Atmosphere, hard or easy mode ?

[Noctover]

Well lets break it down based on past trends and current gameplay.

What are the risks currently in the game?

Interdictions? Can avoid them by falling asleep.
Travelling through Anarchy systems? Same as high sec, you prob wouldn't even notice.
Combat? Easy, and if somehow its not easy; its easy to run.
Docking big ships? Harder the first time, easy for the rest of your life.
Thargoids? Not sure yet but likely to be opt in optional combat only.
High G worlds? Probably the biggest challenge but even then if you stop 1k above the surface and just slowly down-thrust you can't go wrong.

Given this, would i like atmospheric worlds to be hard? Yes defo. Will they be? Seriously doubt it.

 

[777Driver]

There could be other factors... Like certain atmospheric conditions prevent shields working, or that thruster management is needed so as not to ignite the atmosphere behind/around you... But aerodynamics is not going to be much of a problem other than heat. Thrusters provide all our lift already.

Now a potentially explosive atmosphere that comprises shields could be tricky.

Pretty much all there is to it, the devs gave our ships infinite thrust, therefore negating the need for our ships to generate lift or have any issues with drag. TAT/SAT is also pretty irrelevant since we scoop from stars and have the ability to happily land on planets like Betelgeuse 2.

Am all for the devs making atmospheric entry challenging, however it will make no sense considering our ships current capabilities. At the very least we should have a rough ride in turbulent atmospheres, plus the added challenge of insanely high winds/extreme storms/Rain/Hail, dealing with low visibility on some approaches... Actual flight itself should be a non issue unless they change how thrusters currently work.

Without a doubt we'll get a pretty light show around the canopy on the ride in.

Edit - It should be added that Michael Brooks once stated that our ships will be able to provide a certain amount of lift (lifting body) Can't see how that would make any difference except allowing the thrusters to run slightly cooler, and the ability for limited glide for certain ships with idle thrust.

 

[ArchEmperor]

Some very active atmospheres will cause our ships to malfunction and we will crash into the moist dark swamps below and fight our ways through thousands of miles of varying landscapes and indigenous terrifying lifeforms until we reach the outpost where we can send a distress signal from. Then our friends can come try pick us up, but they too crash and now we are four. So we rebuild the outpost as good as we can for the night to come with unspoken horrors awaiting us.
One of us tries to contact Frontier Development for a refund and a quick teleport out of the situation, but the electrostatic storms are preventing any communication to the outside. Now we are beginning to worry for real, .... because winter is coming... and we are on a wintery planet.

 

[VR Mr Teatime]

Pretty much all there is to it, the devs gave our ships infinite thrust, therefore negating the need for our ships to generate lift or have any issues with drag. TAT/SAT is also pretty irrelevant since we scoop from stars and have the ability to happily land on planets like Betelgeuse 2.

Am all for the devs making atmospheric entry challenging, however it will make no sense considering our ships current capabilities. At the very least we should have a rough ride in turbulent atmospheres, plus the added challenge of insanely high winds/extreme storms/Rain/Hail, dealing with low visibility on some approaches... Actual flight itself should be a non issue unless they change how thrusters currently work.

Without a doubt we'll get a pretty light show around the canopy on the ride in.

Edit - It should be added that Michael Brooks once stated that our ships will be able to provide a certain amount of lift (lifting body) Can't see how that would make any difference except allowing the thrusters to run slightly cooler, and the ability for limited glide for certain ships with idle thrust.

If Michael reckons we will have lift, then surely drag must be factor (plus AOA) - I could see that being somewhat of a challenge for some ship types (pun intended) in that case. Can't you hear the wailing of Type 6, 7 & 9 pilots already? Attitude will play a part I would expect also - you already get altitude drops even on fairly low G worlds from doing a knife edge pass, due to the lateral thrusters not being as strong as the vertical. So a lot of these effects will have an adverse affect on flight performance and atmospheric worlds will generally be larger and higher G than the "airless" world we can reach now.

In fact atmospheric density could very well be a great limiter on what we can do once we are no longer swimming in the standard temp/pressure/altitude gradient we are used to on earth (chemical composition also).

Personally I'm hoping the uninitiated earth-centric pilots are like a storm of lawn darts and forum whining about it be damned. A thought pops into my mind that before attempting an atmospheric landing it might be an idea to deploy probes or scanners to find out if entering at hypersonic speeds will result in a gentle heating or the equivalent of hitting an acidic brick wall

 

[777Driver]

If Michael reckons we will have lift, then surely drag must be factor (plus AOA)

Well he said ships will generate a small amount of lift from the hull (obviously dependant on speed). Honestly cant see what difference it will make considering the infinite thrust we currently have at our fingertips. Drag will only play a factor when thrust is not being applied.

It is a bit of a shame how they implemented the engines in FD. We have infinite thrust combined with the ability to burn the same amount of fuel regardless of thrust output. Doesn't matter if you are flying an IEagle or a fully laden T9, as long those thrusters are running, drag/lift, angle of attack will be a non issue.

 

[askavir]

I would love that the atmospheric / weather conditions to have at least some noticeable effect on the flight, like gravity already has on planets. I also hope it blends naturallly with the flight, and they don't do some kind of "entry minigame".

 

[popuptoaster]

A brick will generate lift if it's at the right angle with a huge amount of thrust on the back of it, I wouldn't get excited about the ships with "wings" flying better than those that don't just because lift has been mentioned.

 

[Bunkerkind Anni]

atmosphere doesnt generate any more down force on the ships
so if they have been able to launch on planets without atmosphere and 3G gravity, then they will be able to do the same one those with atmoshpere.
drag only matter if you have to rely on velocity,
but after 2km ascending, we will activate the FSD drive anyway.

same with descent - currently we do that in that half-FSD, half normal space. named "glide"
i doubt it will be much different. maybe with abit more plasma around..

 

[popuptoaster]

I am kind of hoping that the more aerodynamic ships will fly better in atmosphere than the obviously squared off ones with no control surfaces, I don't think FD will make the take off and landings difficult it would upset to many people.

Actually flying around or dogfighting in atmosphere would be a different thing though, ships with wings should perform better given that they have the same thrusters as those that don't so they have extra "bite", the downside of that is that they probably wont like going backwards or sideways at speed compared to something like a type 6 or type 9 that probably wont care which way it's pointing.

 

[Tarman]

Some very active atmospheres will cause our ships to malfunction and we will crash into the moist dark swamps below and fight our ways through thousands of miles of varying landscapes and indigenous terrifying lifeforms until we reach the outpost where we can send a distress signal from. Then our friends can come try pick us up, but they too crash and now we are four. So we rebuild the outpost as good as we can for the night to come with unspoken horrors awaiting us.
One of us tries to contact Frontier Development for a refund and a quick teleport out of the situation, but the electrostatic storms are preventing any communication to the outside. Now we are beginning to worry for real, .... because winter is coming... and we are on a wintery planet.

If I crash into a swamp like that Ima learn to use magic from a puppet.

 

[Pville_Piper]

I see all this talk about lightning but the fact of the matter is modern aircraft almost routinely take lightning hits with no ill effects so why should it bother our ships.

As others have said, we land on high g worlds and fuel from stars so heat isn't an issue and the ships have plenty thrust to handle the lack of aerodynamics.

Of course, we build heat maneuvering on airless moons for some inexplicable reason so why wouldn't we burn up in the atmosphere?


That being said, planets like Jupiter with extremely high winds should be challenging.

Quite frankly I want to fly space ships not dry dock them everytime I enter the atmosphere.

 

[Remus]

Well lets break it down based on past trends and current gameplay.

What are the risks currently in the game?

Interdictions? Can avoid them by falling asleep. ( sorry but not true )
Travelling through Anarchy systems? Same as high sec, you prob wouldn't even notice.( again not true )
Combat? Easy, and if somehow its not easy; its easy to run. ( your opinion )
Docking big ships? Harder the first time, easy for the rest of your life. ( there are people who never manage to dock properly and rely on autopilot, should they stop playing ? )
Thargoids? Not sure yet but likely to be opt in optional combat only. ( they will be optional, not everyone is interested in being under constant alien threat. )
High G worlds? Probably the biggest challenge but even then if you stop 1k above the surface and just slowly down-thrust you can't go wrong.

Given this, would i like atmospheric worlds to be hard? Yes defo. Will they be? Seriously doubt it.(have some faith, it might not be what you want, but it will be what the game needs. )

My answer in red

 

[Bunkerkind Anni]

interdictions are easy
last stream i saw malic standing up getting his whiteboard,
meanwhile his ship (FDL) got half throug an interdiction.

 

[Noctover]

My answer in red

Well with all "not true" arguments i guess you got me...

Interdictions, falling asleep is obviously an exaggeration of how easy they are to avoid which i haven't met anyone yet who disagrees.
Anarchy systems, I'm afraid it is true; half the time you can enter an anarchy and not even realise it.
Combat, yes my opinion but i am by no means a vet ED player, i barely even play regularly, if i can do it anyone can.
Docking, yeah, i don't get that...Once you have gotten out once its easy to remember how to exit. Anaconda; high as you can, whats hard about that? But yes there is a docking computer or something called "practice" for those who can't.

As for the last one, Imho, the game NEEDS some actual danger and a challenge. Id be curious to know which part of the game you believe are currently challenging.

 

[Spacecat]

Or would it rather be just non existent, just like now with barren worlds, point your nose down and mind the gravity ?

This, most likely, with clouds, and maybe a glowy effect.

 

[Siobhan]

but after 2km ascending, we will activate the FSD drive anyway.

Are we assuming that will still be the case with atmosphere.

 

[VR Mr Teatime]

This, most likely, with clouds, and maybe a glowy effect.

Clouds might be most deadly considering I think the ground radar only works when you have your gear down?

 

[777Driver]

Clouds might be most deadly considering I think the ground radar only works when you have your gear down?

Devs will need to install some form of EGPWS as standard. Unless
they plan to let us fly around blind.

 

[Bunkerkind Anni]

Are we assuming that will still be the case with atmosphere.

i would like to see alternatives,
but for gameplay reasons, i think it will be the case.
they may prevent hyperjumps directely from the surface, but low-wake will be most likely possible

Devs will need to install some form of EGPWS as standard. Unless
they plan to let us fly around blind.

look, they didn't wanted us to drive around blind on the dark side of planets, and see what we got

 

[shreddog]

look, they didn't wanted us to drive around blind on the dark side of planets, and see what we got

Ugh, they'll probably make clouds mostly transparent, cause it's 3300 and technology you know..