ARX Ship Early Access Update

I see this argument brought forward a lot. It's a massive, massive IF - none of us know how Frontier allocate income from their various IPs. For all we know they might have dumped your Arx purchases straight into funding their expensive F1 licence in the past :p.
It's true in general that we don't know that (and to an extent, once the money from any game is in Frontier's bank account, £1 is £1)

On the other hand, Frontier does publish net cashflow graphs for its franchises from time to time, which show that in terms of directly-allocatable costs and income, Elite Dangerous brings in about as much total money as it costs to develop and operate. (With a marginal surplus likely not entirely covering its share of indirect overheads such as the building, admin functions, etc.)

So in an aggregate sense, essentially all of the money ED makes (and this is not true of their significantly more profitable management franchises) goes back into providing more Elite Dangerous and has done since about the start of Odyssey's development in late 2018.
(Equally, given that "only technically positive" return on investment, Frontier seem unwilling to give it extra money coming from those profitable franchises, and that's not a surprise either)
 
I doubt that all revenue is "earmarked" based on where it comes from and, thus, where that particular money has to be invested in. Revenue is revenue is revenue. It goes to fund the entirety of what the company does.

Maybe some revenue from ED goes to fund the development of the F1 game. But, conversely, maybe some revenue from the F1 game goes to fund the development of ED. It's all one big money pool.
Yes, what I'm merely pointing out is that people's belief that as long as they spend money on Arx will guarantee Elite's financial future will be secured is flawed at best, based on what I and indeed you are describing.

Although looking at the money pit that the F1 franchise has been for Frontier... that Elite received any of it is kind of doubtful, to put it politely.
 
It's true in general that we don't know that (and to an extent, once the money from any game is in Frontier's bank account, £1 is £1)

On the other hand, Frontier does publish net cashflow graphs for its franchises from time to time, which show that in terms of directly-allocatable costs and income, Elite Dangerous brings in about as much total money as it costs to develop and operate. (With a marginal surplus likely not entirely covering its share of indirect overheads such as the building, admin functions, etc.)

So in an aggregate sense, essentially all of the money ED makes (and this is not true of their significantly more profitable management franchises) goes back into providing more Elite Dangerous and has done since about the start of Odyssey's development in late 2018.
(Equally, given that "only technically positive" return on investment, Frontier seem unwilling to give it extra money coming from those profitable franchises, and that's not a surprise either)
I thought they only provided revenue graphs by franchise, which I could find on their investor section... do you have a link for the cashflow ones?

EDIT - think I may have found it... not graphs but bullet points in the same slide deck. Although it seems to focus on the current FY (2024 in the case of the file I'm looking at) would've been interesting to see an inception-to-date graph.

EDIT2 - never mind, that was for the entire portfolio not just Elite. So back to my above question please :)
 
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The cashflow ones aren't in every presentation. See page 5 of their 2014 final year one, for the most recent published: https://frontier-drupal.s3-eu-west-...ntier-FY24-Financial-Results-Presentation.pdf
Cheers. Interestingly enough neither X nor Y axis are labelled.... tsk tsk.

X axis presumably is years, and appears to be from inception... I suppose you could pro-rate the graph by their total cashflow figure but I can't be bothered.

But fair enough, Elite is profitable in cashflow terms and Arx purchases contribute to that to whatever extent, no doubt. And with the OP announcement possibly even more now :)
 
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Yes, what I'm merely pointing out is that people's belief that as long as they spend money on Arx will guarantee Elite's financial future will be secured is flawed at best, based on what I and indeed you are describing.

Although looking at the money pit that the F1 franchise has been for Frontier... that Elite received any of it is kind of doubtful, to put it politely.
What approach to keep ED's lights on - and perhaps expansion do you suggest when monetization through ships, ships kits and paint jobs is a flawed approach in your eyes? I can only think of a subscription model but would like to hear other suggestions.
 
What approach to keep ED's lights on - and perhaps expansion do you suggest when monetization through ships, ships kits and paint jobs is a flawed approach in your eyes? I can only think of a subscription model but would like to hear other suggestions.
No but to take another game and see how they have done it , in a similar situation, NMS they have gone from their odyssey type failures and have gone onto to drop more and more gameplay with no monetisation to such a degree many players are telling them to charge for stuff.
Elite whilst being a different game has gone the opposite way in many of its actions and now seems to be in the process of monetising game play loops that they have incorporated even for a short period of time .
The diferences on how the gamers in both games have been treated are quite the opposite, one bad and the other good( in my opinion, as I'm known to be slightly against Fdev 🤔, but I'm still playing the game ).
So would Fdev get money off me ? If I thought it was worth it and with the upping of costs of arx and the devaluation of the value of Arx over the years I'm personally not impressed with the what Fdev have produced in the Arx store .
I would have paid for the Python MK2 early access but have only moved over to PC from series X .
I would like to get a paintjob for my in game credit bought Mandalay but the paintjobs are meh at best and I've only got over 1000 free arx so many weeks of playing before it receives one . I have plenty of old ship paint jobs but even with EDO they aren't as good looking as horizons .
I appreciate this is only my take on this and hope it resonates with some and the others and Fdev may at least think it over . I used to spend money on frontier points every month , used to . I know that the creative team are amazing as I've seen a one off clipper dragon paint job ( and I would pay for that for my fleet) so somewhere the creativity is being stopped ?
Sorry about my response I was on a roll
 
They looked considerably worse when EDO was released, improvements to rendering have happened over the last few years, but, in the main, Legacy looks far better, even with the blandest PJs
Sadly this is the case for quite a lot of the skins still that I purchased (99% of them prior to the Odyssey release), which is the primary reason my spending stopped post Ody release. Only skins that were developed since then do seem to look better overall (such as whites appearing properly white and not just a brighter shade of grey).
 
What approach to keep ED's lights on - and perhaps expansion do you suggest when monetization through ships, ships kits and paint jobs is a flawed approach in your eyes? I can only think of a subscription model but would like to hear other suggestions.
Subscription would have had to be introduced from the start, now it's too late and would a) put many existing players off as a result of the "deal being changed" and b) not entice a lot of new players who will look at Elite as an aging, 10+ year old game with insufficient update cadence and -quality to justify a monthly fee. I hate it personally and always have, and would've basically passed on Elite altogether if that was the only way to play it, just like any other subscription funded game ever made.

What I would like is an expansion that enriches and deepens the sandbox, but the problem with that is you end up with the same problems as with Horizons and Odyssey by splitting the player base.

Ships for money (not Arx) as I described in a separate post earlier would work for me provided that the assets being sold are worth it. I did purchase the Cobra 5 because it is a genuinely new ship (both hull and cockpit) but it took me a lot of ummming and aaahing as it's too pricey imo - X4 Foundations recently added for the first time a ship-only DLC, but the ship not only comes with unique attributes (weapons, looks, and of course a detailed interior space, as well as a mini-story plot based introduction in the game) but is sold at half the price. And recycling cockpits as Frontier did for most of the Arx-ships (glad to see they didn't for the PC2, besides the Cobra) is just low effort corner cutting and shouldn't be rewarded at the price they're selling at tbh.

I would (and used to, quite extensively) spend money on cosmetics as long as they're reasonably priced, which used to be the case until Frontier jumped the marketing-shark, so on that note I'm out.

Bottom line is though - I'm really bored of Elite at this point, and new ships and repackaged variations of existing gameplay loops (PP2.0 and Colonisation) just won't cut it anymore... I want to do genuinely new things in the game (I'm open to what that could be, I'm not the creative here, Frontier is), explore new worlds, visit new locations both in space and planetside, etc. etc. I would totally pay money for that (if reasonably priced, which is unfortunately something Frontier are moving away from it seems).

Having played the game in Open for the majority of my 10 years with it, I also have to conclude that Frontier should've made it a single player game - despite having had great interactions with other players in the past, but it would've solved a lot of compromises Frontier had to make in terms of monetisation and game design.

edited for grammar & clarity
 
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What approach to keep ED's lights on - and perhaps expansion do you suggest when monetization through ships, ships kits and paint jobs is a flawed approach in your eyes? I can only think of a subscription model but would like to hear other suggestions.
No but to take another game and see how they have done it , in a similar situation, NMS they have gone from their odyssey type failures and have gone onto to drop more and more gameplay with no monetisation to such a degree many players are telling them to charge for stuff.

ED is actually pretty close to NMS in practice in terms of where it gets its money - almost entirely from new sales of the base game. ED does also have the ARX store, but it is mostly there in practice to give the people who tell companies to charge them more something to buy - it's not a major part of the game's income, and it was even less of one when it was cosmetics only.

So general expansion has to be done largely as they have been doing since Odyssey - bring in new features which keep the game talked about and attract new players. Small side features like new ships which don't cost all that much to make being funded by direct purchase is an interesting change, but wouldn't be able to fund anything larger.
 
Subscription would have had to be introduced from the start, now it's too late and would a) put many existing players off as a result of the "deal being changed" and b) not entice a lot of new players who will look at Elite as an aging,
10+ year old game with insufficient update cadence and -quality to justify a monthly fee. I hate it personally and always have, and would've basically passed on Elite altogether if that was the only way to play it, just like any other subscription funded game ever made.
agreed, now it is too late to move to a subscription model. To be honest, I would not have liked such model, either but to keep a game alive for a time span of 10+ years, a one-off payment is difficult. What I would like is an expansion that enriches and deepens the sandbox, but the problem with that is you end up with the same problems as with Horizons and Odyssey by splitting the player base.
Expansions would be my most favoured option, too. When done well (additional exploration, ship interiors), it could be without splitting the player base. Non-explorers would never miss anything which can be found somewhere outside the bubble but yes, it may have ramifications which I can't think of, now.
Ships for money (not Arx) as I described in a separate post earlier would work for me provided that the assets being sold are worth it. I did purchase the Cobra 5 because it is a genuinely new ship (both hull and cockpit) but it took me a lot of ummming and aaahing as it's too pricey imo - X4 Foundations recently added for the first time a ship-only DLC, but the ship not only comes with unique attributes (weapons, looks, and of course a detailed interior space, as well as a mini-story plot based introduction in the game) but is sold at half the price. And recycling cockpits as Frontier did for most of the Arx-ships (glad to see they didn't for the PC2, besides the Cobra) is just low effort corner cutting and shouldn't be rewarded at the price they're selling at tbh.
'Worthwhile' is a bit in the eye of the beholder. I was so eager to get the Mandalay, the T8 and the Cobra MkV and I never regretted an ARX spent on my new ships. The mistake that FDev made a couple of years ago, was to invest the margins from ED into other games which turned out as being flops. Now, they would have to reverse the approach and milk PlanCo, Jurassic Park and invest it into ED or a successor. I don't believe that this is going to happen, though.
On a side note, I want to state that many of us have invested a sizeable sum into their gaming rigs and the price of ED plus expansions is ridiculously low compared to our hardware investment and I somewhat dismiss complaints that anything in Elite is expensive.
I would (and used to, quite extensively) spend money on cosmetics as long as they're reasonably priced, which used to be the case until Frontier jumped the marketing-shark, so on that note I'm out.

Bottom line is though - I'm really bored of Elite at this point, and new ships and repackaged variations of existing gameplay loops (PP2.0 and Colonisation) just won't cut it anymore... I want to do genuinely new things in the game (I'm open to what that could be, I'm not the creative here, Frontier is), explore new worlds, visit new locations both in space and planetside, etc. etc. I would totally pay money for that (if reasonably priced, which is unfortunately something Frontier are moving away from it seems).
Agreed insofar that I am also wishing for more variety in game play. It is not that the community here hasn't suggested a lot of ideas ;) (and sites like Elite Dangereuse even create such chained game play).
Having played the game in Open for the majority of my 10 years with it, I also have to conclude that Frontier should've made it a single player game - despite having had great interactions with other players in the past, but it would've solved a lot of compromises Frontier had to make in terms of monetisation and game design.

edited for grammar & clarity
Not sure about that. I think that a lot of players like the interaction. I personally, don't and I am playing in a very small group with friends and really enjoying it. If that would be removed, I might not continue playing.

Thanks for giving me an exhaustive answer. Personally, I don't see ED and its future that negative. It just could be more on the things I am hoping for (exploration, complex game play beyond simple loops, more side stories, relics of old and long forgotten civilisations, thicker atmospheres and fluids, better /fixed team functionalities, landable fighters and many more things) but I can live with the fact that not many of my wishes will be fulfilled as long as ED's lights are kept on because there is no alternative on the market which has a similar grade of realism, size and multi player functionality.
Not to forget its lore - that makes it quite unique.

Sorry for breaking some of your quotes :)
 
Ship costs more than base game and Odyssey expansion, well... I could understand it if the game was free to play.
I'm not sure I want to spend that sum of money for a single ship, I'm not a fan of " repetitive hauling" so not having that ship in next months won't be hearbreaking, guess I'll buy PC2 and that other upcoming large ship for in game credits, and until then I will play as before and maybe it will be a good time for more diverse activities instead of as one of our forum colleagues said "hauling like a donkey", breaking away form the circle of hauling, yep have fun, enjoy the summertime cmdrs.
 
If you buy a ship with ARX, is it free to buy multiples or are they just available in every shipyard? I may have asked something similar before and simply forgot since I haven't bought an ARX ship yet.

Other than that I'm fine with the system, even if it's in an extremely grey pay to play area.
 
If you buy a ship with ARX, is it free to buy multiples or are they just available in every shipyard? I may have asked something similar before and simply forgot since I haven't bought an ARX ship yet.

Other than that I'm fine with the system, even if it's in an extremely grey pay to play area.
You'll get one to deploy instantly from any shipyard you're at and its pre-equipped according to which one you bought from the store. That particular ship has the free rebuy but only that ship, and only the equipment that came with it. That said if your fleet requires more than one, you can now buy that ship for credits at any stations that sells it. No free rebuy or anything on those ships, you just get to buy them for credits prior to other CMDRs.

One thing to note is that free rebuy ship always stays to your account. I've yet to destroy my Python MK2 but my understanding is it's a ship I will always have even if I "sell it" - it just goes back to a pre-built ship I can deploy anywhere.
 
You'll get one to deploy instantly from any shipyard you're at and its pre-equipped according to which one you bought from the store. That particular ship has the free rebuy but only that ship, and only the equipment that came with it. That said if your fleet requires more than one, you can now buy that ship for credits at any stations that sells it. No free rebuy or anything on those ships, you just get to buy them for credits prior to other CMDRs.

One thing to note is that free rebuy ship always stays to your account. I've yet to destroy my Python MK2 but my understanding is it's a ship I will always have even if I "sell it" - it just goes back to a pre-built ship I can deploy anywhere.
Oh okay. So does that mean you get free options alongside the Sidewinder, like an ARX Corsair, as well as the option of buying back a Corsair you engineered but destroyed?
 
Sadly this is the case for quite a lot of the skins still that I purchased (99% of them prior to the Odyssey release), which is the primary reason my spending stopped post Ody release. Only skins that were developed since then do seem to look better overall (such as whites appearing properly white and not just a brighter shade of grey).
One of the absolute worst examples has to be the Halloween string lights. They look absolutely horrible since Odyssey's release, not at all as advertised and you can hardly even make out that supposed to look like little Jack O'Lanterns.
 
If you buy a ship with ARX, is it free to buy multiples or are they just available in every shipyard? I may have asked something similar before and simply forgot since I haven't bought an ARX ship yet.

Other than that I'm fine with the system, even if it's in an extremely grey pay to play area.
You can only deploy one example of a ship you buy for Arx at a time. You can deploy that ship at any shipyard where you are present or at your own FC even if it doesn’t have a shipyard module.

Any module included with the Arx bought ship has to stay with the ship or be sold/deleted they cannot be stored or transferred to another ship, the modules can be engineered but that doesn’t change their transferability.

If the ship gets destroyed it can be rebought in the usual way, the cost will be based on any new modules added. If you don’t rebuy the ship or sell it you can deploy it at any shipyard as above where it will be as originally purchased for Arx.

Buying the ship for Arx allows you to buy further examples in game for credits while playing in Odyssey these ships will be treated just like any other ship bought in the game.
 
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