Patch Notes Update April Update - Patch Notes

Elephant Butt Leather is a Drag Munition.. A real drag, man. It also gives me a huge advantage in PvP, so we need to fix it ASAP!
 
If he weren't trying to argue with people that actually know what they're talking about and tell them they're wrong, I'm not sure I'd have an issue at all.

TIL it is called "attacking the ignorance" of another poster if you clearly and explicitly explain the ramifications of a game mechanic change and then note that nearly all other pilots experienced with the content in question agree with you.

Silly me, I just thought it was called being correct and clearly explaining the reasons why.
 
We've watched all their streams, how could the dev team realistically be expected to have the remotest clue as to the nuances and complexities of FA Off combat? Or for that matter how this will dramatically improve ganking conditions against in-experienced players? I mean, the dev's only fly enough to very roughly test the very basics of the game, we've all known that for years. This issue and how it affects us is like speaking ancient Hebrew to someone from Billings Montana. It's up to us experienced pilots to reign in our astonished passions and disappointment, take a deep breath, count to ten (thousand) and patiently keep explaining it to them in the hopes they wake up and go "Ohhhh!" and fix this mess.
 
Look muroko, you have a point. If a player feels they're gonna die anyway this isn't going to make any difference for them. I have a few 'disposable' ships that I don't mind losing too, but your point isn't really relevant to the issue precisely because that player was going to die anyway, just like the wuss with 8x shield boosters will still have time to high wake away.

The problem is with those situations where this change can make the difference between surviving/winning and dying/losing, and it potentially makes a significant change to the meta - everyone will need to fit a small frag turret now, just as a defensive tool like point defence or heatsinks. That reduces player choice. As ryan_m wrote earlier, there is no silver lining. It won't be better for anyone regardless of playstyle.

Sometimes i literally just buy a ship to deliver items to engineers, do some passenger missions for the rewards i need, etc. and then sell it. it's usually a shieldless python with all cargo holds or passenger cabins. if someone is attacking me in that situation without ever asking for cargo drop or be any kind of political enemy to me, i just consider that toxic and unwarranted and can't consider it PvP because of the lack of reason for it. And looking at my financial situation, i can afford to not give a damn about it. Im wise enough to avoid open play if im doing anything more important than this.
 
against in-experienced players

FWIW I actually think the ramifications are larger for ganking medium to well experienced players. Inexperienced players already had no chance, you can kill them with abrasion blasters probably.

Now for ganks, especially wing ganks, there's a much greater chance of drag, then torp, then grom, then thruster/FSD/PP snipe. That is much harder to pull off against a halfway decent pilot who can boost than it will be after the patch.

Edit - for instance shieldless pythons as mentioned below. Such ships were already doomed. But a shielded python with about 1 or 2 thousand hitpoints that was largely safe before is no longer so.
 
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Sometimes i literally just buy a ship to deliver items to engineers, do some passenger missions for the rewards i need, etc. and then sell it. it's usually a shieldless python with all cargo holds or passenger cabins. if someone is attacking me in that situation without ever asking for cargo drop or be any kind of political enemy to me, i just consider that toxic and unwarranted. And looking at my financial situation, i can afford to not give a damn about it. Im wise enough to avoid open play if im doing anything more important than this.

Lol I see. A primarily solo player commenting on the PvP ramifications of an engineering change. Said player also flies incredibly vulnerable builds and considers all but a few PvP situations "toxic". Gotcha. Carry on.
 
Sometimes i literally just buy a ship to deliver items to engineers, do some passenger missions for the rewards i need, etc. and then sell it. it's usually a shieldless python with all cargo holds or passenger cabins. if someone is attacking me in that situation without ever asking for cargo drop or be any kind of political enemy to me, i just consider that toxic and unwarranted. And looking at my financial situation, i can afford to not give a damn about it. Im wise enough to avoid open play if im doing anything more important than this.

So it's not really relevant to the discussion then is it? You concede (as I do sometimes) that if you encounter a determined attacker you are going to lose the hull anyway :)

Play your own way, let them play theirs. I have a great deal of respect for the way PvPers play the game, in general they really understand how changes affect the game. I have considerably less respect for the way some of them treat the rest of the playerbase.
 
FWIW I actually think the ramifications are larger for ganking medium to well experienced players. Inexperienced players already had no chance, you can kill them with abrasion blasters probably.

Now for ganks, especially wing ganks, there's a much greater chance of drag, then torp, then grom, then thruster/FSD/PP snipe. That is much harder to pull off against a halfway decent pilot who can boost than it will be after the patch.
Yeah, great point. I'm just getting up to speed and trying to consider all of the ramifications. Only heard of the change about an hour and a half ago.
 
So it's not really relevant to the discussion then is it? You concede (as I do sometimes) that if you encounter a determined attacker you are going to lose the hull anyway :)

Play your own way, let them play theirs. I have a great deal of respect for the way PvPers play the game, in general they really understand how changes affect the game. I have considerably less respect for the way some of them treat the rest of the playerbase.

that is exactly what i said. nothing more. from my point of view (and probably many others too), a person who is not interested in unwanted PvP, because they are doing something completely different, it won't make a big difference. I never said it wont make a difference in actual PvP
 
by definition ganking is an act performed against another player(s) who has no chance to defend themselves. if someone is prepared for ganking, it stops being a ganking.
By definition, ganking is the short version of gank killing which consists of a certain number of players going against a single player and killing him in a group effort.
Adding this one for good measure:
Griefing is repeatedly getting killed by the same player. The said player will basically stalk you to kill you so you can't enjoy the game. So, if someone gets killed once in a while by different players each time, it's not griefing.
 
that is exactly what i said. nothing more. from my point of view (and probably many others too), a person who is not interested in unwanted PvP, because they are doing something completely different, it won't make a big difference. I never said it wont make a difference in actual PvP

No. You said "from the ganked person's perspective, which i have been a couple of times, it really makes no difference if you can boost or not". This implies all ganked people view PvP as a nuisance and fly paper airplane builds like you.

This is not true, there are many pilots including some posters here who are primarily or even exclusively PvE, but who fly builds capable of escaping a gank because they like to play in open and enjoy the challenge, or otherwise want to participate in Open but not just be fish in a barrel. To these pilots, it will make a big difference.

I agree, if you're flying around in a shieldless clunker, you're dead if you get interdicted by a ganker no matter what their loadout is.
 
I'm going to hold you to this.

Okay ;) Glad I added that ETA for clarity now.


By definition, ganking is the short version of gank killing which consists of a certain number of players going against a single player and killing him in a group effort.
Adding this one for good measure:
Griefing is repeatedly getting killed by the same player. The said player will basically stalk you to kill you so you can't enjoy the game. So, if someone gets killed once in a while by different players each time, it's not griefing.

You describe the derivation of the word, it can easily encompass any form of overkill. Shooting a butterfly with a Bren Gun would be overkill, it doesn't have to require a team, just more force than required to achieve the goal. I guess the one doing the ganking might favour a narrower definition, the one being ganked might see it differently. Personally I wouldn't start a fight I didn't think I could win, but I also wouldn't start a fight with a butterfly because it's not a threat to me.
 
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This is not true, there are many pilots including some posters here who are primarily or even exclusively PvE, but who fly builds capable of escaping a gank because they like to play in open and enjoy the challenge, or otherwise want to participate in Open but not just be fish in a barrel. To these pilots, it will make a big difference.

I agree, if you're flying around in a shieldless clunker, you're dead if you get interdicted by a ganker no matter what their loadout is.

I have to agree, I didn't think there were people out there making an effort to enhance their ship and play in Open just so they can run away from gankers. Good for them
 
Is it a gank if i fly iEagle frag build, and i kill Cmdr in conda ?
I did it so many times and was called names for it, even had IRL death wishes and threats, now that drag is a thing im sure it will be even ezyer to kill that conda ... Just to confirm here since u know what is a gank and what is not.

C my point is, if u did not do something in ur life, or u were just watched some1 else do it, its not appropriate to think that u know how is done, till u actually DO IT.
In current state of game is much ezyer to run away from gank then to actually kill some1, and that will be drastically changed by new "drag buff", as many of experienced players are trying to explain, even tho most of them are ones who do actual killing.

So in effect they (or we) could just lough silently, and wait for "new toys" to arrive and use them to kill even more effectively, but all of them (us) choosing to make community aware of drastic consequences that this change is bringing, while people who are on the other side of gun, all the time, dismiss all warnigns, as usual and pretend they know how things work.
This is not a first time that PVP community is trying to worn of problems and mistakes, as most of u are aware now, C&P was one of big topics where PVP community was saying in advance how propositions and implementation of current C&P will not be effective, most of PVE community did NOT want to listen and look at what is happening today. Now we all know that C&P is a joke, if PVE community did not support current C&P this would not be a case. But now days even they realize and complain how C&P is a joke.

This "drag buff" is not big as C&P, but some parallels can be drown to underline problems in community, people tend to talk about things they dont understand or use in game and that is not a good thing. Everyone is entitle to opinion but making uninformed decisions is worst thing u can do.
 
Scenario A: In a deft political move, Fdev decides to silence complaints about additional module powercreep by floating a change so spectacularly poorly balanced it makes the former look tame by comparison. The plan, from the start; to reverse the drag changes, showing they 'listen', currying favour with the community and tricking people into forgetting the not-insignificant balancing problems that were previously being discussed.

Scenario B: Nobody at Fdev has actually played the game or even understands how it is played.
 

ryan_m

Banned
Scenario A: In a deft political move, Fdev decides to silence complaints about additional module powercreep by floating a change so spectacularly poorly balanced it makes the former look tame by comparison. The plan, from the start; to reverse the drag changes, showing they 'listen', currying favour with the community and tricking people into forgetting the not-insignificant balancing problems that were previously being discussed.

Scenario B: Nobody at Fdev has actually played the game or even understands how it is played.

I know which scenario I think is most likely.
 
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