Game Discussions Bethesda Softworks Starfield Space RPG

And that is what makes these worlds alive, not just some NPC standing the same place all the time with blank looking eyes.
Yes, you can go up somebody and puch them inna face, rob 'em, tie them up and feed them to the crocs. I threw annoying sherriff from a cliff into the river. Do you have any idea how long I tried to get through the city checkpoint to pay the Nomad background story a revisit and give that sherriff a feedback on his manners? I'm no western fan but that was a quite perfect setting and an impeccable world building.
 
Yes, you can go up somebody and puch them inna face, rob 'em, tie them up and feed them to the crocs. I threw annoying sherriff from a cliff into the river. Do you have any idea how long I tried to get through the city checkpoint to pay the Nomad background story a revisit and give that sherriff a feedback on his manners? I'm no western fan but that was a quite perfect setting and an impeccable world building.
yes, and I don't know why DEVS don't see this as key to any open world game they make, when the story is done, then what? and it's then all the background mechanics comes into play.
 
yes, and I don't know why DEVS don't see this as key to any open world game they make, when the story is done, then what? and it's then all the background mechanics comes into play.
I think it's not so easy. Easier is making a story and have a crowd that doesn't have synched animations. As for SF - there is no one world, so there are compromises. I probably like the coherent worlds more, but SF is space and that makes up for a lot of shortcomings for me.
 

rootsrat

Volunteer Moderator
Prior Bethesda RPGs were largely 'open world do anything you want type' games. They certainly had limitations in how the plot and NPCs could react to what was done, but most of them handled outliers much more gracefully than Starfield seems to.

I brought up Morrowind quite a ways back as an example. In Morrowind the game allowed me to attack and kill Vivec pretty early on--warning me that a critical character had been killed--and let me stumble upon a way to complete the main quest anyway. All the requisite locations and NPCs were in place from the the get go, all the items needed to destroy Dagoth Ur were still there for the taking; there were few, if any, hard prohibitions preventing me from continuing. Things were simply more difficult because I didn't have much of the information I needed and had to resort to a lot more exploration and guesswork.

Starfield doesn't have this. The main plot is on rails and had very deliberate barriers to ensure it plays out a certain way or it simply will not advance. NPCs flagged as essential are supposed to be able to be killed via any means, and if a mod or bug results in them dying, stuff just grinds to a halt. In Starfield, I came across the Masada system on my own, but couldn't start the main quest that takes place there, or access the plot critical stuff that is supposed to be there, because certain scripted events hadn't occured (and cannot occur in my broken save, even though I broke them in a way that should have prevented from even needing to occur). They want to tell a very specific story a very specific way and deviating from the narrow path we're given keeps the story from continuing.

Few games are as interactive as I'd like, or have plots that are particularly adaptive or reslilient, but there are plenty of games that handle the unexpected better than Starfield, including some of Bethesda's own.
I have a feeling they made a decision to rely on the modding community making the game what "people" want it to be in a moich bigger sense than the other games.

Almost like "let's make a foundation and let them expand on it".

Or they plan to release substantial DLC along the way.

Or both 😀
 
I saw some footage of Astarion not being as annoying as I expected. I might check it out some time.

Luckily, you don't need Astarion. I left him in camp for almost the entire campaign and I didn't miss him (or his "skills") even for a second. In D&D 5e you don't need a rouge to disarm traps or open locks anymore. Any character with a high enough dexterity can do it.

In Starfield, the characters are all "average". This means that there isn't one as cool as Karlach, but at the same time there is no one so annoying that I wanna kick him right out of the airlock and into the next sun either.
 
I have a feeling they made a decision to rely on the modding community making the game what "people" want it to be in a moich bigger sense than the other games.

Almost like "let's make a foundation and let them expand on it".

Or they plan to release substantial DLC along the way.

Or both 😀
It's no secret that game studios have been releasing bare minimums to expand on it "when sales targets are met". Like how EA sold "season passes" without telling clearly what the season pass would entail. We can't have spoilers, can we? In the end it was cosmetic crap, a game mode and a couple heroes to play with. Minimum deliveries with minimum promises. Live service / online game is just the same - baseline product with a promise to improve the game. How long did it take Bioware to take down their roadmap targets with Anthem? They sell big and empty.
SF is a good game in the base package. Lots of content already. And stellar travel is basically like NMS. If someone can tear the walls down in exploration it is essentially the same model.
 
there is no one so annoying that I wanna kick him right out of the airlock and into the next sun either.
starfield-traits-hero-worshiped-adoring-fan.jpg
 
Luckily, you don't need Astarion. I left him in camp for almost the entire campaign and I didn't miss him (or his "skills") even for a second. In D&D 5e you don't need a rouge to disarm traps or open locks anymore. Any character with a high enough dexterity can do it.

In Starfield, the characters are all "average". This means that there isn't one as cool as Karlach, but at the same time there is no one so annoying that I wanna kick him right out of the airlock and into the next sun either.
Saw something with Karlach breaking the wall and asking the player stuff directly. That was pretty good actually.
 
I started yet another new character. I just really enjoy the beginning phases of collecting and building up. I was getting bored with my high-level NG+8 character.

Anyway, when I landed on Kreet (the first planet you land on as part of the story), after killing the pirates as usual Vasco is telling me to jump to the Lodge. But I decided to stay on Kreet for a while, survey the planet to 100% and maybe run into something interesting.

I found a POI full of Spacers and spent quite some time there, whittling them down until the place was clear. I went around looting stuff and found a big cache of contraband.

Cool, I thought. I'll just pop by the Den on the way to the Lodge and sell this stuff. It'll be nice seed money for this play-thru.

Buuuut.... I forgot that at that stage of the story you are not allowed to jump anywhere but back to Jemison. So I was stuck. I could either dump the contraband, or jump anyway and take the consequences. I chose to jump :p

I wasn't entirely sure what would happen when I arrived with contraband -- maybe it would be something interesting. But all they did was fine me and take the stuff.

The survey data for Kreet was worth a good amount, though, and I had collected a lot of weapons to sell.

It was an amusing wrinkle.

So, how high would you climb looking for loot? (there was a nice weapon up there, it turned out) :)
20231017140809_1.jpg
 
I started yet another new character. I just really enjoy the beginning phases of collecting and building up. I was getting bored with my high-level NG+8 character.

Anyway, when I landed on Kreet (the first planet you land on as part of the story), after killing the pirates as usual Vasco is telling me to jump to the Lodge. But I decided to stay on Kreet for a while, survey the planet to 100% and maybe run into something interesting.

I found a POI full of Spacers and spent quite some time there, whittling them down until the place was clear. I went around looting stuff and found a big cache of contraband.

Cool, I thought. I'll just pop by the Den on the way to the Lodge and sell this stuff. It'll be nice seed money for this play-thru.

Buuuut.... I forgot that at that stage of the story you are not allowed to jump anywhere but back to Jemison. So I was stuck. I could either dump the contraband, or jump anyway and take the consequences. I chose to jump :p

I wasn't entirely sure what would happen when I arrived with contraband -- maybe it would be something interesting. But all they did was fine me and take the stuff.

The survey data for Kreet was worth a good amount, though, and I had collected a lot of weapons to sell.

It was an amusing wrinkle.

So, how high would you climb looking for loot? (there was a nice weapon up there, it turned out) :)
View attachment 370978
I climb these heights just for the looks.
 
I saw some footage of Astarion not being as annoying as I expected. I might check it out some time.

He can be annoying, but making the right choices seem to affect how annoying he is, for instance letting him become a vampire ascendant supposedly turns him into a right....well can't use the words here, but not a good person. He's reasonably well behaved in my group, he did go a bit overboard stabbing Cazador though, the first ten should have been plenty!
 
Luckily, you don't need Astarion. I left him in camp for almost the entire campaign and I didn't miss him (or his "skills") even for a second. In D&D 5e you don't need a rouge to disarm traps or open locks anymore. Any character with a high enough dexterity can do it.

I decided early on that I was going to play right through the game with the first four I got into my first party, just like the old days with my friends around the table rolling dice, my next play through will probably feature some variation, but once you have played through all the areas and sub-quests that's really all there is, trying different characters, although granted some do actually give you access to quests you won't be able to get without them in your party, but hey, that's how it goes. Now back to Starfield. If they had flyable ships from orbit to ground I would probably play it, and maybe the modders can do that, but until then for me, well, it just doesn't count!
 
I have a feeling they made a decision to rely on the modding community making the game what "people" want it to be in a moich bigger sense than the other games.

Almost like "let's make a foundation and let them expand on it".

Or they plan to release substantial DLC along the way.

Or both

This would be more justifiable if there weren't as many potential issues with the core plot missions and they had the modding tools ready to go at launch.

Luckily, you don't need Astarion. I left him in camp for almost the entire campaign and I didn't miss him (or his "skills") even for a second. In D&D 5e you don't need a rouge to disarm traps or open locks anymore. Any character with a high enough dexterity can do it.

The thief/rogue classes are one of the D&Disms that I'm least enamored with. The original game had no such class (it was just fighting-man, magic user, and priest) and settings usually rely on some fairly absurd contrivances to make them viable as a class unto themselves. Most D&D video games turn these up to 11; mechanical locks and traps everywhere, many of which cannot by bypassed by any other means (which would be utterly ridiculous in a tabletop game)...all of which seem to exist as little more than a backwards justification for a rogue-classed character. 5E did make this a bit easier, and BG3 in particular is usually careful to provide at least a couple of options, but the prevalence of traps that have little credible context is still extreme and there is still a lot of content cordoned off by locks.

Starfield and other vaguely recent Bethesda titles are even worse than most D&D cRPGs when it comes to locks.
 
This would be more justifiable if there weren't as many potential issues with the core plot missions and they had the modding tools ready to go at launch.



The thief/rogue classes are one of the D&Disms that I'm least enamored with. The original game had no such class (it was just fighting-man, magic user, and priest) and settings usually rely on some fairly absurd contrivances to make them viable as a class unto themselves. Most D&D video games turn these up to 11; mechanical locks and traps everywhere, many of which cannot by bypassed by any other means (which would be utterly ridiculous in a tabletop game)...all of which seem to exist as little more than a backwards justification for a rogue-classed character. 5E did make this a bit easier, and BG3 in particular is usually careful to provide at least a couple of options, but the prevalence of traps that have little credible context is still extreme and there is still a lot of content cordoned off by locks.

Starfield and other vaguely recent Bethesda titles are even worse than most D&D cRPGs when it comes to locks.
Not a game developer I don't know how to code however the process of building a game can't be that different from building anything else, first you need an idea, then a drawing, find someone who can execute and finally money to make it happen, now that's how I imagine it, however my follow up question would be, do these people even play games? do they really find it great to make a mechanics that is used in a game by a lot as simple as possible? we need lock picking, how do we make it interesting? 2 min later and that's what they implement in the game? also we need people to be a pirate, a bounty hunter, and then the whole game mechanics around it is just not even there? When I saw the "combat Zones" in Elite the first time I was like holy smoke I'm in Tron, teleported into a phone game?? it was so disconnected from the main game in so many ways I just didn't understand why anyone approved it? if it was used as an in game nonlethal game you play to horn your skills, sure great but as a combat zone for conquering part of a planet not so much.
 
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