Avatar or no Avatar?

[Bounder]

A big no from me, ironically BECAUSE of immersion.

In Elite or Frontier:
* I am me
* My keyboard/mouse/joystick is my interface to the spaceship
* The screen is the ship's HUD and the universe.

Everything that I do in Elite & Frontier maps 1:1 with what I would be doing if I was flying the spaceship. I press a button to request permission to takeoff. I pull the trigger to shoot at a space ship. I press a button to hyperspace.

What I don't want to do is press 'w' to walk forwards. I don't want to press 'Space' to talk to someone standing in front of me, then scroll through options on a floating menu between me and them. The impact this has on immersion is significant.

The bulletin board system was a brilliant way of communicating to NPCs because it felt realistic and what I would do if I was in that situation. In fact, we're all doing it right now on this forum.

I'm with Alien on this 100%.

But in-ship, all this would be the case anyway - it's not like anyone's suggesting the main view should place the camera looking over your avatar's shoulder in 3rd person view... it's already an FPS game!

Having a body would only add to the things you could do besides flying, without detracting from any of the traditional activities.

Then there's the issue of being able to see your avatar's hands interacting with the astrogation console & joystick - when i'm playing rFactor via a gamepad, i turn on hands/arms & steering wheel so i can see what "i'm" doing in-game.. however when i'm playing via a FFB wheel i turn this off, allowing the on-screen world to merge with my desk; the game thus reaches out through the screen and my room becomes an extension of the gameworld. In a word then the decider is 'duplication' - you want to be able to see what your avatar's actions are when they're physically different from yours...

 

[nats]

A big no from me, ironically BECAUSE of immersion.

In Elite or Frontier:
* I am me
* My keyboard/mouse/joystick is my interface to the spaceship
* The screen is the ship's HUD and the universe.

Everything that I do in Elite & Frontier maps 1:1 with what I would be doing if I was flying the spaceship. I press a button to request permission to takeoff. I pull the trigger to shoot at a space ship. I press a button to hyperspace.

What I don't want to do is press 'w' to walk forwards. I don't want to press 'Space' to talk to someone standing in front of me, then scroll through options on a floating menu between me and them. The impact this has on immersion is significant.

Ah well I must have misunderstood the question then because what I was saying really is I would like to be able to walk around in FIRST PERSON not third person. I wouldnt like to see a little man walking around as me - like in Star Citizen though. That looks a bit pants. So maybe I should have answered no to the poll then? Ooops.

 

[The Space Pirate]

I'd want it in First Person as well.

 

[Steve O B Have]

I'm also a yes. It's the progressions that I've always wanted, first it was seeing the inside of space stations as you dock, then it was planet landing. Now it's getting out of your ship.

 

[DrBaggy]

I'm also a yes. It's the progressions that I've always wanted, first it was seeing the inside of space stations as you dock, then it was planet landing. Now it's getting out of your ship.

As always Steve I respect your views. I was worried it might make it less immersive when we cant get into buildings or the procedurally generated planets look unreal close-up. However, I guess there are ways round it (things fuzzy because of your spacesuit on those planets or whatever).

It's good to hear DB is planning to make the more distant planets more dangerous/worth exploring. One of the few disappointments of Elite was that all 8 universes (it was 8 wasn't it?) were pretty much the same

 

[Harwich]

Definitely want to be able to go out and walk around the space station. I don't need it to be all flashy 3D SWTOR first-person. Back around the same time Elite was first released we had Sundog, and it did it like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9MUT0gRVqW4

I want to feel like I'm more than just my ship, especially when I can buy more than one ship...

 

[Geraldine]

Hey Harwich, firstly welcome to the Frontier forum and secondly did you know Sundog has a re-make in progress? Have a look here http://www.sundogresurrectionproject.com/

 

[Warbler]

I said no and stand by that although I just had a thought...

Remember those times when you had a military delivery to Ross 154 only to find the docking bays full when you got there?

 

[Rollo]

Definately yes if it is FP. No to third person. I always wanted to do a weightless spacewalk, checking my ship with the vast black space as a backdrop.

Also dig the idea of starting without a ship. The rewarding feeling when you get one and can finally throw yourself out to the big adventure. You must put some effort to get rewarded otherwise you will lose interest quickly. Same goes for some kind of learning curve. I remember first time I played Elite 2, i ended up in the Alpha Centauri system not far from the Neptune-like gas giant Lagrange without any spare fuel too far from the space station and having not saved the game. It was great! It's those things that can make a game great in the long run.

 

[Harwich]

Hey Harwich, firstly welcome to the Frontier forum and secondly did you know Sundog has a re-make in progress? Have a look here http://www.sundogresurrectionproject.com/

Thanks for the welcome! And thanks for the heads-up there. I'll definitely keep an eye on that project.

The reason I brought up Sundog in the first place in the other thread was to illustrate how having a character avatar didn't necessarily have to go down the fully realistic 3D first-person perspective to be effective.

Also, I wanted to illustrate just how well the two games complemented each other. Sundog was extremely weak where Elite was strong: in ship-to-ship combat and trading ship cargo as a means for generating wealth. Elite was weak where Sundog was strong: in character definition and in feeling like you actually lived in a universe full of other people. I used to think, if only we could somehow take the best of both...

 

[Zzapmort]

I enjoyed Damocles and Mercenary so a similar mechanic might be possible with places on interest on the planets. Or if you die or land at a city maybe having to buy a new ship at Arthur`s D`s used ship emporium by foot.

Or maybe you could rescue downed pilots after an sos in a similar way to fractalus or find rare or obsure items hinted at on bulletin boards on the ships computer when entering a system.


Just some borrowed ideas

 

[Capt. Hook]

Leaving my ship and, for example, making my way to a bar to swap stories with like minded players or to interact face to face with a mission agent seems like an obvious way to make the game more immersive.

That said, as a long time EVE online player, I can tell you it has taken literally years to bring these avatars to life and even now their value to the game is very minor - even if they look great. Here's an example of what the competition to E.D is doing:

http://community.eveonline.com/en/incarna/article/2427/introducing-racial-captain-s-quarters

 

[Warbler]

Knight of the Old Republic has good interior/avatar interaction.

Navigation console, security terminal, medical bay, smuggling compartment, and more.

I hope we get something similar in E: D, without the instancing.

Opening the exit ramp and walking out into a starport would be ace.

 

[Winterdyne]

Indeed. Or walking onto a ship to get back to base after helping a mate out - I remember wondering why I couldn't sit and chat to people on the shuttle in SWG. Hanging around the shuttles (pre JtLS) was actually fairly social. I don't want my ship to teleport to where I am if I leave it elsewhere (though I do want a reminder of where it is, I hate forgetting where I parked).

 

[SuperG]

I am already used to it. In Egosoft Xseries 2 to albion pride.
You can go out your ship repair or move to a other ship or claim a ship.
The way I play it forcing fighter pilot to bail out. Repair and claim there fighter.
For capital its different it is abstract boarding.
So for me its big yes. Also to see your ship upclose. Espacialy your big capital ships.

Your ship isnt the avatar. The way I experience it you the player are in First person view in a vehicle. This case a space ship. Just the way you would be in a car seeing the steering wheel. Only you are fixed in cocpit first person view.
For cars and pure race game its all you need. But then there is opensandbox thing called GTA.

To me your ship isn't the avatar. But they could choose to. It would be like in Xseries where they drop cockpits. With a believable excuse that future advancement in piloting with advance space ships. You get a neural connection to your ship. Become one with te ship. So you are the ship seeing trough to it sensors, space get with that a Bit brighter with full bandwide and sensitive sensors. With that game there is also this similar debate. Lots of gamers mis cockpit view. They are modded back in.
Except for bigger then fighters the capital ship. Neural connection is optional for helm and multi sync secondairy turret control against small treats. And primary controle for heavy guns. And a slow version for the heavy maingun of dreadnaught to be able to attack bigger capitals with a heavy punch it could be the role of the helm crew. If you are the captain,normaly a specialised gunner crew controles it guns. You give tactical desision or targeting systems on bigger ship to your gunner crew. But as captian you can take some matter in to your own hands while nr1 officer take over the bridge.

So for me its a big YES but if they don't go with it, that is one bad point, but not a game killer for me.

Like GT5 vs GTA its a choice of be pure simulation game or much more.

 

[The Space Pirate]

Definately yes if it is FP. No to third person. I always wanted to do a weightless spacewalk, checking my ship with the vast black space as a backdrop.

.

And 'The Blue Danube' playing in the background of course.

Like GT5 v GTA its a choice of be pure simulation game or much more.

You can't really compare the two can you? One's a sandbox game where you have freedom to do a lot apart from drive, the other's a racing simulator.

 

[nOmArch]

I just hope if we do get avatars we have the option to turn them off.

If I can walk around a ship or planet that would be ace but if it means I have to leave my ship and walk around to find a bar/shop before I can talk or trade with people then I will find that rather tedious after the first few times compared to sitting on my ship and accessing the local planetary internet.

 

[SuperG]

You can't really compare the two can you? One's a sandbox game where you have freedom to do a lot apart from drive, the other's a racing simulator.

That's true but that not the point. Replace GT5 with
Forza Horizon vs GTA

 

[The Space Pirate]

I just hope if we do get avatars we have the option to turn them off.

If I can walk around a ship or planet that would be ace but if it means I have to leave my ship and walk around to find a bar/shop before I can talk or trade with people then I will find that rather tedious after the first few times compared to sitting on my ship and accessing the local planetary internet.

It should work the same way it does in Silent Hunter V, or Xcom Enemy Unknown. In the former, if you wish to walk around the U Boat you can, but there is also the option of hotkeys for different battlestations. In the latter, if you wish to manually zoom into the barracks/research lab/insert room here you can, but again there's easily clickable icons to take you to each room.

 

[nOmArch]

Cool way of handling things, lets hope that they give us the option in E: D.