Are there animals that shouldn't ever be in game?

Cocolori

Cocolori
I have no objection to zoos in general but I did do a little bit about on animal welfare at Uni and I'm personally of the opinion that there are a few species which it is, at least currently, impossible to keep well in zoos. I thought it might be interesting to start a discussion within the new Planet Zoo community (some of you probably work with animals a lot) about whether they agree that there are some that just don't suit captive environments and whether that means they should be in game or not.

Before I mention my list of no-nos I want to say I'm agnostic about whether they should still be put into the game, after all it is a game. It might be interesting to think about how they could represent how difficult they are by making them incredibly tough to keep happy in Planet Zoo but then it might be too restrictive on creativity.

So my list is made up of animals I think of as having some combination of 3 particular traits that, in combination, make them unsuitable for captivity: large size, large range and large brains. One of the best examples is probably the Polar Bear - a smart omnivore that is really big and roams hundreds of miles in the wild. I've never seen polar bears in captivity that don't exhibit stereotypic behaviours (i've put in a link if anyone wants to find out more about them). I suspect they are just not built for the enclosed environment of a zoo.

Others on my list are: all the great whales, orcas etc. many of the bigger ocean-going turtles, albatrosses and other long-distance large birds, possibly other pelagic predator species like tuna or swordfish. Elephants may be a little dodgy as well and there are probably many others.

I know the game will include the enrichment options which is nice to see and I'm ok with it being a fantasy version of the real world but it does raise ethical issues. I doubt they are going to include marine mammals like orca in the base game and honestly I'm ok with them as an expansion later but they are going to have to be careful about making it too easy. Maybe there needs to be some way of highlighting where animals are really difficult to keep well in the zoopedia? Thoughts?

There's other issues as well that others have mentioned like zoos as mechanisms for re-release (extremely rare) versus their role as genetic biobanks and educational facilities. Another big one if they do go down the aquatic DLC route would be 'shows' and whether the animals should be taught tricks for public entertainment and / or enrichment.
 

Knighterrant

K
I’ve seen this said a million times, but I agree that dolphins and whales of any kind should not be in this game—though I believe there are still plenty of other animals that could be available for aquatic or semi-aquatic exhibits!
 

TigerRoar

TigerRoar
Wildlife biologist in training here :) While I agree that whales and dolphins should not be kept in captivity in real life (their intelligence is on par to that of human beings) in a virtual game, I'm open to it. Now before everyone jumps on me, I'm open to it with restrictions, like orca have to be given a large pool, and in doing such you sacrifice lets say 1/4 of your park. If you give them less than that, or no enrichment, they will be "rescued" from your zoo. It is virtual after all, and I know people will argue valid points about how this is suppose to be an ethical example of running a zoo, however, I have another approach, by having these "difficult" animals in your zoo, you will be able to see just how challenging (and expensive!) it is to keep these animals engaged and with enough space, therefore, it IS providing learning at the same time.
 

Knighterrant

K
TigerRoar said:
Wildlife biologist in training here :) While I agree that whales and dolphins should not be kept in captivity in real life (their intelligence is on par to that of human beings) in a virtual game, I'm open to it. Now before everyone jumps on me, I'm open to it with restrictions, like orca have to be given a large pool, and in doing such you sacrifice lets say 1/4 of your park. If you give them less than that, or no enrichment, they will be "rescued" from your zoo. It is virtual after all, and I know people will argue valid points about how this is suppose to be an ethical example of running a zoo, however, I have another approach, by having these "difficult" animals in your zoo, you will be able to see just how challenging (and expensive!) it is to keep these animals engaged and with enough space, therefore, it IS providing learning at the same time.
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As a game developer in training, I think I agree with you, you make some good points!! And from a gameplay standpoint, having these aquatic animals in-game could be both fun and a way to educate the players on them! Even simply stating the difficulties of keeping them in captivity in the zoopedia or while researching them!
 

EternalAbyss

EternalAbyss
Cocolori said:
Another big one if they do go down the aquatic DLC route would be 'shows' and whether the animals should be taught tricks for public entertainment and / or enrichment.
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At an Aquarium / Zoo i've been too, they train their dolphins and other animals as well, so they can check them daily every morning for any signs of illness and so that a stranger, such as the vet, can come take a look without them freaking out and they also trained them to stay still floating on their backs so they can take a look and/or take voluntary blood samples out of their fluke if needed but also train them to do many tricks such as the back floating (for belly rubs, pats, etc) as their enrichment (with hula hoops, buoy training sticks, etc) so they can have fun with it too but also the public can come view them daily during the summer!


They are a conservation group and love their animals. They either get their animals from other Aquariums or Zoos, rescue & rehabilitate, and also have both female and male dolphins in different areas (depending on the day I'd assume) so they can have babies born amongst the aquarium so they can have a steady population there so they won't worry about losing their beloved dolphin friends so they can keep teaching the world about conservation and these beautiful Atlantic Bottlenose Dolphins and other critters like the newest one, a younger Albino Alligator that lives in an indoor enclosure as the sun would burn her skin. She is a beauty though.
 
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Kaan

Kaan
I've said this in many places before. Maybe you've seen it. So I won't talk about the Orca. I just want Orca and his shows in the game. I'm not going to go into much detail because I've said it in many places and I've suggested ideas and stuff. :)
The simplest of these can eliminate the problem by writing to zoopedia.
 
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LN

LN
I'm already a monthly donator for the WWF, so for me it's not something that is necessary. If they do, I'm not against it and am willing to pay extra.

But if people won't mind donating, then just set up a monthly account for a reasonable amount (I do € 6,- per month.), which would be way more beneficial.
 

PyroPlaysPC

P
I totally agree, but it just seems like a nice way to put those animals in a spotlight, and maybe there are people that are skeptical about donating, but don't mind buying extra content for a game. Anyhow, all the little bits help.
 
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nightcat

nightcat
We already know that there are animals in the game, which have a hard time in zoos: Elephants, all kind of felines, bears, apes, …

So including marine mammals, polar bears (who count in some countries as marine mammals), … wouldn’t make that much of a difference in my eyes.

Instead of wondering “are they in the game?” I am more interested in “how are they portrait in the game?”
Do some animals want to roam long distance/all day to be happy?
What do the info’s about each animal tell us? Are they telling us, how big the territory of each animal in the wild would be?

To be honest, I don’t think, the game will get very deep in this, at least gameplay like. It’s supposed to be a kids game (=easy game), and most people will get upset if you have to build enclosers ten times as big as in a real zoo.
But I do have high hopes for the informational part of the game.

And – at least important for me: What we have seen so far, I am quite sure, that we can try to make better enclosure in the game than most zoos in real life can.
That's what I will be doing. And I will have fun coming up with ideas for better enclosers for this kind of animals. So, I want to have them in game, even when I'm sceptical about them in real life zoos.
 

Hunterhawks

H
i am for adding extinct animal, no for dinosaurs but for Pleistocene animals (like mammoth, dodo, smilodon, Phorusrhacos etc...) IRL it's almost possible to recreate extinct species with some sample of dna found in some preservate death body, so why not a extinct animal dlc and if you don't wan it don't buy it
 

Kaan

Kaan
nightcat said:
We already know that there are animals in the game, which have a hard time in zoos: Elephants, all kind of felines, bears, apes, …

So including marine mammals, polar bears (who count in some countries as marine mammals), … wouldn’t make that much of a difference in my eyes.

Instead of wondering “are they in the game?” I am more interested in “how are they portrait in the game?”
Do some animals want to roam long distance/all day to be happy?
What do the info’s about each animal tell us? Are they telling us, how big the territory of each animal in the wild would be?

To be honest, I don’t think, the game will get very deep in this, at least gameplay like. It’s supposed to be a kids game (=easy game), and most people will get upset if you have to build enclosers ten times as big as in a real zoo.
But I do have high hopes for the informational part of the game.

And – at least important for me: What we have seen so far, I am quite sure, that we can try to make better enclosure in the game than most zoos in real life can.
That's what I will be doing. And I will have fun coming up with ideas for better enclosers for this kind of animals. So, I want to have them in game, even when I'm sceptical about them in real life zoos.
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It's my idea, there's no need to go to such polemics. Because it's ridiculous and unnecessary.
 

Alien

Alien
Luuknoord said:
Extinct animals don't belong in a Zoo.
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I am going to disagree with you, but only for one animal. The Dodo.

ZdIryoo.png

We know it existed. We have reference images and actual stuffed birds and bones to study. And unlike the dinosaurs, which it can be said that nature wiped out, it is not to much of a stretch to say that either (for the purposes of a game) that some still survive somewhere or a 'what-if' scenario along the lines of what if we never wiped them out and actually saved a few of them?

So yes, I agree, there are animals that shouldn't be in Planet Zoo .... but the Dodo isn't one of those animals.
 

BaconTheDragon

BaconTheDragon
This has been brought up before as other have stated. But my personal opinion is this, we understand that this is a game. It is not real life. We should be able to play the game without feeling guilty of real world implications. Really, you can make the same argument for many other games. Grand Theft Auto for example, is meant to be realistic to a certain point yet the millions of people who play are not following suit and stealing cars?

Also, what makes these migratory animals more important? All animals have to give up some natural instinct when in a zoo. Its seems kind of hypocritical to say one does not belong and the others do.

At the end of the day, what I think should be in Planet Zoo is whatever makes the game more fun.
 
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