Patch Notes Update April Update - Patch Notes

[Yamato2012]

drag munition : i'm for everything who push against this meta pvp gaming who is plasma fdl.That will force players to think with more diversity , so it's cool for pvpers.
but yeah, it's also cool for gankers.it's cool too for non fastest ships.nd that permit to annoy (in pârt) new speedy ships.
so yeah , good balancing guys

This will absolutely increase the amount of FDL usage lol, it's ability to shield tank and manoueverability when not boosting makes it obvious

 

[Sebastian Rooks]

Oh man, this explains why reverski never worked for me no matter how often I tried it. Kind of like when my dad said the way to impress girls was to put a large Yukon Gold potato in my shorts. I tried it a few times but it never seemed to work, so I went back to tell Dad and ask what I was doing wrong. He said "Son, you have to put the potato in the FRONT."

Ba-dum tsss!

At least it wasn't rolled sock up the reverski.

Rooks o7

 

[Bigmaec]

You don't understand. You and L'Intouchable and all the rest of us just don't know enough about circle strafing to criticize this change!

Lol. More incentive for seeker spam and confetti disabling boost, and this is somehow a nuanced and well thought out rebalance. While we're at it why don't we give the FDL 2 more utility slots and make the conda lighter with a larger FSD.

Fantastic Feros, you asked for it. Now we will never get a 8booster FdL or a Conda with sufficient jumprange...
Remind me again who asked for this drag Addition? Or the Guardian reinforcements? Or the maximized 3.0 engineering?

 

[Feros-da-Grundig]

This will absolutely increase the amount of FDL usage lol, it's ability to shield tank and manoueverability when not boosting makes it obvious

4 0 2 Vulture with pacifiers becomes more popular too. The most forgiving eng pips behavior in the game is going to be very handy in the new molasses PvP world. Plus with pacifiers instead of PAs it's easier to squeeze a prismatic on that OC PP.

 

[CMDR Plexus Ironrot]

Drag now disables boosting...Okay...whats the Cool Down? 30 seconds would be acceptable 15 would be annoying and 5 well 5 will just be spammed on every single gimbals or turret frag because really all it takes is one Pellet. Also would it stack? WHEW this is a bad idea...I mean sure it could really shake up the FDL Meta..for sure no doubt but the side effects are also not good. Ganking just got even easier.. However I could see this being used in Piracy to great avail! But alas this has broken PvP yet again....MJ stacking now this...Why...why can't we just shoot at each other without all these freaking meta making weapons???? UNEngineered Elite looks like a well balanced game compared to engineered now with this....It just..breaks it....I love Elite Dangerous and really trust FDEV because they made this and you can see the love they put into Elite.... but this is tone deaf this is NOT looking at how your game works and how EASY it is to exploit this.....Such a wonderful flight model such awesome weapons...and this.... this is what they do....I really don't know anymore man....this is so obvious nobody thought about this...IDK maybe I am over thinking it. Maybe I am worried over nothing...Frontier has this..right?

 

[Yamato2012]

lot things already exist to counter drag weapons seekers , but that need to exit meta gaming and force to work more on setups and not only play like cqc...
if you are a competitor who love builds , it's good new for more diversity
another point , that will permit to annoy full fa off cutters running away. so it's another balance with this new effect.
But people prefer play his fdl and ignore other points (cqc)

This is just totally out of touch with reality, if you think that making pvp in this game will make people play cqc more you have another thing coming, people don't play cqc because it sucks, making pvp suck as ll doesn't make cqc any better, the counters to drag seekers you are talking about are not good enough, keeping distance? You aren't doing damage and you are laying yourself up for everyone else shooting you, ECM? lol, no. PD? Even more hilarous. PD and ECM by the way, making you more squishy for when you get hit by those gimballed drag frags or pacifiers and when subsequently 12 people have free reign on the flat side of your ship, this will not increase diversity one bit, shield stacking, long range weapons and drag on every ship will be the meta, FDL, Cutter and maybe mamba, nothing more.

 

[Feros-da-Grundig]

lot things already exist to counter drag weapons seekers , but that need to exit meta gaming and force to work more on setups and not only play like cqc...

The counters to seekers/hounds are ridiculous. Seekers/hounds are arguably the easiest weapon in the game to use, and the counters are all difficult and drastically weaken a build especially on a small/medium ship. Using silent running toggling requires you to go shieldless, so you better not make one mistake or else the hounds eat your externals. Likewise better hope the opponent isn't running emissive munitions (but of course they are).

Dual ECMs are a mediocre counter and require you to waste half your utilities on a module that (at least until tomorrow) is almost always irrelevant to the battle. PDT is a joke against hounds always, and also and doesn't work if seekers/dumbfires/groms are fired nearly point blank or disguised in a cloud of seekers - and PDT isn't strong enough to counter torps either (which I feel are going to be very often paired with the new drag, since for the first time they will become difficult to outrun).

Frags aren't much harder to use than seekers as long as you only need to land one pellet.

So it has nothing to do with going non-meta, it's simply a terribly balanced mechanic of incredibly easy click-to-win vs. difficult and unreliable counters.

 

[Morbad]

I think the implications for the drag changes preventing escape, especially in scenarios where escape is the goal from the beginning of the encounter, are almost certainly being overstated.

Anyway, I've already stated my concerns about drag munitions becoming potent enough that no one will want to run without it. All that's left now is to see how it plays out.

When I get back to the bubble sometime in the next few days, the first thing I'm going to do is slap a high cap frag turret (those flank HPs have awesome coverage, and I want to save my triggers for my real weapons) with drag munitions on one side of my FDL and a seeker rack with the same mods on the other side. I'm a bit rusty with the FDL, but I don't expect to be losing very often to anyone not packing at least one drag hardpoint.

We'll see.

 

[Sebastian Rooks]

I should probably stop watching the thread grow and get some email to my friends that were thinking about buying Elite. I don't want to imagine the flak I'm likely to catch because of this. I hate to compare Frontier to BigPoint, but they sure smell similar atm. What a bummer...

Rooks o7

 

[Feros-da-Grundig]

I think the implications for the drag changes preventing escape, especially in scenarios where escape is the goal from the beginning of the encounter, are almost certainly being overstated.

For you

I bet most of your critical modules are armored, double braced, etc, and you run an AMFU with dual MRPs and you have several thousand hull HP. Your vette can endure more than enough time of sustained fire from ganker wings to just high wake out whenever you feel like it.

Typical "decent" pilots in decent medium builds or T-9s are now facing a much greater danger from ganking, especially from wings. Groms and torps are big winners vs. a ship that can't boost, and all but a few obscure builds (obscenely fast couriers, maybe some silent running builds, etc.) are going to have a very difficult time evading the first drag shot/missile.

Assuming the cooldown is short, they will remain unable to boost, then it will be impossible to evade subsequent drag shots, which means they probably won't be able to dodge the torps and groms, which means they gonna die.

And that's ignoring how frustrating this will be for actual PvP, rather than prey trying to escape the wolves.

 

[star57]

I should probably stop watching the thread grow and get some email to my friends that were thinking about buying Elite. I don't want to imagine the flak I'm likely to catch because of this. I hate to compare Frontier to BigPoint, but they sure smell similar atm. What a bummer...

Rooks o7

Exactly my thoughts. Exact same drastic lack of communication and loss of touch with the playerbase.

 

[Azreh Helas]

There really are no counters, PD? what's that going to stop? one or two salvos of packs maybe, ECM same thing and then you have to take wing fights into account. Chaffs aren't going to be useful against drag frags as one pellet is enough to apply the effect. If drags are going to disable boosting there has to be a cool down effect on them. So far nothing suggests that there will be any cool down and instead of "switching meta" all you'll see are wings of four with drag munitions in one way or another.

 

[AlduinFirst]

"if you are a competitor who love builds , it's good new for more diversity another point, that will permit to annoy full fa off cutters running away "

Really again with this irrational, delusional comments?!?!?!

U Have to understand one thing ,( well lot of things) but, all ships have minimum engine output, place where u r locked in with 0 pips to ENG and No boost, as per new "drag buff" and that minimum is different for almost all ships, depending on engineering lvl and outfitting.. But its one constant cutter is always faster then vette or conda. Also FDL is always faster and more manuverable then almost all other ships (almost)

Now u presume that conda will have drag weapons and cutter will not, so conda will boost and cutter will be locked at min eng output - WRONG
Reality is all ships will have drag weapons, IT will be forced up on all players, meaning all ships will fly locked to their minimal eng output,No Boost, and as we already coverd that above cutter will always be faster then vette or conda, and FDL will aways beat all of big 3 in speed and manuverability, they will just fly real slow ALL THE TIME ... ALL SHIPS.... ALL THE TIME ... so bind ur boost button to something like :toggle eng collors ON/OFF
Oh ye also while locked to minimal engine output there is no evasion we are all sitting ducks.. so if u in wing of 2 and im in wing of 4 guess who wins all the time .. u got it wing of 4.. where so far wing of 2 awesome PVPers can destroy wing of 4, u know SKILL ... but that will hardly be the case tomorow

 

[Sebastian Rooks]

Exactly my thoughts. Exact same drastic lack of communication and loss of touch with the playerbase.

I'm not kidding here. I've had half a dozen players that I knew from the US Server, contact me since BSGO was canned. I've been encouraging them to get Elite. I don't want them wasting their hard earned cash on another water update though.

Rooks o7

 

[Hellfire85]

I usually run a Pacifier Vulture with Incendiary/Drag effects...

I suggest that until this mess gets fixed, the PvP community should agree that drag ammo effect is on par with heat weapons, healbeams and other broken mechanics and should therefore not be used in PvP, be it for both organized and unorganized fights.

This might be the only way to keep PvP somewhat intact, altho it's already quite broken...

 

[Ziljan]

That's because you're not boosting over to evade nor building a ship strong enough to survive the 15 seconds it takes to escape. That's all on you.

In general, you don't "boost to evade" in a gankable ship. You can boost to get out of range. Maybe.

You just don't know what you are talking about, the fact that you mention formation flying and are theorising about flanking is pure evidence to that fact, stop telling people who have more hours in pvp than you have in the game that they don't know what they are talking about, you are completely off the mark in regards to ECM and PD and you clearly do not know how fights play out in this game, not one actual pvper on this thread has ever seen you in open and it really shows, add to that you want to add some backhands in your replies, you are theorising about something of which you know nothing.

What this will actually lead to is people out of necessity stacking pure MJ, Long range weapons only, most likely hitscan, missile spam from every ship and people leaving fights far earlier than they used to. Not one good change.

You don't know me, and I don't know you. So let's dial down the hysterical knee jerking and keep personal attacks aside. I get that a lot of players who enjoy the current meta see only how this will impact their style of flying their current builds, wall2wall rail/PA FDLs, but I think you're over simplifying the unforseeable consequences, eg what creative builds people will come up to counter any new meta, and how this will inevitably be re-patched/rebalanced. I suspect you're at least part right that the current FDL crowd will reflexively react to hang onto their notions of avoiding damage, and will take to kiting hitscan builds, and that's fine, but that's far from the only solution here. I think you're wrong about the level of engagement being changed for the worse. Maybe initially, until people figure out the counters and realize the benefit of getting "stuck in" with a good wing that focuses on DPS instead of CC.

 

[star57]

In general, you don't "boost to evade" in a gankable ship. You can boost to get out of range. Maybe.
You don't know me, and I don't know you. So let's dial down the hysterical knee jerking and keep personal attacks aside. I get that a lot of players who enjoy the current meta see only how this will impact their style of flying their current builds, wall2wall rail/PA FDLs, but I think you're over simplifying the unforseeable consequences, eg what creative builds people will come up to counter any new meta, and how this will inevitably be re-patched/rebalanced. I suspect you're at least part right that the current FDL crowd will reflexively react to hang onto their notions of avoiding damage, and will take to kiting hitscan builds, and that's fine, but that's far from the only solution here. I think you're wrong about the level of engagement being changed for the worse. Maybe initially, until people figure out the counters and realize the benefit of getting "stuck in" with a good wing that focuses on DPS instead of CC.

I'm not sure if you're even reading what we're saying at this point, but there are no counters, there is no MMORPG focus on crowd control or whatever you think happens in PvP, and there will be no creative builds after this drag buff, just ships equipped with drag and as many stacked MJs as possible. All this update does in terms of competitive PvP is beat it repeatedly with a belt.

 

[ryan_m]

In general, you don't "boost to evade" in a gankable ship. You can boost to get out of range. Maybe.
You don't know me, and I don't know you. So let's dial down the hysterical knee jerking and keep personal attacks aside. I get that a lot of players who enjoy the current meta see only how this will impact their style of flying their current builds, wall2wall rail/PA FDLs, but I think you're over simplifying the unforseeable consequences, eg what creative builds people will come up to counter any new meta, and how this will inevitably be re-patched/rebalanced. I suspect you're at least part right that the current FDL crowd will reflexively react to hang onto their notions of avoiding damage, and will take to kiting hitscan builds, and that's fine, but that's far from the only solution here. I think you're wrong about the level of engagement being changed for the worse. Maybe initially, until people figure out the counters and realize the benefit of getting "stuck in" with a good wing that focuses on DPS instead of CC.

You absolutely boost to evade. What are you talking about? Boosting gives you the max agility on any ship while you're doing it. In what world where you're trying to survive would you not be boosting as often as possible?

You don't know what you're talking about. Please stop pretending like you do.

 

[Morbad]

I bet most of your critical modules are armored, double braced, etc, and you run an AMFU with dual MRPs and you have several thousand hull HP. Your vette can endure more than enough time of sustained fire from ganker wings to just high wake out whenever you feel like it.

My vette isn't the only ship I trade/run missions with. I use my Courier, Kraits, and even Mamba just as often. Out in Colonia I was in an unengineered T-6 as often as not and even that T-6 would have been hard to grom bomb/torpedo.

I don't normally run shields on most of my mission runners anymore because I find silent-running, plus extra heatsinks, PDTs, and ECMs (which won't do much against sufficient seeker/packhound spam, but will absolutely help against FDS disruptors, torpedos, and hatchbreakers) are more useful at ensuring I can high-wake out, cargo intact.

Typical "decent" pilots in decent medium builds or T-9s are now facing a much greater danger from ganking, especially from wings. Groms and torps are big winners vs. a ship that can't boost, and all but a few obscure builds (obscenely fast couriers, maybe some silent running builds, etc.) are going to have a very difficult time evading the first drag shot/missile.

Assuming the cooldown is short, they will remain unable to boost, then it will be impossible to evade subsequent drag shots, which means they probably won't be able to dodge the torps and groms, which means they gonna die.

I suspect most people getting shot down in a ganker scenario after the patch would have gotten shot down before it, with a few exceptions.

Some adjustments to escape tactics may be necessary and things may get slightly more difficult...but I'm not seeing any great paradigm shift in gankiness. Lemons will be lemons and nothing can help those who insist on carrying a victim complex like a cross.

I suggest that until this mess gets fixed, the PvP community should agree that drag ammo effect is on par with heat weapons, healbeams and other broken mechanics and should therefore not be used in PvP, be it for both organized and unorganized fights.

Only way to understand the true implications, and make sure that Frontier does as well, is to leverage the tools they give us.

When FDev sees ~90% of agressors in CMDR on CMDR conflict packing drag munitions, then maybe they'll take another look at things.

 

[Ziljan]

I'm not sure if you're even reading what we're saying at this point, but there are no counters

No counters? Pure hyperbole. To Seekers? There are several counters to seekers. To Frags? Yes there are counters, even to fixed Pacs. Most definitely to gimbals and turrets. And there are counters to anyone that uses drag on frags by simply building a berzerker style ship using a higher sustained DPS frag mod and flying a ship that can still reversky and club anyone dumb enough to stay within lethal range.

Really, I don't disagree that this change is probably OP, and will need to be partially rolled back, I just don't agree that it leaves people as helpless as some folks have currently convinced themselves. It's a 5 sec debuff to agility (likely with a cooldown coming shortly after this patch drops). So sure it hurts the FDL agility based evasive meta, but that's far from the only way to play the game. And even that way of playing PVP would be far from dead in 1v1 if people took some cues from cannon aficionados.

I could go on, but it sounds like you guys have made up your minds in advance. I certainly don't expect you to change your minds over night. But mostly I suspect it won't matter because Frontier will likely scrub this from the patch notes before tomorrow becomes today.