Another request to balance chaff units

[the100thmonkey]

Remove gimbals then chaff is redundant. The issue isn't with the chaff, its with the sanctioned aimbot crutch that is available in outfitting.

Fixed are great if you're in a combat-oriented ship. I'm not so sure they're all that wonderful in a T9

On top of that, not all of us are interested in PvP. For example, I get my fix for that elsewhere - Battlefield and Robocraft in particular suit that way of playing. Elite, in my opinion, does not. If it did, you wouldn't have solo, or, indeed, combat loggers.

*edit*

Basically, Elite takes a brown one on newbie players - it really does - by being difficult to get started in. Once you've bootstrapped yourself into a medium ship, it's a ... cat (lol @ the forum censorware!). However, the initial experience of the game encourages a defensive mentality towards your assets. That, and the available game modes, tells me that it's categorically not a PvP game. If you'd prefer to test your flight skills to the max, you can use FA-off and fixed weapons. It makes very little difference in the grand scheme of things though, as there are always ways to escape from an unwelcome situation.

There are multiple (many, many multiple) ways to play the game; gimballed and turreted weapons not only enable that but they reflect reality, in that even in the 21st century, it's far more efficient in many situations to get the computer to aim for you.

 

[Altair8800]

Try it with turrets?

Oh oh oh, not learned yet to configure your turrets to fixed?

 

[shadragon]

Gimbals work fine. If chaff is used, deselect your target, then the weapons drop into fixed mode. When the chaff wears off, lock back on.

 

[Brujah]

If you're in an Anaconda, and your 4+ turrets cannot lock, for minutes on end, is that OK?


ps: As for the "un-target" for gimbals, as I said, personally I'd like there to be an option (bind/toggle) to control that.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -



You won't see PvE calling for these rebalances for one obvious reason, NPCs are not allowed to spam like CMDRs. You do not see NPCs using the same mechanics as CMDRs are allowed to. Reason being it would frustrate too many people.

Have you even tried shooting an NPC and not been able to lock on with gimbals for minutes on end as they have 3 chaff units? Have you ever been attacking an NPC python and had to wait while they use a dozen SCB cells from 4+ SCBs??

Well, two of us here have said we've experienced NPCs spamming chaff, so I don't think you're correct there.

Additionally, if you could set your gimballs to forward-fire, why would anyone fit fixed? The power and damage difference between the two is pretty negligible at the moment, so that would all have to be modified to factor that in.

 

[Crimson Kaim]

I have to be careful what I am sharing, OP

 

[NeilF]

Oh oh oh, not learned yet to configure your turrets to fixed?

Actually, if an option was added to toggle that setting, rather than it being tucked away in the system panel, that could be argued to be a reasonable move to help with the matter?

So would you say, two reasonable suggestions might be then to:-
1) Allow a hold/toggle for fixing gimbals forwards?
2) Allow a hold/toggle for fixing turrets forwards?

Done?

Gimbals work fine. If chaff is used, deselect your target, then the weapons drop into fixed mode. When the chaff wears off, lock back on.

Fair call... But often with CMDRs more geared towards PvP... the chaff never wears off

So you're:-
- down to weaker "fixed weapons", with 25% less damage
- no target lock/data
- and not the small gimbal correction fixed weapons do offer (can someone confirm - I'm unsure about this one?)?

 

[MottiKhan]

Try it with turrets?

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -


Fair point... I can semi-go with that actually TBH...

But if the Anaconda, as you'd expect, is mostly turrets?

So, your problem is that your Anaconda doesn't work like a Python? Instead of nerfing something that works perfectly, how about buying a Python?

If you've been here for more than a week, you're well aware that FD doesn't balance things when they nerf/buff. They go overboard like there's no filter. Even mentioning it has now put it on their radar. Shame on you.

 

[Brujah]

Turrets, yes. Gimbals, no.

A big advantage of turrets over gimbals is the facility to bind them to forward fire. That should be retained.

 

[Crimson Kaim]

imho, the commander with 3 chaff chains dosent have a shield booster and therefore with my fixed beam, I'm happy. If i had gimbled id untarget and do it that way. Basically i think they are balanced because they might inconvenience the gimbled user but against someone with fixed they have nerf'd themselves and made themselves an easier target, a choice they make.

Basically. I have one 0E SB though

 

[Garbarrage]

+1 for the "Chaff is balanced" camp.
+1 for the "NPCs do spam chaff" camp.

 

[Altair8800]

Actually, if an option was added to toggle that setting, rather than it being tucked away in the system panel, that could be argued to be a reasonable move to help with the matter?

So would you say, two reasonable suggestions might be then to:-
1) Allow a hold/toggle for fixing gimbals forwards?
2) Allow a hold/toggle for fixing turrets forwards?

Done?

Much more reasonable than asking for another balacing of stuff that works OK, and then might not be usable anymore at all, IMHO.

 

[Cmdr Moritz]

Removing gimbals would be fine by me the day I can adjust the convergence of my cannons...

 

[Mephane]

I don't see the PVE players asking for the nerfs though, only the PVP. And that really wasn't a rant, just another observation of who is asking for nerfs. If you thought that was a rant then you obviously don't live with a women. lol

Well I am a PvE player and want to see a cooldown on chaff reuse.

 

[Kristov]

The fact that you can SET your turrets is pointed out, your counter with 'but it's not automagic! I want a quick button to hit!'...why? Oh, right, PvP...my bad!

Get over it, you want something that's done by NPCs as well as Players, spamming chaff, and yes NPCs do it as well, you'd KNOW that if you weren't only doing PvP, changed so that you can do better in PvP with your turrets, but you aren't willing to actually SET your turrets so that you can easily ignore chaff because..oh..right..PvP, you want the computer to take care of those turrets for you so you don't actually have to aim or anything silly like that.

Did I miss something there? You don't like that other players can make your turrets useless because you refuse to set them properly because that makes their autokilling ability less nominal, so you want chaff nerfed to suit your personal tastes.

Again, failing to see the problem with chaff, NPCs spam it quite often, you can get around that easily enough even with turrets, no need to fix anything ingame....maybe your attitude needs some adjustment, but the game is fine in this area.

 

[NeilF]

So, your problem is that your Anaconda doesn't work like a Python? Instead of nerfing something that works perfectly, how about buying a Python?

If you've been here for more than a week, you're well aware that FD doesn't balance things when they nerf/buff. They go overboard like there's no filter. Even mentioning it has now put it on their radar. Shame on you.

Something of a straw man no? Or are you suggesting no one is ever attacked by other CMDRs while flying an Anaconda? Shame on you.

 

[Heater]

Learn to use fixed weapons... problem solved.

 

[NeilF]

Well I am a PvE player and want to see a cooldown on chaff reuse.

Out of interesting, in PvE do you ever daisy chain chaff units as being discussed is being done in PvP? I bet it's far less common... I wonder why?

 

[Deleted member 38366]

NPCs don't use sequenced multi-chaff.

But I sure wish they did to no end, just to demonstrate what happens when 40M+ Turrets become utterly useless due to 17k Cr worth of Equipment.

I don't see much of an issue with Gimbals, as the manual unlocking process is quick enough.
Fiddling Turrets to Fixed On/Off in the right Modules panel would drive me nuts, though.
Plus - Ships relying on Turrets aren't having issues because they'd need to switch their Turrets to fixed back&forth - it's because they'd be useless either due to Hardpoint placement and/or lack of required maneuverability.

It's really that simple.

The stealth-buff the Chaff launchers received (auto-sequencing) probably wasn't implemented with bad intentions... but clearly without realizing the resulting consequences

Anyway, with the strange ways the SCB rebalancing attempts went in mind so far - who knows, maybe next thing we know we have 20sec Chaff time or 50 Ammo to buff them *shrugs*

 

[NeilF]

Learn to use fixed weapons... problem solved.

Well, if we use that approach, the solution to countering someone carrying four SCBs, is "learn to carry four SCBs".

It's correct, but not necessary a sign of a balanced interesting game mechanic IMHO.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

NPCs don't use sequenced multi-chaff.

I've certainly never witnessed is in 1+ years in the game!

But I sure wish they did to no end, just to demonstrate what happens when 40M+ Turrets become utterly useless due to 17k Cr worth of Equipment.

I don't see much of an issue with Gimbals, as the manual unlocking process is quick enough.
Fiddling Turrets to Fixed On/Off in the right Modules panel would drive me nuts, though.
Plus - Ships relying on Turrets aren't having issues because they'd need to switch their Turrets to fixed back&forth - it's because they'd be useless either due to Hardpoint placement and/or lack of required maneuverability.

It's really that simple.

The stealth-buff the Chaff launchers received (auto-sequencing) probably wasn't implemented with bad intentions... but clearly without realizing the resulting consequences

Anyway, with the strange ways the SCB rebalancing attempts went in mind - who knows, maybe next thing we know we have 20sec Chaff time or 50 Ammo to buff them *shrugs*

Agreed!

I do feel the only solutiobn is chaff needs to be balanced a tad so it can't create a constant "shield"... The outcome? People stop having 3 chaff units, and instead employ those modules for other (now more beneficial) things. Variety in PvP? Surely that can't be a good thing? What nonsense!

 

[shadragon]

Chaff works fine. I'd just like it to be consistent for PC and NPC's.