Any grind, is in your mind.

[drzdeano]

Can we get some clarification on the meaning of "grind" in a procedurally generated universe?

What are you all expecting? Hand crafted storylines?

Name any other game that doesn't have repetitive gameplay? some hide it better than others.

I get the distinct feeling the devs are to busy making the game to bother with silly details like plot and story. Which is pritty much the only thing in a game that keeps it "fresh". Imo, fdev should hire some (more) full-time staff to create and maintain a few different "story-arcs".

Better and more frequent that the current alien /Jacques /imperial plots. CG'S forming just part of the activities each story has

 

[jasonbarron]

I disagree Jason. You are using an absolute - a 'my way or the high way' argument and with all due respect that is not the bottom line. Mostly because there can never be such a thing as a bottom line on something that is subjective and depends on each person's opinion and feeling.

When some people say some activities are a grind, they're not lying. They don't necesarily want goal posts moved. They're not wearing tinfoil hats. They're not witches to be burned at the stake. They're simply telling you a truth that exists in this game.

I for example do not wish "the finish line is closer" I simply want more activities that are polished and refined as apposed to a naked skeleton that offers nothing but a barren, lifeless repetition of the same 'tasks' with obsolutely no attempt at variation, flavour or challenge. Not every activity in ED is like that but over more than half are. I simply want to see the game improve and if that means I'm going to be shat on by other people, well then that         sucks but so be it. I'll continue to play my way and look for opportunities to help make the game better.

Then they should break their activities up to give themselves some variety. I'm chasing after my third Elite rank, Combat, and I know full well how soul crushing some of these goals can be if you focus on them to the exclusion of all other things.

I mean no offense, Martin, I simply disagree. I'm certainly not trying to burn anybody at the stake or "s**t" on anybody.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

I've the distinct impression modern gamers don't know how to multitask.

They are trained for goal oriented life. To be assemble droids. And trust me I sometimes myself think it is teh right way to live life. Because having actual freedom is very confusing. Brains does not compute.

 

[TIVBS]

Is this a skateboarding thread?? Kool!

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

I disagree Jason. You are using an absolute - a 'my way or the high way' argument and with all due respect that is not the bottom line. Mostly because there can never be such a thing as a bottom line on something that is subjective and depends on each person's opinion and feeling.

When some people say some activities are a grind, they're not lying. They don't necesarily want goal posts moved. They're not wearing tinfoil hats. They're not witches to be burned at the stake. They're simply telling you a truth that exists in this game.

I for example do not wish "the finish line is closer" I simply want more activities that are polished and refined as apposed to a naked skeleton that offers nothing but a barren, lifeless repetition of the same 'tasks' with obsolutely no attempt at variation, flavour or challenge. Not every activity in ED is like that but over more than half are. I simply want to see the game improve and if that means I'm going to be shat on by other people, well then that         sucks but so be it. I'll continue to play my way and look for opportunities to help make the game better.

It is essentially their truth, which is as good as ours. Can you accept that?

 

[James Razor]

It is essentially their truth, which is as good as ours. Can you accept that?

There is no 'truth' here. Just personal opinion and perception.

If it feels like a grind to you, it is a grind. If not, than not. I can not tell you how you experience this nor can someone tell me how i experience this. But we can agree or disagree if we think that it feels similar. And i have to agree that E-D at times feels like a grind. Because any meaningfull advancement in the game is not achieved by doing fun stuff, but by doing boring, repetitive tasks.

AGAIN: This is purely how I feel about it and how i experience the game. Both the perception of 'advancement' and 'fun stuff' are purely subjective and in no way absolute terms.

But there is one thing that strikes me about E-D and Fdevs way to do things:
Since the launch of the game it has become harder to advance compared to the starting times. Rare trading as an example isnt a thing anymore (i did a run recently just to see if it is worth the time and effort and found that it is not). Ok, my perception in that regard is definatly flawed, because i own a trade cutter that does about 2 Million Cr per A-B-A trip.
So anything that pays below that is just no longer worth the time if it does not make considerably much more fun. Which brings me to missions, which i think didnt by far pay enough (exceptions like Sothis/Ceos excluded, but tbh.: i can still make more money faster in the Cutter with less hazzle than do a Sothis run).
The problem is: Missions now also have been hit with the nerf hammer as has been reported all over the board. And the new passenger-missions at the moment are still somewhat buggy and do not realy offer that much of different gameplay (as someone else said: Cargo with an attitude).

What i realy think is needed here is FDev to tone down on things a bit and do small adjustments instead of either buffing something beyond sanity or nerfig it down deeper than the deepest hell. Small adjustments, not massive nerfs or buffs until a balance has been reached (as an example, keep the cargo limit on rare goods, but push that limit up somewhat).

 

[Garrus]

What you get from this is one person's grind is another persons relaxing/fun/immersive gameplay. With a sandbox game you can't please everyone so this whole discussion is pointless, removing one persons grind is removing another persons favourite thing in the game.

So instead of complaining about "the grind", we should start discussing what would enhance & deepen the existing features.

Positive discussion over negative.

And yes complaining about complaining is just as bad as the complaining. (I'm as guilty of this as anyone)

Funny, I tend to go the other way around. Whenever I see versions on the phrase, "there is no grind" I'm not inclined to continue reading because it tells me this person is mistakenly interpreting a subjective thing as an absolute fact that applies for everyone - which is always going to be incorrect. Only Sith (and cheeky Jedi) deal in absolutes

I would prefer it if people would add "in my opinion/experience" when using a variation of the phrase "there is no grind". It's less combatitive - less 'I'm telling you how the game is meant to be played' - and also more truthful. There is grind in ED because grind means doing repetitive (often times unchallenging) tasks over and over again in order to progress in terms of credits, ranks, etc. It is the way the game's credit gathering, material gathering, military ranks, reputation systems and CGs are designed. There's nothing inherently wrong in this, every MMO-type game has an element of repetitive tasks. However it's about how much enjoyment value the player gets from doing these tasks that matters - because that strongly influences whether the player feels like they're monotonously grinding towards a destination or if they're actually enjoying the journey itself.

In my opinion, ED is limping in this regard because it hasn't yet refined and polished the systems that it requires us to use in order to run specific tasks and work towards a destination. Something like Engineers, missions, the bounty spawn-camping proffession, military ranks and CGs; all of these things do not have an enjoyable journey built into them yet and as such they feel like a monotone grind. They need work.

What I really don't like is how people that attempt to discuss this matter are more often than not being told to shut up because these forums have developed this 'lovely' get out of jail blanket term called "there is no grind" because you're playing the game wrongly, because I said so, etc, etc. And this shuts off legitimate conversation and attempts to tell people they are not allowed to voice their displeasure, their concerns or even offer constructive criticism on the subject of grind. Because the mere word itself has developed an illogicaly controversial vibe on these forums. Attempting to instantly shut off and stifle avenues of conversation and debate on this subject by throwing out subjective phrases such as "there is no grind, move along, you're doing it wrong, this isn't the game for you" is dishonest and not right in my opinion because it's not helping the game improve. It's just fostering contempt for your fellow gamer and dehumanising them simply for daring to a have a difference of opinion and/or experience.

-----------------------------------------------------


Well said Ziggy.

I disagree Jason. You are using an absolute - a 'my way or the high way' argument and with all due respect that is not the bottom line. Mostly because there can never be such a thing as a bottom line on something that is subjective and depends on each person's opinion and feeling.

When some people say some activities are a grind, they're not lying. They don't necesarily want goal posts moved. They're not wearing tinfoil hats. They're not witches to be burned at the stake. They're simply telling you a truth that exists in this game.

I for example do not wish "the finish line is closer" I simply want more activities that are polished and refined as apposed to a naked skeleton that offers nothing but a barren, lifeless repetition of the same 'tasks' with obsolutely no attempt at variation, flavour or challenge. Not every activity in ED is like that but over more than half are. I simply want to see the game improve and if that means I'm going to be shat on by other people, well then that         sucks but so be it. I'll continue to play my way and look for opportunities to help make the game better.

What I've put in bold above is absolutely true, and sadly K-Rose and Martian Successor, I can't rep you any more than I already have.

"Grind" is subjective - what's one person's grind is another person's "this helps me relax after work" activity. That's fine, there's nothing wrong with that in either regard. Both are valid - both exist and have a right to exist. Respecting other viewpoints is a critical skill that should be encouraged.

"Any grind is in your mind" is a pseudo-Buddhist philosophical way to say "I don't recognize your opinion as valid because I've never felt that way about this game." Sure, you can say it, but it's extreme and it ostracizes the other players who do feel that there is some element of grind to this game. Likewise, the "this whole game is a grind fest and if you don't see that you're a blind old bat" does the same thing to those who enjoy activities that can be seen as a grind by others.

What we, as a community of Elite Dangerous players, need to do is realize that, and have some kind of constructive conversation about how to improve Elite and our experiences with it. Yeah, there will be disagreements and arguments, but that's normal - just respect those you disagree with.

The Elite community is capable of fantastic things - the Walter Waldo CG and Distant Worlds expedition are examples of that. Like any community, it's also capable of things you never want to see, like insulting players who choose to voice a differing opinion. Let's keep trying to do the former and not the latter.

*That said, I do understand this is a forum on the internet, so the greater internet     wad theory can always rear it's ugly head.

 

[unity100]

there is grind by game design.

in almost all games that are not platforms and not open world sandbox simulations, there is grind.

its not a byproduct, its not unintended, its by design.

it is used to increase your 'play time' of the game - a crappy metric which was invented circa mid 2000s by major companies to gauge their game's 'value' when gaming was being industrialized. not only it was used as a metric, but also it was used for advertising.

today it afflicts all games, elite is no exception.

your progression towards ships and what you can do in universe is limited by your funds, and your funds are limited by what you can do to get them. when what you can do to get funds is changed in any way, it affects where you can go, what you can do. the entire thing is designed to make it so that you can reach a certain level/point in the game and do a certain activity only within a defined minimum and average time interval to get to that point even if you solely concentrated on it. multiple paths a player can take while playing is also taken into account during game design and it is made sure that player cannot take shortcuts.

so it doesnt matter whether you enjoy fooling around in a cobra mk 3 and get great kick out of it - the game is still designed to have grind to increase your 'play time' to ensure that you cannot reach 'endgame content' easily and on average you will have to spend a certain amount of time doing whatever activity that is designed to get to a point - even if that is flying a cobra mk3 fully decked and just fooling around in star systems.

elite, wow and many other games use it to prevent you from doing whatever you want to do (or can be done) in the game in 2-3 weeks' time and go away. even if you get great kick and enjoyment during that period. a game's 'retention' of its players is also a critical measure in gaming industry.

so there is grind, and there will be. your denial or mental interpretation is irrelevant to the matter.

...........

as long as it doesnt break realism/believability and it doesnt make the game a chore, grind is not a problem.

however when it goes over a certain amount in order to satisfy grind/achievement crowd, majority of gamers leave a game, as even wow found out despite its cult crowd which had high loyalty.

now they introduced many measures to prevent the immense level grind from 0 to 85 - heirloom gears bump up xp gain ~115%, missions are streamlined, there is frequent xp bonus weekends and whatnot.

same happened in swg - they relegated all non-storyline missions to side quest status and bumped up xp for storyline quests so much to enable people leveling up merely through playing the storyline.

its because irreverent of any kind of satisfaction for achievement crowd, people do not like grind. actually even achievement crowd starts to slow down and then just bail out after their 4-5th character.

so, grind which doesnt break realism or playability is ok, but nerfing things like high paying smuggling missions, or trading missions, nerfing ENTIRE galaxy so that anything will take same amount of time with other activities so that one group of people do not feel that others are 'cheating' is totally broken.

there would be no central authority in a galaxy to 'nerf' a smuggling route so that the route would pay similar or slightly higher than doing normal trading.

it breaks illusion of believability the moment you hear it - there was a high risk, long distance high reward smuggling run, but the galactic central authority 'nerfed' it so that other traders 500 lightyears away in the universe would not feel their trading was of lower value...

surreal.

in a real universe you could use your connections, call a favor, do something high-risk, high-reward or pull some strings to get to a point or pull off something that was beyond your means in general. like, buying a more expensive ship on loan, or buying an impounded ship, or pulling a very high risk smuggling mission to gulp a pile of cash to enable you buy a much larger ship, bribe someone to be able to access a station/planet - whatever you can imagine.

in case you notice no such thing exists in the game. the elite universe is eerily uniform-ized. no one can 'skip levels' - everyone have to progress through ship/outfitting/ranks over a certain minimum time period possible. you cant take shortcuts.

there seems to have been an exception to this uniformity in the sense of high reward long distance smuggling missions, like how they are present in our reality and as they would be present in a fictional galaxy, but they were nerfed to keep that uniformity and whatever time limit it was designed during game design for amassing cash (levels) and gaining capabilities (ships).

...........

it should have been realistic - even if ~95% of the galaxy has evenly distributed trade (or smuggling) opportunities, there would be a few spots in which there were routes which few people would want to take despite their higher reward. but for the people who go for it, the rewards should have been extensive.

just like how your ordinary trucker in US is not so much inclined to smuggle drugs from south america from mexican border, but there are smugglers who do it and make heaps of cash.

 

[Falcon_D]

As I climb onto my soap box, I know I'm going to offend some people, but I have to be a little cruel to be kind. I've hauled on my fire-proof britches and I'm gonna say it anyway.

I see the word "grind" daily, multiple times a day, in these forums. If you find the game to be a grind, it isn't the game, it's you. It's either impatience on your part, or you feel the need to have the largest ships with the best components, NOW. You think having them will make your gaming experience better in some way. We've seen the forum posts about people going from a Sidey to an Anaconda in a weekend and I really have to shake my head and ask why someone feels the need to do something like that?

Elite: Dangerous can't be won; there is no end game. It's not like other games out there where you get a high score when you get the 'GAME OVER' banner. You never finish Elite, you can only exist in the game universe. Once you're in the "best" ship, fully upgraded through Engineers, where do you go from there? Once you have seventeen billion in the bank, what's next? Why the rush? Elite is not a game measured in hours spent playing. It is a game where people spend hundreds, if not thousands, of hours playing. I've got 4,000+ hours and have never been in an Anaconda (outside of Beta). I've reset one of my CMDR's four times now. Some long-term players do have Condas and Corvettes, BUT rushing into a top end ship, without knowing how to fly or fight it will eventually result in tears.

It's time for a long hard look in a mirror. If you truly see Elite as a grind rather than as a long term experience, then you are doing it wrong. Elite is either a game you are unsuited for, or one you are not prepared to play properly. If you play Elite like DOOM, Stellaris, Fallout or any of the other traditional games, then you will be disappointed. Elite isn't one of those. There's no final boss fight or fade-to-black cut-scene. I hate to be the one to tell you, but even with a fully Engineered A-rated Corvette you're still an insignificant speck in the galaxy. Such is the scale of this amazing simulation.

I've got 280'ish games on Steam alone. I love some, like others and hate a few. I don't play the ones I don't like at all, because I recognize that they are not right for me. Just because you bought Elite does not mean it will automatically fulfill all your hopes, dreams and desires. I wouldn't expect it to change to meet your expectations either. In fact, your skewed expectations are probably what's causing your grief in game.

Elite presents several career options you can drop in or out of anytime. However, while this is seen as a welcome addition by some, others take a more pessimistic approach.

Trading - "I don't want to do that."

Mining - "I don't want to do that."

Exploration - "I don't want to do that."

Piracy - "I don't want to do that."

Missions - "I don't want to do that."

Smuggling - "I don't want to do that, unless I can make 50 mil an hour from Sothis to make it worth my time."

None of the above is the games fault.

Elite players, who play long term, recognize that the journey is more important than the destination. Yes, you pick up things to improve your position, but most will come your way as you just play the game. The one or two things that don't, you can focus on over time, rather than bopping all over core space in a frenzy to get everything in a rush. Take your time and it's fun rather than a grind. I don't think I'm exaggerating when I say an Elite player with 1,000 hours in the game will have as much fun in an E-rated Sidey as an A-rated FDL. Elite isn't about what you have, nor is it about what you gain. If you don't (or can't) see that, then Elite simply may not be the game for you. Elite is as much about your state of mind as it is actual game play. Sometimes those two things don't fit.

Any grind, is in your mind.

Amen, brother. Well said.

And I would like to add, that it is not like any of the RPGs or most MMOs that people have played. There is no end game. There is not epic lootz. There is no legendary armour at the end of the long, dragon filled raid dungeon. There are no low level zones that you can go into and basically pawnz the low level mobs, with your legendary ship.

I've heard so many times, the Conda, Corvette and Cutter being referred to as end-game ships. And I just want to ask, where is this mystical end-game? What did you see at this end-game? Did you experience some new content that a noob in a sidey can't?

 

[relayer]

Everything about this game is a grind.

Everything about life is a grind, if you want to look at it that way.

and are time poor because of employment or family commitments.

So, you hate to grind in E|D because you are grinding your employment ranks and house for the family. But that's because you wanted something and must work/grind to get it.

 

[JuicerPrime]

I've heard so many times, the Conda, Corvette and Cutter being referred to as end-game ships. And I just want to ask, where is this mystical end-game? What did you see at this end-game? Did you experience some new content that a noob in a sidey can't?

In the brief time I was there, I experienced the warm feeling that comes with owning a large, capable ship able to meet most tasks head-on and enough credits that everything - from rebuys to fitting - was comfortably covered. It beat the feeling of the Sidey, which was like being in a tiny soap bubble that couldn't go very far or carry much, and was basically waiting to be popped by the first random interdiction above its weight class. It was a nice feeling - I can see why people grind for it

 

[relayer]

I love my cats. But sometimes I find the clearing up their poop from the litter tray (outside) is a grind.

At least the dog is not eating it.

 

[relayer]

All goals in ED are a grind because they all require MASSIVE repetition of the same thing.

Please name one game, computer or not, that does not have a building-up phase.

Skyrim? You start out with crappy broken axes and have to collect many other crappy weapons to sell so you can get that fine steel longsword you have your eye set on.

Diablo? More of the same crappy weapons plus killing level bosses 4,891 times til a half-decent weapon drops.

Age of Empires? Build build build while you chop chop chop and mine, mine, mine.

Minecraft? Nothing there til you start building, block upon block upon...

Civilization II? Chop chop mine mine build huts build huts.

I could keep going on computer games but -

Monopoly? Have to keep going round and round the board, trying to get those precious mid-side properties. Have to keep getting crappy land rent until you have houses, then hotels.

Cribbage? Slowly inching up the board. Poker? The same five cards again; the same bets again. Croquet? Hit a ball, over and over. Chess? Same 16 pieces; even more restricted color scheme; the same moves over and over.

Pool? 10 balls, 6 pockets; it takes a lot of practice, er I mean grind, to do a whole table run.

Hula hoop? Round and round and round. Skeet shooting? "Pull." *BLAM* "Pull." *BLAM* "Pull." *BLAM* Horseshoe throwing? The same "g-d- it I just clanged my head with this stupid iron thing."

Knife-throwing? Throw, throw, throw until you're good enough to not kill someone. Bridge? Fuggedaboudit.

 

[Shar]

Ed is a grind fest. Don't think so? Your in denial.

Well your the one playing a game you dislike so who is it that really has a denial problem?[wacky] Just like Elite you're self defeating grind arguments have no endgame. Those of us that want a slow long burning experience already have what we want.

Enjoy your grind because nothing is changing any time soon.

 

[Ian Skippy]

There is no 'truth' here. Just personal opinion and perception.

If it feels like a grind to you, it is a grind. If not, than not. I can not tell you how you experience this nor can someone tell me how i experience this. But we can agree or disagree if we think that it feels similar. And i have to agree that E-D at times feels like a grind. Because any meaningfull advancement in the game is not achieved by doing fun stuff, but by doing boring, repetitive tasks.

AGAIN: This is purely how I feel about it and how i experience the game. Both the perception of 'advancement' and 'fun stuff' are purely subjective and in no way absolute terms.

But there is one thing that strikes me about E-D and Fdevs way to do things:
Since the launch of the game it has become harder to advance compared to the starting times. Rare trading as an example isnt a thing anymore (i did a run recently just to see if it is worth the time and effort and found that it is not). Ok, my perception in that regard is definatly flawed, because i own a trade cutter that does about 2 Million Cr per A-B-A trip.
So anything that pays below that is just no longer worth the time if it does not make considerably much more fun. Which brings me to missions, which i think didnt by far pay enough (exceptions like Sothis/Ceos excluded, but tbh.: i can still make more money faster in the Cutter with less hazzle than do a Sothis run).
The problem is: Missions now also have been hit with the nerf hammer as has been reported all over the board. And the new passenger-missions at the moment are still somewhat buggy and do not realy offer that much of different gameplay (as someone else said: Cargo with an attitude).

What i realy think is needed here is FDev to tone down on things a bit and do small adjustments instead of either buffing something beyond sanity or nerfig it down deeper than the deepest hell. Small adjustments, not massive nerfs or buffs until a balance has been reached (as an example, keep the cargo limit on rare goods, but push that limit up somewhat).

Just pointing out things are now infinitely easier than at launch, you must remember incorrectly. Couple thousand credit for a cobda bounty, missions paid less. Mining had no limpets, piracy likewise, to collect stuff. Smuggling, 'seeking stuff', cz-mission stacking, none of these really existed.

 

[Vasea Azure]

I got Elite during the beta and I played few hundred hours at this point I think enjoying myself very much. I did not grind at all. Aaaand here I`m in my Cobra still with no perspective to moving to anything bigger like... ever with my non grindy play style.
Elite is grind y as hell if you want to progress in a reasonable pace - I just accepted that ASP will be my probably final ship.

 

[Ian Skippy]

What I've put in bold above is absolutely true, and sadly K-Rose and Martian Successor, I can't rep you any more than I already have.

"Grind" is subjective - what's one person's grind is another person's "this helps me relax after work" activity. That's fine, there's nothing wrong with that in either regard. Both are valid - both exist and have a right to exist. Respecting other viewpoints is a critical skill that should be encouraged.

"Any grind is in your mind" is a pseudo-Buddhist philosophical way to say "I don't recognize your opinion as valid because I've never felt that way about this game." Sure, you can say it, but it's extreme and it ostracizes the other players who do feel that there is some element of grind to this game. Likewise, the "this whole game is a grind fest and if you don't see that you're a blind old bat" does the same thing to those who enjoy activities that can be seen as a grind by others.

What we, as a community of Elite Dangerous players, need to do is realize that, and have some kind of constructive conversation about how to improve Elite and our experiences with it. Yeah, there will be disagreements and arguments, but that's normal - just respect those you disagree with.

The Elite community is capable of fantastic things - the Walter Waldo CG and Distant Worlds expedition are examples of that. Like any community, it's also capable of things you never want to see, like insulting players who choose to voice a differing opinion. Let's keep trying to do the former and not the latter.

*That said, I do understand this is a forum on the internet, so the greater internet     wad theory can always rear it's ugly head.

If you claim grind is subjective, it logically follows that it exists 'in your head'. That is not being dismissive, but just applying logic. Whether its good or bad, and who should do what, is a different question. Whatever is subjective does not exist objectively by definition.

 

[Truesilver]

Extracted from the OP:

... there is no end game ... Once you're in the "best" ship, fully upgraded through Engineers, where do you go from there? ... your skewed expectations are probably what's causing your grief in game ... the journey is more important than the destination.

The above are the parts of the OP that my own experiences most differ from and I thus most disagree with. I realise now that many of the 'there is no grind' posters fear the endgame.

Don't fear the endgame! It's miles better than the main game!!

Of course there is huge room for personal taste here (something all but one post on the front page entirely failed to recognise or even mention) but to my taste, the ED destination is indeed far more enjoyable than the journey.

The best fun I have had in ED was in the time from 1.3 to 2.0 inclusive, within which time I acquired max rank / creds and was thus freed of the proletarian requirements to earn my bread.

Able to live the life of an aristocrat, I could focus on personal flying skills, the devising of wing tactics, bringing vigilante justice to (suspected) PvP offenders, my player group's BGS struggles, attacking other player groups, coaching new players and the PvP League - surprisingly, at all times feeling I had much more on the 'to do' list than I could actually manage, albeit in a really good way.

This I feel is what separates my opinion from that of the OP - I vastly prefer the endgame to its acquisition.

To Cmdr Shadragon: broaden your horizons, sir. You say you have 4,000 hours in game yet have never flown an Anaconda outside of Beta. Well, then ... max out your creds and rank, then choose some endgame activities like the BGS, Powerplay or apex PvP, join a player group, play the endgame for six months straight, then come back and post about your experiences.

I'm not saying you'll like my play style more than your existing one. But wouldn't it be interesting to find out...?

You might really enjoy the endgame. You might even start to view things that delay you from pursuing your new objectives as ... unwelcome. Even as ...

... a grind?

 

[Bran Tse Mallory]

Extracted from the OP:



The above are the parts of the OP that my own experiences most differ from and I thus most disagree with. I realise now that many of the 'there is no grind' posters fear the endgame.

Don't fear the endgame! It's miles better than the main game!!

Of course there is huge room for personal taste here (something all but one post on the front page entirely failed to recognise or even mention) but to my taste, the ED destination is indeed far more enjoyable than the journey.

The best fun I have had in ED was in the time from 1.3 to 2.0 inclusive, within which time I acquired max rank / creds and was thus freed of the proletarian requirements to earn my bread.

Able to live the life of an aristocrat, I could focus on personal flying skills, the devising of wing tactics, bringing vigilante justice to (suspected) PvP offenders, my player group's BGS struggles, attacking other player groups, coaching new players and the PvP League - surprisingly, at all times feeling I had much more on the 'to do' list than I could actually manage, albeit in a really good way.

This I feel is what separates my opinion from that of the OP - I vastly prefer the endgame to its acquisition.

To Cmdr Shadragon: broaden your horizons, sir. You say you have 4,000 hours in game yet have never flown an Anaconda outside of Beta. Well, then ... max out your creds and rank, then choose some endgame activities like the BGS, Powerplay or apex PvP, join a player group, play the endgame for six months straight, then come back and post about your experiences.

I'm not saying you'll like my play style more than your existing one. But wouldn't it be interesting to find out...?

You might really enjoy the endgame. You might even start to view things that delay you from pursuing your new objectives as ... unwelcome. Even as ...

... a grind?

If this is what you think is 'Endgame' in Elite I'm glad I'll never make it there. I have always viewed the term endgame to represent that you have finished the available content and are now just playing the same missions/quests/content over and over until a new patch with more 'stuff' to do is released - Sounds like what we all do already regardless of the ship we are in or the amount of credits we have in our bank account. For me there is no desire to earn more or fly a different ship. I have found my sweet spot in the game. I can afford to re-buy the ship several times over, I can do all the activities I desire - I don't desire PvP in Elite, I use other games for that so it's not even on my list of things to do in game unless forced to.

I guess Endgame in Elite is wherever you want it to be - however I can see that getting there would require me to do a lot of things which, if I was so inclined, I could call a grind. The major difference being between me and another player - I will go and do something different, returning every so often to carry on the task I needed to do for a short while. This way there is no grind other then the one you have imposed upon yourself.

If you allow yourself to do a task over and over to the point of needing to post on the forums I feel sorry for you for not understanding that you have the freedom to choose what you do at all times.

 

[CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost]

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Don't fear the endgame! It's miles better than the main game!!
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What is "endgame" for you in a game?

I ask because I wanted to answer your posting with "there is no endgame, just personal goals", but then I realized that in some MMOs there is a PvP endgame. In those games the PvE content is finished and then the players can participate in PvP battlegrounds, arenas and other PvP activities that don't really have an end.

Knowing what commenters consider "endgame" might help to understand each other better.

I agree with you that not having to worry about progression is very liberating. Free to do what every I want without having to think about credits or if doing something else would be more effective in achieving some goal that, in the end, doesn't really matter to me.