Are we avoiding the elephant in the room - wing missions.

[andrak]

The beta forum is full of long threads about engineers. Too grindy, not grindy, balanced, out of balance... chieftain blah blah..

Are we not missing the point. An engineer grind with a different face on it or a material trader with different conversion rates doesn't entice me or the people I know back into the game.

We've asked for wing missions for years and now they are in the silence here is deafening. Nailing wing missions is crucial to bringing people back to the game surely. I can't persuade people who have taken a long break from elite with "the engineer grind is different", or "now when you commit crime you get huge fines, one shotted by magic NPCs", or "the planets look slightly different".

Wing missions finally encourage small group play and spread reward across the wing. Isn't this huge? Do they work? Are they any good or is the balance right?... silence...

This is the single biggest thing for frontier to nail in my mind, but seems to be getting no air time. Thoughts?

 

[dm0815]

Multicrew was supposed to bring back players, too. The issue is that Elite's missions are soulless. Do one of each type and there isn't really a reason to do them again except for credits. Repetition kicks in fast and now you can share this feeling it with your friends, yay!

 

[Crank Larson]

So you haven't bothered trying the beta to find out?

 

[sedilbur]

Hi andrak,

I have tested wing mission with a friend ... Haulage mission was buggy. The owner of the mission can't collect commodities. So ... know bug. The payout was good for that kind of mission. (personal opinion).

The assassination mission paid less. Way more less. (In my memories). But didn't get bugged. (at least this is a good news). Despite, the wing mate drops not always in the same place as you are. (I guess this is related to wing bug and not the mission it self). The fight was fun, not easy. (I guess this is player skill depending). But a lot of fun for me and my friend.

We didn't test the other type of mission, but the beta 3 should reflect the most accurate in term of balance / (mal)function / payout.

But if they don't go (buggy), I think they are indeed a great value to bring people back.

 

[Sylveria]

Multicrew was supposed to bring back players, too. The issue is that Elite's missions are soulless. Do one of each type and there isn't really a reason to do them again except for credits. Repetition kicks in fast and now you can share this feeling it with your friends, yay!

Pretty much have to agree with this, all things considered.

Missions are nothing but various activities which are completely optional to any player. In some respects- this is a good thing, especially in terms of "freedom of choice" and so forth, but also it denies any actual "buy in" other than the CMDR creating their own reason for doing said activity. A nice expansive profession system- something CMDR's have a reason to "invest" in, would go far to expanding such activities. Most games have some sort of "class" or "profession", and it doesn't mean it has to be mandatory for everyone... hell it could be an opt-in system like PP is currently. Set goals for "leveling" a profession, give some passive bonuses for achieving such goals, etc. For those who don't wish to narrow their focus, great- don't choose a profession and you can still cherry-pick whatever you want as you want to do it.

As far as the "rewards" go- you pretty much nailed it. Credits. That's all it's really about. The only difference is "which activity you choose" for your own reasons... but ultimately it all really comes back to the credits. Sure you get the "gameplay experience" with flying a spaceship, but once it becomes a "mandatory necessity" (as in, it's not an optional part of the game), the glamour and novelty sort of wears off here. Sort of liking driving a car... some people do it to get from point A to point B- some people do it for the enjoyment of engaging with the machine (sounds strange, I know) but the entire focus of enjoyment can't be on flying the spaceship- there's got to be more to it than this.

 

[A D]

One commander who definitely gets it ....

 

[andrak]

So you haven't bothered trying the beta to find out?

Not through choice. Not able to play just now.

 

[OHMSS]

The beta forum is full of long threads about engineers. Too grindy, not grindy, balanced, out of balance... chieftain blah blah..

Are we not missing the point. An engineer grind with a different face on it or a material trader with different conversion rates doesn't entice me or the people I know back into the game.

We've asked for wing missions for years and now they are in the silence here is deafening. Nailing wing missions is crucial to bringing people back to the game surely. I can't persuade people who have taken a long break from elite with "the engineer grind is different", or "now when you commit crime you get huge fines, one shotted by magic NPCs", or "the planets look slightly different".

Wing missions finally encourage small group play and spread reward across the wing. Isn't this huge? Do they work? Are they any good or is the balance right?... silence...

This is the single biggest thing for frontier to nail in my mind, but seems to be getting no air time. Thoughts?

Every time I see your avatar on the forums I think Liam Neeson. I hope it's you. Don't tell anyone though.

 

[dm0815]

So you haven't bothered trying the beta to find out?

Those are the same kind of missions we all have done hundreds of times before. The wing mechanics should have been here from the start and are certainly nothing to get players who left this game excited about. Comparison to multicrew: It's nice, but overall just meh...

 

[GG7]

I tried out a half dozen of the Assassination Missions solo and they seemed to work as advertised. Multiple Level 4 enemy NPCs in a wing of from 4-6 ships, with the main target clearly marked.

They were a challenge to beat by myself, but I did manage to do it (6) times. Unfortunately, these don't pay any more CR or Combat points than the regular versions do, so after I tested them I checked it off my list.

No point going through all the extra work and damage for no better rewards than the standard versions. But they will probably be fun for a Wing of friends to take on together.

 

[Cosmo]

What Wing Missions and missions in general need is Variety and Entertaining Scenarios.

Lots of classic space sims have cool missions that are more than just kill or haul something.

Entertaining missions would decrease the feeling of repetitiveness and grind which demotivates people from playing.

 

[zombieapocalypse]

What Wing Missions and missions in general need is Variety and Entertaining Scenarios.

Lots of classic space sims have cool missions that are more than just kill or haul something.

Entertaining missions would decrease the feeling of repetitiveness and grind which demotivates people from playing.

Yeah, missions need greater complexity, variety and engagement, and involve visiting more interesting locations. And we need interactive and persistent or semi-persistent NPCs.

For instance, assassination and rescue missions should involve detective work and tracking targets through multiple systems - using the high wake scanner, searching wreckages or crash sites for clues, bribing or threatening NPCs, stealing data/cargo from ships, megaships and bases. Perhaps even competing with other Commanders or NPCs.

Or tourist missions that involve more than just heading out to a beacon. Maybe flying passengers through asteroid fields or canyons. Or perhaps even a SRV-style tourist bus for ground tours.

 

[IndigoWyrd]

Yeah, missions need greater complexity, variety and engagement, and involve visiting more interesting locations. And we need interactive and persistent or semi-persistent NPCs.

For instance, assassination and rescue missions should involve detective work and tracking targets through multiple systems - using the high wake scanner, searching wreckages or crash sites for clues, bribing or threatening NPCs, stealing data/cargo from ships, megaships and bases. Perhaps even competing with other Commanders or NPCs.

Or tourist missions that involve more than just heading out to a beacon. Maybe flying passengers through asteroid fields or canyons. Or perhaps even a SRV-style tourist bus for ground tours.

Mission Complexity... yep, I've a suggestion about this and how it pull it off over in the Suggestions forum. It's still on the first page, so I'd say go give it a read.

I think one of the key components of making complex missions really work is making use of Chained Missions to put a long and complex mission "On Hold" - that is, by declining a complex mission segment, a Chain Mission is then generated to resume this mission at a later time. It can certainly be done, using systems and mechanics we already have in place. The potential is there, it just needs tapped into and utilized.

 

[ElectricZ]

I honestly think the lack of multiplayer missions until now, coupled with the disconnects and instancing issues that have been around since 2014 have torpedoed Elite's reputation as a game you can play with friends. I also think wing missions are going to go the same route as Powerplay, CQC and Multicrew, with a small contingent of players who clutch on to the promise that the game mode promotes, but the community has a whole loses patience with it because of the issues and stops playing, and when people stop playing the few who want to try it can't find players, culminating in the devs saying "We'll support it if people play it" which then results in the mode dying on the vine.

Most of the posts I've seen involving wing missions are from solo players asking why the mode exists. Is anyone testing them in a wing?

I am. For me, they're not perfect, but they're a huge improvement over the co-op play we've got now (which is nonexistant outside of RES/CZ farming) but boy does it have problems. Just like CQC and Multicrew, there are instancing problems. Dropping in on an assassination target can work perfectly, or it can take two or three attempts to get into the same instance. So the fight might be won or lost by the time all the wing gets there. The trading wing missions are a good idea, basically creating a one-day CG for players to complete, but again it has issues with how they are shared which are bound to lead to abuse or result in huge fines/penalties if the players drop out and can't reconnect.

I really wonder how big the Elite: Dangerous co-op mutiplayer community can be these days. It's got great potential but it's a punishing experience for people who just want to work as a team. But wing missions, with the beta ending after a week are in a half-implemented state, just like PP, CQC and MC were... and look what's been done with them.

I'll be playing the hell out of them the best I can with the one CMDR I know who's still into co-op, but for dedicated co-op in the game as a whole, I wonder if it's too little, too late.

 

[Viscera]

Question from someone who does not know: can a ship with a multicrew, be part of a wing mission? Or are they stand alone things?

 

[insanephoton]

The haulage and 'source and return' missions worked fine. The bug with the haulage missions was fixed in Beta 2. The 'source and return' ones had a decent pay out but the straight haulage ones didn't seem to (though maybe things would improve if you were allied to the mission giving faction). However there was absolutely no requirement to wing up to complete the mission. They're quite nice for owners of the bigger ships and potentially a way to give a helping hand to a new starter. As such ,I wouldn't be surprised to see the usual suspects complaining that it's an exploit.

 

[andrak]

Every time I see your avatar on the forums I think Liam Neeson. I hope it's you. Don't tell anyone though.

That's great. It's meant to be! I put this image up in the thread showing our avatars when we first got holo me.

 

[Stealthie]

Thoughts?

1) Wing missions will occupy a place alongside Multicrew and PowerPlay in terms of interest.
2) If wing missions can be completed alone they might make for novel little "Mini-CGs" for a player so inclined.
3) Is there any beer in the fridge?

 

[Deleted member 115407]

Hi andrak,

I have tested wing mission with a friend ... Haulage mission was buggy. The owner of the mission can't collect commodities. So ... know bug. The payout was good for that kind of mission. (personal opinion).

Wing haulage is fixed. The owner can now collect and deliver normally.

 

[Mrat13]

Hi andrak,

I have tested wing mission with a friend ... Haulage mission was buggy. The owner of the mission can't collect commodities. So ... know bug. The payout was good for that kind of mission. (personal opinion).

The assassination mission paid less. Way more less. (In my memories). But didn't get bugged. (at least this is a good news). Despite, the wing mate drops not always in the same place as you are. (I guess this is related to wing bug and not the mission it self). The fight was fun, not easy. (I guess this is player skill depending). But a lot of fun for me and my friend.

We didn't test the other type of mission, but the beta 3 should reflect the most accurate in term of balance / (mal)function / payout.

But if they don't go (buggy), I think they are indeed a great value to bring people back.

How hard are the cargo missions? Do the enemies do much damage, or is it quite easy to run away, even in a type 9?

I'd like to know what ship to bring to the job.