Avoiding Group Control...

[Meritz]

'Own' it? No. Occupy it? Yes. Occupy it to the exclusion of any player not in the guild? Maybe, but not likely. But again, the very size of the galaxy makes it irrelevant if that system is being occupied or not. Even if there is this super rare commodity found there the background simulation will have one or more of the main factions moving in with all the firepower they would need to secure the system and open it up for trade.

Yes, I agree. And I meant "own it" as a gang owns a turf. Basically squatting. I don't think we'll get the kind of player-run industrial backbone you need to create player owned territorial entities we have in Eve.

And even if FD added that sort of thing in the future, the open nature of this game makes it much harder to form solid boundaries and defend territory. That's why I always advocated the removal of stargates in Eve as a method of revitalizing 0.0 gameplay.

Interestingly, I was usually shouted down. Maybe I don't know how to pick my audience.

 

[Meritz]

Meritz does write like he's citing things from the Balloon handbook, doesn't he?

Consider I actually spent most of my time in this thread calming people down and explaining how to counter large groups of players trying to murder your astronaut posterior; I think my evil bosses would be a bit miffed about that. Fortunately, I don't have any.

 

[OillyRag]

That's something else we can look forward to, manifesto from the guildie bosses about what they are going to do to us, and all those lovely little guild rule books and internal laws that always crop up. They do make for good reading though.

Someone arguing this way here and now this way is actually a boon.

Yes it is because maybe now the majority will begin to see just how damaging and corrosive guilds and corp's would be to ED.

they are not the fluffy group hug let's all be mates together entity that guildie's make them out to be.

 

[Olrik]

But I think another way of looking at this thread would be 'How can we stop monopolies that have little to no chance of being broken from without from forming?'

A pertinent question for ED developers.

Meritz

considering I actually spent most of my time in this thread calming people down and explaining ...

...How EVE works. Guilds, etc. We we've already got it.

...and explaining how to counter large groups of players trying to murder your astronaut posterior

How, exactly?

 

[Blinde]

Ho boy, name one example, just ONE, of a player who got banned from the game for killing other toons in PvP?

Because that seems to be your definition of griefing and "antisocial" behavior.

CCP have regularly temp-banned players for going to newbie systems and killing beginner characters by can baiting. I think they've even perma-banned some who didn't get the hint.

CCP recently perma-banned someone (Erotica 1) for griefing via scamming someone out of all their stuff, then promising it back to them if they abase themselves enough via Teamspeak, where it was recorded and published on YouTube. (Their defence was that being on Teamspeak meant it was out of game, but CCP didn't buy that, since they were finding their victims via Eve)

Lots of MMOs define what is and isn't legal beyond what's possible. Contracts for instance, and corp theft. Eve is unusual (and recognised as such) in that you can't petition for reimbursement due to scamming. Well, you can, but CCP won't help you.

I think arguing that MMO devs don't try to enforce anything beyond the rules is incorrect, and not matched by the facts.

 

[Blinde]

what watch?
ten watch...
oh, such much!

You will get along beautifully in America

 

[Blinde]

I played mostly as a solo explorer. Used to run with a roleplaying alliance liberating slaves from Amarr for a few years, which sums about 99% of my PvP encounters.

Ushra Khan? I used to fly with Electus Matari, killing slavers and pirates in the Republic, back in the days when a dozen battlecruisers wouldn't attract supercapital hot drops...

 

[Jorlin]

You will get along beautifully in America

hrhr...

http://youtu.be/Th0G8rkhBqg

 

[NoirWolf]

CCP have regularly temp-banned players for going to newbie systems and killing beginner characters by can baiting. I think they've even perma-banned some who didn't get the hint.

CCP recently perma-banned someone (Erotica 1) for griefing via scamming someone out of all their stuff, then promising it back to them if they abase themselves enough via Teamspeak, where it was recorded and published on YouTube. (Their defence was that being on Teamspeak meant it was out of game, but CCP didn't buy that, since they were finding their victims via Eve)

Lots of MMOs define what is and isn't legal beyond what's possible. Contracts for instance, and corp theft. Eve is unusual (and recognised as such) in that you can't petition for reimbursement due to scamming. Well, you can, but CCP won't help you.

I think arguing that MMO devs don't try to enforce anything beyond the rules is incorrect, and not matched by the facts.

Such as the witch hunt for Erotica by someone with CSM credentials. You should look at that story beyond the Fox news angle most know ( yes the dude was a griefer but the alarming bit is how they ended up banning him which is Salem-esque almost in terms of mob mentality...and btw either the victim was going through a Stockholm moment or [redacted] really got out of hand as one of the people who sided with Erotica was his victim, or so I believe, been some time since I checked ).

 

[tooterfish]

This.

Back in the day Goons were open about their attery. They were proud about being "cool bad boys", joining games by the thousands to wreck them by weight of numbers and desteuctive metagaming.

These days they are all passive aggressive sniping, and being ever so hurt over unjustified Goonfear. Oh brother. I could at least have some respect for them when they were open about being a gang of a**sholes. The current crop of whiners are just sad. Problematic and desteuctive, but not even stylish villains.

You realise this is one of the most passive aggressive, sniperish things ever posted?

Here's a list of some of the "destructive metagaming" Goons have done in relation to Elite so far:

Worked at Frontier Developments.
Used their Youtube channels to promote the game to hundreds of thousands of people.
Talked up the game on their websites.
Laughed at diehard Star Citizen fans.
Not given a crap that it isn't EvE.

Those nefarious villains, they must pay for their crimes!

Goons are already playing your precious game. They were playing it well before you were.

And so much for Goons being griefers. The only people I can see creating an unfriendly atmosphere here are the guys who point fingers at anyone who dares have a dissenting opinion ("doesn't agree, must be a Goon"... "oh you're new? give him the Voight Kampf test!").

You're not stopping Goons, because Goons are already here. You're just being randomly hostile to complete strangers on the internet, for no reason other than paranoia. This isn't your forum, you don't get to chase people away because you think they might possibly post on another website (and in 99% of cases you're dead wrong anyway).

 

[PacalB]

I played mostly as a solo explorer. Used to run with a roleplaying alliance liberating slaves from Amarr for a few years, which sums about 99% of my PvP encounters. I also did a bit of station trading, so by no means was I ever a "contender" when it comes to PvP - I prefer exploration and trading, and was never that big on the huge alliance business and pointless turf wars. Personally I find it boring if there is no lore/story reason to do that sort of stuff.

A solid, unfragmented community, however... that's something special. Few games have that.

Lore and history, interesting. Which seems to be what took you into the Masuat'aa Matari. I was one of those who had strong influences on the creation of that unit you fought within there all those years ago. The creator of that unit (Eddie Gordo) and many of the core pilots of that unit came from/or had strong links with pilots that my RP character trained. The Peoples Front of Minmatar was but one of those RP units that gave rise to what becomes the Ush'ra Khan.

These were the days before the pettiness and egotistical tomfoolery of killboards and the likes. It was a time when the EVE universe was a living breathing thing rich in story and atmosphere. Meritz, given your history there and unit you touched (I don't know how deeply), I am truly puzzled that you would be seeking to back this call for a path that will directly lead away from RP and immersion in this game? The same very thing you seem to have sort and enjoyed in EVE? I see you were with the Masuat'aa Matari for two years from 2006 before leaving for a stint in the militia. You may have know Derran who was in the ranks about your time, an RP student of mine and zealot matari fighter to the very core.

A solid, unfragmented community, however... that's something special. Few games have that.

I would let those above words echo in your mind as you think on this thread Meritz.

Those very words are what it is all about, it is this what I sort to create in EVE back in the day, it was a seed I laid that gave rise to many units such as the one you enjoyed there. It is why I care extremely little for these groups that seek to turn the ED universe into nothing less than a bland the metagame that has nothing to do with the actual story of game and all to do with their personal egos. Surely you can understand this, surely you can see this, no? I find it strange, you and I are in fact connected, connected along a fine thread that leads back years in another RP world.

I would say to you, look for better than the attery of the likes of GS and others who later brought it to EVE. Hope, strive and push FD to realise mechanics that make it better by design. It is strange, those that you seem to side with now want nothing of the past you sort there. Community? Yes they have this but it comes at a cost ... the cost of destroying the "vibe" that is the games story, atmosphere and universe. Don't defend them for attempting to do that, don't defend them for their lacklustre and debase concept of a community. Their game is built on nothing more than ego and sociopathy. Your time within the Masuat'aa Matari should have taught you this years ago in EVE.

 

[PacalB]

You're not stopping Goons, because Goons are already here. You're just being randomly hostile to complete strangers on the internet, for no reason other than your paranoia. This isn't your forum, you don't get to chase away people just because you think they might possibly post on another website (and in 99% of cases you're dead wrong anyway).

Stopping, no. Making others aware, yes.

You and them of course can play the game, yet the moment they bring their over bloated egos, narcissistic attitudes and extreme sociopathy, expect it to be challenged. Many here do not want to be forced dragged into that cesspit of a game (style?), or want that kind of crap in the "all player" game as a standard. Yes, sure they (you?) may have gotten away with it in the CCP's game, crapped all over the thing with that so called "play style" but don't expect people to be too willing to have FD accept it here.

 

[NoirWolf]

Kinda explains why the Minmatar RPers got their **** wrecked while the Amarrian side still holds on. Must also be the lack of terrorism and actual friendliness of the latter when compared to the former.

-puts a vial of Vitoc on the table- Just as a reminder of the good old days Pacal . Amarr Victor.

 

[Wescott]

Indeed.

It's one of the troubling aspects of this particular topic. On one hand people see threads like this as causing panic and scaremongering. And on the other hand not addressing the issue and leaving the community living in ignorant bliss until the **** hits the fan is probably worse.

I think the overall goal of threads like this and one of the nicer outcomes of this thread has been the 'how might they do it' and 'why that won't work'.

Education is half the battle. And at the end of the day, they're just people. And some of them are nice decent people as well.

No, not scare mongering just experienced the way they operate, most folks that are advising "beware" are drawing from experiencing this first hand, some over varying game environments and often over years, so, if you haven't that, then I am sorry but you have no clue what you're talking about. Nice folks in RL sure are just not in game they have the intellectual capability and player base to exploit any and all available weaknesses in a games mechanics, to their benefit and your loss, but then of course its after the fact.

 

[PacalB]

No, not scare mongering just experienced the way they operate, most folks that are advising "beware" are drawing from experiencing this first hand, some over varying game environments and often over years, so, if you haven't that, then I am sorry but you have no clue what you're talking about. Nice folks in RL sure are just not in game they have the intellectual capability and player base to exploit any and all available weaknesses in a games mechanics, to their benefit and your loss, but then of course its after the fact.

Jeffs batting on your side of the fence my friend, he was just making a point. Just sayin.

 

[Meritz]

Ushra Khan? I used to fly with Electus Matari, killing slavers and pirates in the Republic, back in the days when a dozen battlecruisers wouldn't attract supercapital hot drops...

Yup, I was with Masuat'aa Matari, all the way back before the Unity station egg was dropped. Those were good times, people actually didn't hotdrop titans in on T1 frigates back then... :S

 

[Wescott]

Jeffs batting on your side of the fence my friend, he was just making a point. Just sayin.

That ok m8, no worry's

I Don't expect anyone to stop GS from doing what they do best. that's gaming, if you want to play then you put up with them. but some players out there unfortunately are unaware, so this is a good enough thread for the uninitiated to become aware, not scared, but informed.

 

[PacalB]

Yup, I was with Masuat'aa Matari, all the way back before the Unity station egg was dropped. Those were good times, people actually didn't hotdrop titans in on T1 frigates back then... :S

But do you get the point I am trying to making to you Mertiz? Why back these guys in your arguments? Your past game was built on something better, something way better than what your current "friends" list is pushing for.

 

[Olrik]

You're not stopping Goons, because Goons are already here.

"Not stopping" ? what is that supposed to mean? would you like to elaborate?
EVE players are welcome, but it seems to me that EVE guilds are not welcome. (Am I wrong?...)

 

[Jorlin]

"Not stopping" ? what is that supposed to mean? would you like to elaborate?
EVE players are welcome, but it seems to me that EVE guilds are not welcome.

i would not restrict it to "EVE" guilds...