Are there animals that shouldn't ever be in game?

[Lelka]

So you would be happy if this game had dolphins and dolphin shows?

Having dolphins and orcas doesn't automatically mean there will be dolphin/orca show. We can have animals but exclude show feature from the game system I think.

Spoiler: And here is my tiny little opinion you can simply ignore

Actually, just having dolphins and orcas and no show feature can open another fascinating scenario. We get some small cetacean mammals 'rescued from marine-show-thingy'(just a plot setting BTW) and our job could be rehabilitate them and let them live happy without any need to perform on shows, or eventually free them to the wild.

 

[Aero-Bubbles]

They have already said they are striving for realism, and actual learning about wildlife and conservation, so to say that they aren’t is just ignoring the devs. Furthermore there is no need for extinct animals in this game. We already have JWE, just continue to update that. Honestly, I’d rather have more and more unique modern animals alive today, than a t-Rex that lived millions of years ago. Sorry but there are plenty of Dino games out there, and I am hoping this will not become one of them. I wouldn’t want them to waste time on something that’s not really in theme with the game. There are millions of living animals in the real world, we don’t need Dinos

 

[Alien]

They have already said they are striving for realism, and actual learning about wildlife and conservation, so to say that they aren’t is just ignoring the devs. Furthermore there is no need for extinct animals in this game. We already have JWE, just continue to update that. Honestly, I’d rather have more and more unique modern animals alive today, than a t-Rex that lived millions of years ago. Sorry but there are plenty of Dino games out there, and I am hoping this will not become one of them. I wouldn’t want them to waste time on something that’s not really in theme with the game. There are millions of living animals in the real world, we don’t need Dinos

I'll be happy with a Dodo statue .... which has been spotted in the making of Planet Zoo video.

 

[BernyMoon]

Having dolphins and orcas doesn't automatically mean there will be dolphin/orca show. We can have animals but exclude show feature from the game system I think.

Spoiler: And here is my tiny little opinion you can simply ignore

Actually, just having dolphins and orcas and no show feature can open another fascinating scenario. We get some small cetacean mammals 'rescued from marine-show-thingy'(just a plot setting BTW) and our job could be rehabilitate them and let them live happy without any need to perform on shows, or eventually free them to the wild.

Having dolphins in captivity is cruel. Yeah, this is a game and all of that but they have said multiple times that they want our animals to be happy. If they want dolphins and orcas to be happy, they should never be in Planet Zoo.
https://www.blog-les-dauphins.com/en/ten-reasons-why-dolphins-shouldnt-be-in-captivity/

 

[Lelka]

Having dolphins in captivity is cruel. Yeah, this is a game and all of that but they have said multiple times that they want our animals to be happy. If they want dolphins and orcas to be happy, they should never be in Planet Zoo.

Okay then.

 

[Whats0There]

Are Captive Dolphins 'Happy'?

Scientists working with dolphins at a marine park near Paris have attempted to measure how the animals feel about aspects of their lives in captivity In what researchers say is the first project to examine captivity

redice.tv

 

[Aero-Bubbles]

I'll be happy with a Dodo statue .... which has been spotted in the making of Planet Zoo video.

For sure nothing wrong with statues

 

[Swjosdotschka]

Dolphins and Orcas will probably, if ever implementen, in a DLC. You don't want them: Don't buy the DLC. Or just don't place them in your zoo. I really really want them in the game. This doesn't mean I support keeping them in captivity in RL, but it means I want to play with them. And I wouldn't even say that EVERY dolphin in EVERY park is unhappy in RL. It's a bit of a black and white painting for me. Plus I see there is a double-moral between "lobby animals" and those who don't have a lobby. Do you really think a giant cat that walks up and down a small path the whole day, even if it has more space, is happy? No. It shows stereotypes because it hasn't enough enrichment. Do people scream "no big cats in zoos", now? No. They sit there in awe everytime that cat walks by.

Why is it only animal cruelty if it is a dolphin? And why are some dolphins or even orcas happy enough to breed in captivity whereas other animals don't, because they don't feel comfortable enough?

To get back to the wider main topic: I don't need instinct animals in planet zoo, dinos included. But then again, when they come in a DLC, I'd either wouldn't buy that or would by it because of cool building pieces (like I did back in the day with ZT), but not place them in my zoo.

 

[Aero-Bubbles]

Dolphins and whales are said to have an intelligence on par to that of humans. They have areas of the brain even WE don’t have.

Also, they don’t breed in captivity. Females are artificially inseminated. Before Tilly died, his baby making fluid would sell for THOUSANDS

That being said, I’m okay with Orcas and dolphins being added (in a thoughtful way)

 

[sotik]

If we want to approach this from a real life moral stand point, why have any animals in captivity? There are plenty of studies and articles that show all kinds of animals suffer in captivity. Like freedom for animals that talks about how “lions have around 18,000 times less space in zoos than they would in the wild.” Just because dolphins and whales are seen as being as smart as humans, it makes it okay to cause lions to suffer because they're not as smart? Don't we want all animals to be happy? So then why put any animal in a zoo?

Basically, I am trying to say this is a logic and rabbit hole that keeps on going if you keep following it. And if we did that, then we wouldn't even have Planet Zoo. This is a game, a game where you are responsible for buying it or not. If they had whales in the game, you have the choice to not include them into your park because you see it as cruel. It's not like if you buy this game, you are forcing a zoo to go capture a whale and put it in a zoo. You can still have whales in the game, but make a moral stand by not putting them in your park. If they released a dinosaur DLC (which they most likely will) you have the choice to not buy, and not include it into the game. If you feel it is unrealistic and don't want it in your zoo, then don't put it in your zoo.

However, what I think we need to avoid, is forcing our opinions and views onto other people by telling the dev company what we 'feel' is right and wrong to include in 'their' game.

 

[Kaan]

Dolphins and Orcas will probably, if ever implementen, in a DLC. You don't want them: Don't buy the DLC. Or just don't place them in your zoo. I really really want them in the game. This doesn't mean I support keeping them in captivity in RL, but it means I want to play with them. And I wouldn't even say that EVERY dolphin in EVERY park is unhappy in RL. It's a bit of a black and white painting for me. Plus I see there is a double-moral between "lobby animals" and those who don't have a lobby. Do you really think a giant cat that walks up and down a small path the whole day, even if it has more space, is happy? No. It shows stereotypes because it hasn't enough enrichment. Do people scream "no big cats in zoos", now? No. They sit there in awe everytime that cat walks by.

Why is it only animal cruelty if it is a dolphin? And why are some dolphins or even orcas happy enough to breed in captivity whereas other animals don't, because they don't feel comfortable enough?

To get back to the wider main topic: I don't need instinct animals in planet zoo, dinos included. But then again, when they come in a DLC, I'd either wouldn't buy that or would by it because of cool building pieces (like I did back in the day with ZT), but not place them in my zoo.

If we want to approach this from a real life moral stand point, why have any animals in captivity? There are plenty of studies and articles that show all kinds of animals suffer in captivity. Like freedom for animals that talks about how “lions have around 18,000 times less space in zoos than they would in the wild.” Just because dolphins and whales are seen as being as smart as humans, it makes it okay to cause lions to suffer because they're not as smart? Don't we want all animals to be happy? So then why put any animal in a zoo?

Basically, I am trying to say this is a logic and rabbit hole that keeps on going if you keep following it. And if we did that, then we wouldn't even have Planet Zoo. This is a game, a game where you are responsible for buying it or not. If they had whales in the game, you have the choice to not include them into your park because you see it as cruel. It's not like if you buy this game, you are forcing a zoo to go capture a whale and put it in a zoo. You can still have whales in the game, but make a moral stand by not putting them in your park. If they released a dinosaur DLC (which they most likely will) you have the choice to not buy, and not include it into the game. If you feel it is unrealistic and don't want it in your zoo, then don't put it in your zoo.

However, what I think we need to avoid, is forcing our opinions and views onto other people by telling the dev company what we 'feel' is right and wrong to include in 'their' game.

You wrote my mind
You are absolutely right... I agree with you and support you to the end...
Thank you for making such a statement.

Dolphins and whales are said to have an intelligence on par to that of humans. They have areas of the brain even WE don’t have.

Also, they don’t breed in captivity. Females are artificially inseminated. Before Tilly died, his baby making fluid would sell for THOUSANDS

That being said, I’m okay with Orcas and dolphins being added (in a thoughtful way)

I disagree with that. If artificial insemination is a crime then all of these animals are in captivity, cows, sheep, horses are in captivity.

Our discussion like this leads to confusion and corruption. That's why we want those who do not want orca and dolphins to support us. If you don't want dolphins then you don't put dolphins in your park. Everyone must be free in this game! Defending that there should be no dolphins or whales in the game won't give you anything. but if you support us, at least you will make us very happy. And you contribute to the existence of dolphins and whales in the game.

 

[Okapia]

The only animals I think shouldn't be added to the game are maybe some animals that have never been successful kept in captivity (mainly thinking of aquatic species, like great white sharks and pygmy sperm whales, although I am sure there are terrestrial species that do not fare well in captivity). Even then, how hard they are to keep in captivity could be in the zoopedia and could be reflected in their care requirements.

I agree with @TigerRoar & @Lelka : Adding dolphins and smaller whale species could be a great opportunity to teach people how difficult it is to keep them happy-- how much space they require, how much enrichment they require because they are so intelligent, and how social they are. Use it as an opportunity for people to see how much better it could be in the real world. It could even be treated as a conservation program in game: you (normally?) only get injured/orphaned dolphins that cannot be released into the wild (and/or as a possible "side-quest" to release them into the wild, with a popularity boost). Honestly, that is probably how zoos in real life should be, too.

Maybe this is just me, but I think extinct animals could also work, if only as a DLC so people who would dislike them don't have to see them.
There are so many to pick from, before even talking about dinosaurs. The Pinta Island Tortoise, for example, only went extinct 7 years ago. The Pyrenean Ibex has been cloned back into existence once, if only for a few minutes. The Yangtze giant softshell turtle is functionally extinct, with three individuals left, and it will likely be completely extinct soon. I would love attention to be drawn to these animals before they are completely forgotten, so I do hope extinct animals get some future consideration.

 

[Tyrannohotep]

Wildlife biologist in training here While I agree that whales and dolphins should not be kept in captivity in real life (their intelligence is on par to that of human beings) in a virtual game, I'm open to it. Now before everyone jumps on me, I'm open to it with restrictions, like orca have to be given a large pool, and in doing such you sacrifice lets say 1/4 of your park. If you give them less than that, or no enrichment, they will be "rescued" from your zoo. It is virtual after all, and I know people will argue valid points about how this is suppose to be an ethical example of running a zoo, however, I have another approach, by having these "difficult" animals in your zoo, you will be able to see just how challenging (and expensive!) it is to keep these animals engaged and with enough space, therefore, it IS providing learning at the same time.

I remember the Marine Mania expansion pack for the first Zoo Tycoon let you put sperm whales, humpback whales, giant squid, and even great white sharks in your zoo as well as the more traditional orcas and dolphins. As much as I have fond memories of that selection, I have to wonder how taxing some of the larger whales would be on people's computers if they were put in PZ (even as a DLC). Some of those animals are even bigger than the biggest dinosaurs in JWE.

 

[Swjosdotschka]

The sperm whale was also always weird to me, considering it's size. (By the way, I'm german and just learned what "Pottwal" means in english. I am irritated...)

Honestly, I woud miss dolphins, orcas and belugas in the game, if they will not be added in a dlc. It's a game after all...
I understand that dolphins and whales should not be kept in captivity due to their need in space. But can someone explain to me what is bad about shows? I always thought they are the only way to help these intelligent animals not getting even more bored than they are already in captivity. I'm always open to overthink my position, though.

 

[Kaan]

These animals are protected there. The shows are not captivity. I don't understand why people don't want to understand.

 

[LN]

The sperm whale was also always weird to me, considering it's size. (By the way, I'm german and just learned what "Pottwal" means in english. I am irritated...)

Honestly, I woud miss dolphins, orcas and belugas in the game, if they will not be added in a dlc. It's a game after all...
I understand that dolphins and whales should not be kept in captivity due to their need in space. But can someone explain to me what is bad about shows? I always thought they are the only way to help these intelligent animals not getting even more bored than they are already in captivity. I'm always open to overthink my position, though.

It is and will always be a controversial subject.

I will comment on the shows aspect you describe.
Is learning or showing an animal tricks they hardly or never use outside of that pool good for an animal? (this applies to any animal of course, not only whales, dolphins, etc.).
I don't know. The animal should tell me, but how?

@Kaan, the animals are not free to go where they want to, so that's still captivity. But again, that counts for every animal in a Zoo.

edit: Come to think of it, that even counts for my cats & fish at home.

 

[Kaan]

So what should we do? Should they cancel the game, so what should they do?
So I don't understand
So it's ridiculous to say the word bondage everywhere. So we're talking a game over here.

 

[LN]

So what should we do? Should they cancel the game, so what should they do?
So I don't understand
So it's ridiculous to say the word bondage everywhere. So we're talking a game over here.

Nobody's talking about cancelling anything. I don't even hint to that.

My thoughts about shows and captivity. Every animal locked in a cage, pool or any other habitat is being held in captivity. You might even say my cat is held in captivity because he is not allowed to go outside (because I live on the 4th floor.)

Is it bad, no, I don't say that either.

edit: edited some lines

 

[Kaan]

No. I didn't want to answer hard. I certainly do not intend to, I just wanted to answer a little sad, but it's all because of this damn translation. We're all friends.

 

[Swjosdotschka]

Well, I have indoor cats as well. I have three, so they can interact with each other as part of their natural behaviour. I don't let them hunt, so I give them alternatives to hunting. Playing with privots, hiding treats for them around the flat etc. When I hold an animal in captivity, it's my duty to satisfy their needs as much as I can. Sometimes that includes teaching them tricks and behaviours that are just losly based on their natural behaviour.

If "it's not natural" is the only argument against shows, then, tbh. it doesn't count to me. Whales do jump in freedom and if learning tricks is something to keep their intelligent brains busy, than I see not having shows in captivity as even cruler.

However, there are some tricks that go a bit too far, for sure. Laying on land for minutes for example.