Beta 1.1 comments for non beta players

Some responses to your points above.
I'd appreciate you editing your post so that your responses are not part of the quote of what I said. It makes it look like I said things I didn't.

This is not an argument people, stop it. Just because the 80s Elite manual called the Python a freighter means absolutely nothing.



This is a strawman. Almost NO ONE is disagreeing that the Python needs nerfs, they are saying the nerfs are too much.



So FD is balancing ships around content that doesn't even have a release date? That's poor game design.



Appeal to authority, not a real argument.



VERY few. Also, not a valid argument.



Out of all your points you've yet to make a valid argument.
So the whole Elite series before this means nothing? Fine let's lets have people flying giant potatoes, after everything that went before means nothing ... right?

And your replies to my points just proves #6 "But it doesn't matter what I or anyone else says, someone will always go "Yes, but ...."
So yes, I did make a valid argument.
 
Now, I hate to start a forum debate, but allow me to say why in my opinion the python nerf is way over the top.
A disclaimer. I think the python needs a nerf, because in its current state it is hands down the best ship in the game for every purpose except trading (which it is quite good at) and exploring.

What it DOESN'T need is being cast to the sidelines, a multi role ship too bad in every area to do any of them economically.
With the nerf, the python will have less shields than the Anaconda. Ok, thats alright. However, the shield will be so drastically lowered that the Anaconda will tear through it quite easily. This alone is not too bad for the sake of balance, but herein lies the biggest issue.

The python will not be able to fly or turn much faster than the Anaconda. This means that the anaconda can effectively turret the python with little chance of failure, as the python no longer has the advantage of being able to use fixed weapons. The lowered shields will suffer hard from the Anaconda's three extra hardpoints. Also, the anaconda is a better trader than the python, in addition to now being better at combat.
Worse, the Python can no longer pirate or bounty hunt. Any lower sized ship will be able to escape from the Python very quickly with upgraded thrusters, not to mention outmaneuver it. So, the python has lost three of its abilities as a multi-role- piracy, bounty hunting, and combat. Smaller fighters can escape or tailgate the python with ease, and the Anaconda can outgun the python because now the anaconda is not that much slower or less maneuverable, and yet possesses bigger weapons, shields, and armor.

We all know that the python cannot explore, (which the anaconda can do greatly with a nearly 40LY jump range). So it is now a worse in nearly every respect anaconda.
What's the motivation to use it? Small ships can escape it as easily as they would an anaconda, and anacondas can tear it up. It is now useless for everything but trading, and a far better trading ship is only 20M more expensive, which is easy to get for anyone able to afford a python.

I hate to complain, but looking at these facts I am very sad about what is happening and I think we should let FD know that we would like the nerf reduced.
I suggest a 10% speed and agility nerf, and a 10-15% shield nerf to bring it in line with the other ships. As it stands, the post nerf python is too "balanced" to do anything at all better than any other ship can do it.
If you agree, please post here and let FD know, and if you don't, I'd like to hear your reasoning calmly and logically.


I agree, i tested it yesterday evening and today and as i said it before its too slow now. It needed a shield nerf and a agility nerf maybe not by almost 30% (more like 15-20) but it needed it. The speed nerf is way too much. I can give figures but they are the same everybody else posted. I think it lost it role as multipurpose ship. Its almost as slow as a type 7. It still has perfect weapon placement but its suffers so hard from the speed and agility nerf that its just good for defending when inderdicted not for going to have some fun to change it up bit from the endless search for any good trade-routes because thats another thing i really dont like atm. Another thing is that the heatdamage is a problem now. I know the small fighters suffers also from that but i think they went a bit too far in this aspect. Taking heatdamage in an python is pain in the a**, so u just have to use it as a stepping stone to a type 9 (which i hate and sold yesterday, damn me 9 mill lost :() or anaconda because its a pure trader now. Its not good at exploring or bountyhunting like other mp-ships. It should imo because the other multipurpose ships can do that very well. Think about the asp, the clipper or anaconda which are all superior now in its multipurpose role imo. I know the asp and the clipper are weaker (are they really now?) in a 1vs1 battle against a python IF the python gets the chance to gain straight line shots but thats not that easy anymore. It was too easy in a python prenerf, YES it was, but now its too weak. A bit of a jumprange increase would be fair if the python really stays at this stats. Just forget bountyhunting if u cant effort to lose much money. Just take a viper, cobra or asp to get the job done. The risk/ reward is waaaaaaaaaay better. I will still fly my python to the bitter end to an anaconda because i hate the t9 :D, i almost fall asleep when flying this big brick. Dont care if it can generate more money. Can it? After the balancing of the market its so frustrating to find any good traderoutes thats why i sold it for my old python (maybe a stupid idea). If i get tired searching, go for extraction sites and nav beacons to kill some :). I was always playing in open but for now i switched to my group so i can use the python for a bit of fighting. Against npcs its still great :D
The result of this nerf will be that more and more cmdrs will be flying in solo or group, not open. An thats a bad bad thing for this game. Mark my words. There will be less interacting because nobody wants to tell about his secret new traderoutes or wanna lose their python or that much money to two vipers playing hit & run.
 
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The Python was not meant to be a combat ship. The fact that people have been able to dominate in it whilst, at the same time, hauling tons of cargo or outfitting it with endless shield cells is why some are now upset. Their super ship has been brought in line to what it was always meant to be.
It's a well defended transport.

Frontier are well aware of the stats of all the current and near future ships - they no doubt have a giant matrix graph on a board somewhere to try and help them balance everything.

All the whining just sounds like children crying over a broken toy.
 
I'd appreciate you editing your post so that your responses are not part of the quote of what I said. It makes it look like I said things I didn't.


So the whole Elite series before this means nothing? Fine let's lets have people flying giant potatoes, after everything that went before means nothing ... right?

And your replies to my points just proves #6 "But it doesn't matter what I or anyone else says, someone will always go "Yes, but ...."
So yes, I did make a valid argument.

Quote:

"The vulture is going to be the dedicated heavy fighter (literally it's not going to be very good at anything else but shooting and flying) where as the Python is supposed to be more of a gun ship/heavy weapons platform."

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=102717&page=3&p=1592391#post1592391

Does it make any sense to have a 59 million credit base/ 135 million decently equipped ship that performs the same as a Viper at 140k base/5 million decently equipped fighter? Who would even fly such a ship given this scenario?

Just the cost of repair after a single interdiction in a Python outweighs any bounty, let alone the rebuy cost several orders of magnitude higher than any of the small fighters.

I.E. More Risk = More Reward. This is how it works in the current human society. So if there is no reward to flying the Python given all it's risk, there will be no person who flies the ship. Is that what you want?

Do you want every ship in the game to have the same firepower and shields? Fine, then make them all cost the same as well, it's the only logical way to do it.

I don't care about the nerfs to Python, but after flying every ship in the game except Adder for more than 12 hours, I believe you need to re-think the validity of your argument sir.
 
Quote:

"The vulture is going to be the dedicated heavy fighter (literally it's not going to be very good at anything else but shooting and flying) where as the Python is supposed to be more of a gun ship/heavy weapons platform."

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=102717&page=3&p=1592391#post1592391

Does it make any sense to have a 59 million credit base/ 135 million decently equipped ship that performs the same as a Viper at 140k base/5 million decently equipped fighter? Who would even fly such a ship given this scenario?

Just the cost of repair after a single interdiction in a Python outweighs any bounty, let alone the rebuy cost several orders of magnitude higher than any of the small fighters.

I.E. More Risk = More Reward. This is how it works in the current human society. So if there is no reward to flying the Python given all it's risk, there will be no person who flies the ship. Is that what you want?

Do you want every ship in the game to have the same firepower and shields? Fine, then make them all cost the same as well, it's the only logical way to do it.

I don't care about the nerfs to Python, but after flying every ship in the game except Adder for more than 12 hours, I believe you need to re-think the validity of your argument sir.
as I said ...
6. But it doesn't matter what I or anyone else says, someone will always go "Yes, but ....".
 
as I said ...

No. Your argument has no validity according to the devs. Your entire post needed a correction in facts. The Python was meant to be a "gun ship and heavy weapons platform" according to Mike Evans. Would you like facts or opinion?

If you are simply wanting to elicit a response to prove that someone would respond, then welcome to the forums.
 
No. Your argument has no validity according to the devs. Your entire post needed a correction in facts. The Python was meant to be a "gun ship and heavy weapons platform" according to Mike Evans. Would you like facts or opinion?

If you are simply wanting to elicit a response to prove that someone would respond, then welcome to the forums.

A gunship should be known for its firepower, not its maneuverability. So by all means let it be fierce in the weapons department, but don't let it move like a fighter. Shouldn't it be along the lines of a A10 Warthog (or an AC-130 Gunship) vs an F16?
 
Sorry if this has been covered ...

Do explorers see a list of their first discoveries or some colourcode on the galaxymap to indicate them?

I hope there's more than just a message at the time of discovery.

Don't know if this has anything to do with it. It's in the patch 2 notes.
- Implemented explored system details on the right hand side of the cartographic shop (and pop up box work)
 
A gunship should be known for its firepower, not its maneuverability. So by all means let it be fierce in the weapons department, but don't let it move like a fighter. Shouldn't it be along the lines of a A10 Warthog (or an AC-130 Gunship) vs an F16?


This.. the fact so many people are raging that their space B52 Bomber can't keep pace with actual fighters is absurd.

Of course, by their logic, a B52 is more expensive than a BF 109 or Spitfire, so it should be able to defeat them in a dogfight... with a full load of bombs/cargo. :rolleyes:

And before anyone comes in with "atmospheric flight examples don't apply" lets not forget this is an airplanes in space game, period.
 
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