset, I know what I am talking about. I play ED exclusively in VR, and I love it, and I would not want to play it on a screen. But it's also pretty much the only game I play in VR (I'd estimate 95% of my VR usage is ED). VR is hardly a replacement for my screens, and I just don't want to play every game in VR. Or god forbid, do my "productivity work" in VR (as Apple suggest with their this-is-not-a-VR-headset). I liked Alyx in VR enough to play it three times. I enjoyed Fallout 4 VR - for about 15 minutes, and then returned to the screen. I enjoy the occasional casual sports game in VR, or getting my ass moving a bit with Synth Riders. But I wouldn't want to play Cyberpunk or RDR2 or... whatever in VR even if VR mods for it exists. I don't, because it's completely different gameplay. VR isn't going to take over any time soon, and the market acts accordingly.

This is depressingly correct hehe

 

[DjVortex]

I don't know what you're talking about.

I've been playing exclusively in VR for about 5 years now. The new Quest 3 is easier to use than a monitor. Just turn it on and fly.

I doubt ED will be able to attract many new casual players. But ED can attract a lot of VR owners. I think VR improvements should be in every patch.

I get the impression that he was referring to VR in general, not VR in ED in particular.

When Oculus first announced their Oculus Rift headset and the first prototypes became available, there was a huge amount of hype around it. Many were saying that it would completely revolutionize gaming and make regular old-fashioned 2D displays obsolete and a thing of the past, and how most games will most probably move to VR, even exclusively so. Heck, even older games without VR support would be better using VR goggles. After all, haven't you ever fantasized about playing a game in a cinema theater on a gigantic screen and full surround sound? Well, with VR that becomes possible! Yeehaw! People who presented their doubts and criticism were widely mocked and laughed at, considered old relics who just can't understand the absolute wonder that's VR.

Of course that never happened. VR experienced an extremely slow adoption rate, and the quality of most VR games, especially during the first 5-or-so years, was absolutely abysmal (heck, even most PlayStation 1 games looked better and were more fun to play). Sales numbers for both the headsets and VR games were abysmal for many, many years. Almost no new triple-A game had any VR support at all, not even planned. Many that had announced VR support eventually just dropped it and released without any. And almost nobody used a VR headset for anything other than play the few VR games that were available. No "woohoo, I'm playing this older game in a huge cinema screen!" (mainly because of the inconvenience of using the VR headset and, especially, the abysmally low resolutions.)

Now, 12 years later, the situation is significantly better (both in terms of headset and game quality). However, the predicted complete revolution in gaming never happened. VR still remains a vastly less adopted alternative form of gameplay, nowhere near mainstream, and in no way, shape or form replacing or surpassing your normal gameplay from a flat 2D screen (with the possible exception of a handful of individual games).

(In fact, the history of VR, especially in terms of hype, closely resembles that of the Kinect. That, too, was envisioned to "completely revolutionize gaming" and make existing controllers obsolete (Microsoft's own words). That, of course, never happened. Although I suppose VR fared a bit better in that it still exists, unlike the Kinect.)

 

[Arioch]

At the moment only Meta comes close and you have sell your soul surrender all your personal data to Zuckerberg (ie create a Facebook account) to use it. At least when I did research about how to use the Quest without FB account, the resounding answer was "Can't"--maybe it has changed recently, but I lost interest.

Although this will probably make no difference for you, the FB requirement for Quest headsets was dropped 23 Aug 2022

The personal information required for a Meta account is on par with Steam, Frontier, Epic, et al.

 

[Dragsham]

I get the impression that he was referring to VR in general, not VR in ED in particular.

When Oculus first announced their Oculus Rift headset and the first prototypes became available, there was a huge amount of hype around it. Many were saying that it would completely revolutionize gaming and make regular old-fashioned 2D displays obsolete and a thing of the past, and how most games will most probably move to VR, even exclusively so. Heck, even older games without VR support would be better using VR goggles. After all, haven't you ever fantasized about playing a game in a cinema theater on a gigantic screen and full surround sound? Well, with VR that becomes possible! Yeehaw! People who presented their doubts and criticism were widely mocked and laughed at, considered old relics who just can't understand the absolute wonder that's VR.

Of course that never happened. VR experienced an extremely slow adoption rate, and the quality of most VR games, especially during the first 5-or-so years, was absolutely abysmal (heck, even most PlayStation 1 games looked better and were more fun to play). Sales numbers for both the headsets and VR games were abysmal for many, many years. Almost no new triple-A game had any VR support at all, not even planned. Many that had announced VR support eventually just dropped it and released without any. And almost nobody used a VR headset for anything other than play the few VR games that were available. No "woohoo, I'm playing this older game in a huge cinema screen!" (mainly because of the inconvenience of using the VR headset and, especially, the abysmally low resolutions.)

Now, 12 years later, the situation is significantly better (both in terms of headset and game quality). However, the predicted complete revolution in gaming never happened. VR still remains a vastly less adopted alternative form of gameplay, nowhere near mainstream, and in no way, shape or form replacing or surpassing your normal gameplay from a flat 2D screen (with the possible exception of a handful of individual games).

(In fact, the history of VR, especially in terms of hype, closely resembles that of the Kinect. That, too, was envisioned to "completely revolutionize gaming" and make existing controllers obsolete (Microsoft's own words). That, of course, never happened. Although I suppose VR fared a bit better in that it still exists, unlike the Kinect.)

True.
But this does not apply to ED VR.
Elite is much better in VR than pancake.
Apart from on foot of course.
Somehow elite just got it right.
Granted its not optimised. You need a monster rig n headset to take advantage of it.
Elite is unique in this regard.
As for the rest, don't care.!
OK perhaps if SC worked in VR it'd be better too. Bugs aside, scam aside.

 

[Helmut Grokenberger]

I get the impression that he was referring to VR in general, not VR in ED in particular.

When Oculus first announced their Oculus Rift headset and the first prototypes became available, there was a huge amount of hype around it. Many were saying that it would completely revolutionize gaming and make regular old-fashioned 2D displays obsolete and a thing of the past, and how most games will most probably move to VR, even exclusively so. Heck, even older games without VR support would be better using VR goggles. After all, haven't you ever fantasized about playing a game in a cinema theater on a gigantic screen and full surround sound? Well, with VR that becomes possible! Yeehaw! People who presented their doubts and criticism were widely mocked and laughed at, considered old relics who just can't understand the absolute wonder that's VR.

Of course that never happened. VR experienced an extremely slow adoption rate, and the quality of most VR games, especially during the first 5-or-so years, was absolutely abysmal (heck, even most PlayStation 1 games looked better and were more fun to play). Sales numbers for both the headsets and VR games were abysmal for many, many years. Almost no new triple-A game had any VR support at all, not even planned. Many that had announced VR support eventually just dropped it and released without any. And almost nobody used a VR headset for anything other than play the few VR games that were available. No "woohoo, I'm playing this older game in a huge cinema screen!" (mainly because of the inconvenience of using the VR headset and, especially, the abysmally low resolutions.)

Yeah this "VR will replace everything" always made me scratch my beard. Of course I played around with virtual movie theatres and the like, and my gut reaction was: Nuh uh! Why would I put a bulky headseat on my head and watch a movie in consireably worse quality, when I can plonk my ass on my sofa and watch in much better quality on my 65" TV in the living room? Answer: I don't. Maybe it's for basement dwellers who don't own a proper TV? I don't know. Not for me.

Apple seems to try to push this "VR is everything" narrative too (even if they insist that their headset is not a VR headset). But the truth seems to be that, with all improvements, the headset is still bulky and uncomfortable. And also, a few goodish flat screens don't cost 3500 bucks . I don't think the big VR revolution will happen in my lifetime.

Although this will probably make no difference for you, the FB requirement for Quest headsets was dropped 23 Aug 2022

The personal information required for a Meta account is on par with Steam, Frontier, Epic, et al.

But you still need an account for it. Which makes me cherish my Reverb G2 - plug it in, set it up, play, done. No account nonsense or anything. I wish there were more like these, because at some point my Reverb will become obsolete...

Elite is much better in VR than pancake.

See, this is debateable even amongst the VR players. Certainly I do think so, and I've always said that, on the flat screen, you play a spaceship game, but in VR, you fly a frikkin' spaceship. But I've read numerous posts here from people actually owning VR who said "nuh, most time can't be bothered, I just prefer 2D". You have to be a very special individual to endure strapping an uncomfortable warm headset to your forehead for hours.

 

[Jmanis]

It depends on the bugs, I suppose - which ones in particular are you thinking of?

Busted Outbreak Massacres >.>

 

[DjVortex]

Elite is much better in VR than pancake.
Apart from on foot of course.
Somehow elite just got it right.

I happen to have an Oculus Rift S, and I once tried ED with it in order to see what it would be like. While it was cool and all, it didn't really excite me so much. (While the Rift S has a quite decent resolution, it's still low enough that the smaller texts are hard to read, which was perhaps one of the most annoying things about the experience.)

But given how much people are hyping the ED VR experience, maybe I'll give it another try. Maybe I just didn't try it for long enough.

Would need to figure out an alternative to some of my keyboard bindings. (I use an Xbox One X controller, which has plenty of button combos, but still...)

 

[Helmut Grokenberger]

I happen to have an Oculus Rift S, and I once tried ED with it in order to see what it would be like. While it was cool and all, it didn't really excite me so much. (While the Rift S has a quite decent resolution, it's still low enough that the smaller texts are hard to read, which was perhaps one of the most annoying things about the experience.)

But given how much people are hyping the ED VR experience, maybe I'll give it another try. Maybe I just didn't try it for long enough.

Would need to figure out an alternative to some of my keyboard bindings. (I use an Xbox One X controller, which has plenty of button combos, but still...)

For what it is worth, the Rift S is quite low quality compared to the more recent headset generations. I've started with the Rift S five years ago, and while it got me hooked instantly, very soon I felt the need to upgrade for better visuals, and bought a Reverb G2 like 18 months after I bought the Rift S. And then of course the "chasing your tail" of upgrading the hardware to be able to feed the headset began... But image quality wise, there's a big difference between the Rift S and even my Reverb G2 (even if I can only run at 50% to get satisfying frame rates).

 

[DjVortex]

Apple seems to try to push this "VR is everything" narrative too (even if they insist that their headset is not a VR headset). But the truth seems to be that, with all improvements, the headset is still bulky and uncomfortable. And also, a few goodish flat screens don't cost 3500 bucks . I don't think the big VR revolution will happen in my lifetime.

Maybe if technology advances enough that a VR headset is completely wireless and the size, shape and weight of normal sunglasses (and can be used equally easily), and the price is that of your typical hand-held console, then perhaps wider adoption will happen.

I'm not saying that's impossible, but it might take some time, if it ever happens.

 

[Dragsham]

I use twin sticks (virpils babes) and a mouse for VR.
Being left handed means I can use the left stick on foot almost as good as a keyboard. Bear in mind I cannot touch type at all.
But the real game changer is the headset and gpu.
Pushing the G2 reverb with a 3090 just does it. 4k clear crystal high res full colour. Yeah trust me it smokes@!

 

[Shurimal]

I don't know what you're talking about.

I've been playing exclusively in VR for about 5 years now. The new Quest 3 is easier to use than a monitor. Just turn it on and fly.

I doubt ED will be able to attract many new casual players. But ED can attract a lot of VR owners. I think VR improvements should be in every patch.

I understand where you're coming from since I am part of a niche technical hobby myself

Let me just state the following from my own niche hobby POV:

Fully active speaker system using DSP based crossovers and room correction, dedicated power amp for each driver and low diffraction cabinet designs, supported by an 18" subwoofer system and tactile transducers, in an acoustically treated room is the absolute best way to listen to music, watch movies/TV and play games. I've been using such system for 9 years now and it's the only way I want to enjoy my content. It's the state of the art and no soundbar or small passive bookself speaker can create such immersive audio experience. And Elite: Dangerous has so, so good sound design, it absolutely blows your socks off and is one of the best games for immersive audio!

Everyone should get a sound system like I have. You, too should get such a sound system—it's just awesome! I have friends who have listened to my sound system and are now building their own, hell, one just recently bought two 21" subs to go with some state-of-the-art Hypex amps and Purifi midbass drivers!

But do you really care about sound to such an obsessive degree? Or are you perfectly happy with the headphones of your VR set? And there's nothing wrong to be perfectly happy with what you already have.

Audio hobby is much like VR hobby—once you get into it, it gets hard to understand why people would use flatscreen displays for gaming or are perfectly happy with their TV-s built-in speakers. But the fact is, our hobbies is the 1%, rest of the people simply don't care enough, no matter how much we wax epic about the benefits and awesomeness.

 

[Helmut Grokenberger]

Maybe if technology advances enough that a VR headset is completely wireless and the size, shape and weight of normal sunglasses (and can be used equally easily), and the price is that of your typical hand-held console, then perhaps wider adoption will happen.

I'm not saying that's impossible, but it might take some time, if it ever happens.

I don't know if that will ever happen. Maybe in the area of AR, but for proper immersive VR you still need to shield the user's vision from the environment in my opinion. Which still means some bulk on your forehead. I don't think for proper VR we will ever get rid of the bulk.

 

[Helmut Grokenberger]

Fully active speaker system using DSP based crossovers and room correction, dedicated power amp for each driver and low diffraction cabinet designs, supported by an 18" subwoofer system and tactile transducers, in an acoustically treated room is the absolute best way to listen to music, watch movies/TV and play games. I've been using such system for 9 years now and it's the only way I want to enjoy my content. It's the state of the art and no soundbar or small passive bookself speaker can create such immersive audio experience. And Elite: Dangerous has so, so good sound design, it absolutely blows your socks off and is one of the best games for immersive audio!

Everyone should get a sound system like I have. You, too should get such a sound system—it's just awesome! I have friends who have listened to my sound system and are now building their own, hell, one just recently bought two 21" subs to go with some state-of-the-art Hypex amps and Purifi midbass drivers!

Exactly. I like good sound in my living room, and I spend some good money for it (about a thousand bucks for a good set of active speakers), but I stopped at the point where, to improve, I would have to treat my room. I don't want to live in a Bose demo studio, I don't want to sound treat my living room. It's cumbersome and ugly. So I stick to a goodish set of speakers and accept the compromise I might have to make in sound quality.

I like that analogy .

 

[Shadowsnog]

I understand where you're coming from since I am part of a niche technical hobby myself

Let me just state the following from my own niche hobby POV:

Fully active speaker system using DSP based crossovers and room correction, dedicated power amp for each driver and low diffraction cabinet designs, supported by an 18" subwoofer system and tactile transducers, in an acoustically treated room is the absolute best way to listen to music, watch movies/TV and play games. I've been using such system for 9 years now and it's the only way I want to enjoy my content. It's the state of the art and no soundbar or small passive bookself speaker can create such immersive audio experience. And Elite: Dangerous has so, so good sound design, it absolutely blows your socks off and is one of the best games for immersive audio!

Everyone should get a sound system like I have. You, too should get such a sound system—it's just awesome! I have friends who have listened to my sound system and are now building their own, hell, one just recently bought two 21" subs to go with some state-of-the-art Hypex amps and Purifi midbass drivers!

But do you really care about sound to such an obsessive degree? Or are you perfectly happy with the headphones of your VR set? And there's nothing wrong to be perfectly happy with what you already have.

Audio hobby is much like VR hobby—once you get into it, it gets hard to understand why people would use flatscreen displays for gaming or are perfectly happy with their TV-s built-in speakers. But the fact is, our hobbies is the 1%, rest of the people simply don't care enough, no matter how much we wax epic about the benefits and awesomeness.

just a while ago i read somewhere that audiophiles dont use their hardware to listen to music. they use music to listen to their audio setup sounds about right i guess

 

[Rory12]

But I've read numerous posts here from people actually owning VR who said "nuh, most time can't be bothered, I just prefer 2D". You have to be a very special individual to endure strapping an uncomfortable warm headset to your forehead for hours.

Usually, after a series of clarifying questions, it turns out that such people “tried glasses from a friend.” )

Usually, after a series of clarifying questions, such people say “they tried glasses from a friend.” There are those who play simulation games with a mouse and keyboard.
But if you've put thousands of hours into a game, it's foolish to pass up the great fun and immersion through joysticks, pedals and VR.