'Attack of the AI' III

[kofeyh]

Yes, that's the usual use of Up.

I'm a novice - i should be seeing a range of ranks around my rank on the whole and only deadly and elites when I've really asked for trouble. About every other one is deadly. Expert is as low as they go until i lose the cargo, then I rarely see Expert.

Is the cargo part of a mission. If so, what is the rank of those missions? You can now select up to elite in any line of mission types, regardless of your rank. This will spawn the requisite level ships. In the rush to make credits, commanders are often ignoring the risk clearly presented in the mission, or its rank.

Fly safe.

 

[frostypaw]

Is the cargo part of a mission. If so, what is the rank of those missions? You can now select up to elite in any line of mission types, regardless of your rank. This will spawn the requisite level ships. In the rush to make credits, commanders are often ignoring the risk clearly presented in the mission, or its rank.

Fly safe.

Yeah I know - and nope, actually the time I did have mission cargo I didn't see anyone. These modular terminals are apparently like gold dust (at 637Cr a unit or whatever meh) but the same happened with other dumb cargo - it seems it's just "anything".

I'd actually understand and it'd make sense if you ended up being pursued after docking somewhere dodgy with a Big Haul, but ain't working like that.

 

[relayer]

it's not assets.... I feel like I've said this enough times but once more - i have a tenth of your funds ziljan and am just flying around an asp and mostly only get top ranks attacking me constantly if i carry any cargo.

It was amusing until the pattern became so clear. No cargo, no trouble - cargo, 90% Expert and up mostly up.

OK, hadn't seen you say that before. Anyone else have high assets/low combat rank & getting these issues?

 

[Codger]

So today was suddenly different than every other for me since 2.1. I was doing my same trading run today, in the same ship, between the same 2 high security systems, no missions, no powerplay, no bounties.

All week as I've been doing this I've been interdicted an average of 2 out of every 3 trips, by Master or higher NPCs, with the majority being Deadly. When I'm trading I don't take chances so I've just been running from them, successfully.

Now today, without any change on my part, I was interdicted just once during my trading runs, by a wing of 3 eagles, one Novice, 2 Mostly Harmless. I was in my Python like usual. I was actually able to kill the 3 eagles and the system security showed up to help about half way through. It was like night and day from the last week.

So this just lends more credence to the idea that the whole thing is utterly random.

 

[BIZZNAWICH]

I still run into Imperial Clippers that ram and ram and..... I destroyed 2 by ducking and firing, this after update to .02, good thing I was in my tanked FAS.....oh and it was AI operating both ships; at least they were NPC's.

BIZZ

 

[Marc_Hicks]

After nearly 1 week into patch 2.1.02, these are my personal experiences.

1. I am currently Harmless, & all Interdictions/random encounters (USS's) have involved nothing higher than an Expert NPC.....with the vast bulk being Mostly Harmless to Novice.

2. In the last 6 days, I've only been interdicted about 2 or 3 times......with all of these interdictions being in low sec or anarchy systems. Cargo or no cargo made no difference at all.

3. Of the 3 interdictions I have faced, only 1 has been successful!

4. The NPC's I have faced have been a decent challenge, but not a massive threat. With that in mind, I think a very, very modest buff to the mid-rank NPC's might be worth considering....though I believe that MoM is planning to make their tactics more varied, which will be nice.

To those who are still saying the AI is "too hard", I won't say "git gud" (unless you specifically want to do combat, in which case its a fair point to make......either that or change ships/targets accordingly), but I will ask people to read all of the very helpful posts, and watch all the helpful videos, on how to best survive an interdiction.....even in the least combat oriented vehicles. Vindicator Jones has done a fantastic video, which I highly recommend you watch!

[video=youtube;woy8nmaVuVg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=woy8nmaVuVg[/video]

 

[CMDR Redcrest]

I have noticed NPC's have seemingly limitless missiles. Only ships interdictors fly are FDL, Python and Conda usually Elite rank. Still firing thermal attacks and Conda turn rates for NPC's are mental.
Interdicted Cobra MkIV's that turn like Vultures and hit like FDLs pre 2.0

 

[Wyaston Hypatia]

So I think it's becoming obvious that the current issue is the multifactorial algorithms that determine interdiction frequency and interdictor strength. The AI improvement has simply cast a spotlight on these issues and is not the problem in itself.

Now what the factors that affect these algorithms are and the cumulative affect of them is unknown to us. I suspect that there are many ratings from the three main ranks through superfaction & faction rep, cargo, engineer goods, etc to maybe even the state of your paintwork. Add to this RNG and we can get the wildly differing events seen for different players who superficial appear to be of the same level.

This means that reseting only one variable - such as combat rank - will have only a small effect on the overall outcome to the calculations. Hence the people who have reset this aren't seeing much (any) change - it's being swamped by the other factors. However those who have reset everything are seeing a normal game - as most of the factors are low.

Now I suspect that these algorithms have not really changed from 2.0 and that this is the area that FD needs to concentrate on getting the balance right. I suspect this will not be easy and they will require good quality data from us as to what we are seeing. Hyperbole and ranting will not help fix the problem. Accurate and detailed information as to what has happened to your CMDR will.

Lets help FD here to give us a game that's as balanced as possible for all players and playing styles.

p.s. I also think they need to look into the logic behind the interdictions but that's another topic.

 

[Headless Sheep]

Only 699 voters in this pole. Thats a pretty low number. FD you better come up with something quick. The sand is rushing through your fingers. I would start by cleaning these forums up a little. There seems to be a small group of people here who think they know everything there is to know and that you should conform to they're way of thinking. It would be an easy task. Just read the forums these days and you'll see right away. I remember when I used to like to come here to read. Now it's down right disgusting. I came from the battlefield forums to here and thought wow these people here are quite pleasant. Not the case anymore. I'll admit I have lashed out a few times in anger but I'm not a Vulcan.

 

[sp0q]

I like it. Yesterday I had a few missions in my Python and an NPC Fer-de-Lance decided to harass me on my way to the station. Before 2.1 I'd simply try to kill it, but now I was not quite so sure. Decided to run and make it to my target without risking the cargo.

The only issue I see is that when such NPC is spawned and player decides to ignore it, it'll interdict you 10 times before you make it to the station. I'm not sure if high-waking to another system and back could help - didn't try it.

 

[BeccaJ]

OK, this is BeccaJ a.k.a. Cybermykl in my new Sidey playing against the new AI after 2.1.02. I can tell you before I opened this second account, I sold my Python, rebought my ASP E and set off to once again find that the AI would not let me cross the great divide without at least 3-4 interdictions between systems. As an example, From Jura to HIP26900 or such, I was interdicted by a Python AI with the words, "There's that tasty cargo, I've been hearing about". Bauxite and water? LOL, but I managed to corkscrew away and highwake out back to Jura and sold my mining at a serious discount as compared to outside systems. Oh well, I am in the top 3 combat ranks so even as a miner, the NPC's have no mercy and care less about what you drop before they open fire. Heck between, "drop your cargo" and they start firing, I barely had time to look at who was hailing me. It's no fun flying as Dangerous and trying to mine or trade. I'll play as "Mostly Harmless" in my second account, this one, until Sara from AI programming makes good on her posts to fix this "AI Adaptive Programming".

 

[BeccaJ]

Great post, thanks for the vid how to.

 

[Mohenjo]

What game are you playing?!?!?!!?!?!?!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqDsRLXkm4Q&feature=youtu.be
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6YZoBY84xu0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tkN3bQ_jlrk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3QhjxpY0SCw&feature=youtu.be
FOUR interdictions...watch and then tell me you are serious

Impressive, actually. Now, try the same thing in a T6 equipped for mining. You'll have a maximum of ONE mine launcher, since you need the other hardpoint for the mining laser. Plus, you're not going to have any kind of ability to withstand the incoming damage.

It's all good if you have tens of millions of credits for a ship. Most people likely don't.

 

[Ziljan]

Impressive, actually. Now, try the same thing in a T6 equipped for mining. You'll have a maximum of ONE mine launcher, since you need the other hardpoint for the mining laser. Plus, you're not going to have any kind of ability to withstand the incoming damage.

It's all good if you have tens of millions of credits for a ship. Most people likely don't.

Mines are nice, but withstanding damage isn't a problem in a T6. I've used this build to escape even repeated low wake mass locks from elite pythons, and wings of small faster ships in Low Sec:

http://coriolis.io/outfit/type_6_tr...P427.Iw1kAziQ.Aw1kIxhBMxA=?bn=Blockade Runner

 

[Marc_Hicks]

Only 699 voters in this pole. Thats a pretty low number. FD you better come up with something quick. The sand is rushing through your fingers. I would start by cleaning these forums up a little. There seems to be a small group of people here who think they know everything there is to know and that you should conform to they're way of thinking. It would be an easy task. Just read the forums these days and you'll see right away. I remember when I used to like to come here to read. Now it's down right disgusting. I came from the battlefield forums to here and thought wow these people here are quite pleasant. Not the case anymore. I'll admit I have lashed out a few times in anger but I'm not a Vulcan.

I take the low votes as an indicator that the majority are off enjoying the game, now that the bugs have been fixed. Nearly 50% of respondants here are clearly saying that they think the AI is now "just right"....so not sure what you think FDev needs to do so urgently.

 

[Robert Maynard]

I take the low votes as an indicator that the majority are off enjoying the game, now that the bugs have been fixed. Nearly 50% of respondants here are clearly saying that they think the AI is now "just right"....so not sure what you think FDev needs to do so urgently.

15.31% have polled that it is too easy
45.25% have polled that it is just right
39.43% have polled that it is too hard

.... which tends to suggest that it is too hard as more voters polled that it is too hard than polled that it is too easy.

 

[Marc_Hicks]

15.31% have polled that it is too easy
45.25% have polled that it is just right
39.43% have polled that it is too hard

.... which tends to suggest that it is too hard as more voters polled that it is too hard than polled that it is too easy.

But that still means that less than half of those who took time to do the poll think its too hard, whereas more than half think its either just right or too easy. Like I said, the poll is also almost certainly skewed by the fact that most of the people who voted in the last poll are probably just off enjoying the game.

 

[Nicky the Hutt]

I believe the "too easy/just right/too hard" voices are only there because of the debate, not the actual game, the whole debate fuels itself on its own, it started with a few ships lost due to bug or human mistake, now it's on, but whatever we answer in any poll cannot be further away from the truth because we over-debated the issue. It generates countless threads and memes, etc. but what about the actual game?

I had 5 days off until this morning. It was Sweden's national day on Monday and I was home sick Tuesday and Wednesday. I played Elite, a lot, and I only came across two tough cookies. One deadly DBX pirate after my haul, he disappeared once I claimed the reward, one 'dangerous' Python at an USS whom I ignored the warning not to take his loot. I escaped despite slow reaction. The rest of the time, making tons of cash and reputation.

This was basically the typical amount of action I got:
[video=youtube;i7gyk0h1seQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7gyk0h1seQ[/video]

I want this debate to be over so I can easily browse this g forum again.

 

[myrr mac]

But that still means that less than half of those who took time to do the poll think its too hard, whereas more than half think its either just right or too easy. Like I said, the poll is also almost certainly skewed by the fact that most of the people who voted in the last poll are probably just off enjoying the game.

Listen; If on the off chance you are just ignorant, and not dishonest : You could indeed make the postulate that "they are just off enjoying the game", but that argument equally applies to the ones who say its just right. Why are they here on the forums? You have no reason to just assume that unless you are an idiot or dishonest.

Lots of folks who get mad at the game dont come to forums. They just leave and dont come back.
Lots of folks who love the game dont come to forums. They just play the game.

If you are going to attempt to make some kind of conclusion from statistics you have to be honest about whats valid on both sides. You also need to understand that extrapolating to a larger base is the entire point of statistics, and that it is a valid discipline if done right.

Whether or not we are working from a statistically significant base here is open to debate, I think its useful, but I m no hardcore statistician. You could dismiss the whole thing, but to paint as if "everything is fine, the stats say so", by using one-sided arguments to exclude the facts that dont support your claims is just nonsense and I see right through it.

 

[Commander Debic]

But that still means that less than half of those who took time to do the poll think its too hard, whereas more than half think its either just right or too easy. Like I said, the poll is also almost certainly skewed by the fact that most of the people who voted in the last poll are probably just off enjoying the game.

Or it means like me that a large number of forum posters have stopped playing the game until the AI is not so manic.