News Beyond 3.0 Beta 2 - Changes to Engineers

Engines and stuff are fine but can you PLEASE stop buffing the weapons and shield upgrades?! The power creep is too damn real. The effectiveness and time-to-kill gap between stock A-rated and even minimally engineered is already ridiculous as it is. Before engineers if you wanted to compete in PVP all you needed was the money and the skill. Now there's an additional grind wall to overcome to even get to entry level, and quickly swapping around different loadouts to see what works best for you is discouraged because you have to grind the mats for all of those upgrades too.

Just admit this thing was , grow a pair and tear it down so you can build it properly from the ground up. No grandfathering godrolls or buffing new rolls to compete with them, no more bloody RNGs, no more back and forth across the galaxy just to get all your lasers the right colour. Just user-definable tweaks that give small bonuses and small drawbacks to accentuate a ship's existing strengths or mitigate its weaknesses, one or the other, not both. God, how many times do we have to say this.


"Creep" is hardly the correct word anymore... Now you can have fully MC ships for example (Cutter, Anaconda, Corvette...) with all MCs 75% OC. Kind of crazy.
 
- When pinning a blueprint, it will now pin all grades rather than just one.
- If you have a higher reputation with an Engineer, the number of rolls you need to progress through lower grades will be lower.

Well, this is good news -- especially the blueprint pinning change. I'm eager to test it later today.
 
This is basically the next big issue to solve....

Yeah, the Focused heat reduction measure is token at best. My -30% heat Focused PAs will shred anyone with no thermal reductions. +5% heat vs -30% isn't a contest. And that's not even talking about Railguns.

As I see it, there are 3 options to fix this:

1: Split Experimental effects into "Ammo effects" (old experimentals) and "Module effects" (new experimentals), and add a -40% weapon heat module experimental

2. Remove existing Thermal Load reductions on weapons when Grandfathering

3. Add a base effect of -40% Thermal Load for G1-5 Long Range and -35% thermal load for G5 Focused


Love the other changes though! Maybe drives are a little overturned, but better too strong than too weak. Esp considering Opt mass reduction will still be higher than before
 
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3. Add a base effect of -40% Thermal Load for G1-5 Long Range and -35% thermal load for G5 Focused

Which would make especially long range even more overpowered than it already is ;) I would much prefer removing the old reductions (if that is possible), as some weapons are supposed to have downsides, which they dont have anymore right now, thats whay everyone uses them...
 
Good changes overall I guess, but:

"(Max possible increase now 47%, used to be 47% with extreme luck, 43%+ considered very good)"

This is simple not true, why dont you know your own game? I dont believe 147 was possible with extreme luck before, and I have never ever heard of anyone having 143+ thrusters before. Or is this "extreme luck" something that nobody in the entire game has achieved yet? But anyway, since there are 142s with very good optimal mass, its probably better to have a few % more...

Because they're accounting for optimal mass. Currently players have 143% drives with -5% optimal mass. To beat that while offering a meaningful choice, you can either have 140% with -2.5% mass or 147% with -12.5%
 
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Which would make especially long range even more overpowered than it already is ;) I would much prefer removing the old reductions (if that is possible), as some weapons are supposed to have downsides, which they dont have anymore right now, thats whay everyone uses them...

Definitely, but it effectively already exists but behind a grindwall. I would prefer option 2 but understandably that would be a controversial move
 
These changes in particular are really helpful, thanks for listening FD :D

- When pinning a blueprint, it will now pin all grades rather than just one.
- If you have a higher reputation with an Engineer, the number of rolls you need to progress through lower grades will be lower. This means you will be able to roll the highest grade much more quickly if you have a higher reputation with an Engineer.

Now, please excuse me while I go supercharge my Courier ...
 
Quick feedback while waiting for the update to complete:

- When pinning a blueprint, it will now pin all grades rather than just one.
[up]

- If you have a higher reputation with an Engineer, the number of rolls you need to progress through lower grades will be lower. This means you will be able to roll the highest grade much more quickly if you have a higher reputation with an Engineer.
[up][up]

- We’ve made a set of initial changes to improve the blueprints you receive from engaging with Engineers. [snip]
From an explorer’s point of view, one thing that’s definitely missing from the list is a mass-reducing experimental effect for the DSS Fast Scanner modification, as I explained in a previous feedback post.
 
Greetings Commanders,

First of all we wanted to say a huge thank you to everyone who has helped us test the Beyond 3.0 beta so far. A huge number of you have jumped in to the game to test out the Chieftain, listen to GalNet Audio, and experience the other hundreds of change to the Elite Dangerous galaxy, making it our most populated beta so far.
We’ve been watching your feedback very closely, and thanks to your support we were able to make a few changes to how Engineering works that we’d like to call out specifically.

All of the below will take effect as part of beta 2 (as well as the other many changes in the full patch notes):
- When pinning a blueprint, it will now pin all grades rather than just one.
- If you have a higher reputation with an Engineer, the number of rolls you need to progress through lower grades will be lower. This means you will be able to roll the highest grade much more quickly if you have a higher reputation with an Engineer.
- We’ve made a set of initial changes to improve the blueprints you receive from engaging with Engineers. As always, your feedback is hugely appreciated, and we’d love to hear what you think about these changes relative to how they were in beta 1. Please do continue to test and give us your feedback to help make the very best possible update. See the full list of changes to the modules so far here:

Drives:
- Dirty Drives:
Speed Increase 30%->40%
(Max possible increase now 47%, used to be 47% with extreme luck, 43%+ considered very good)
- Clean Drives:
Speed Increase 18%->28%
(Max possible increase now 34.4%, used to be 33.8%)

Weapons:
- Short Range:
Damage increase 65%->75%
(Max DPS increase 67.5% in live, 70% in beta, now 80% including experimentals)
- Overcharged:
Damage increase 55%->70%
(Max DPS increase 67.5% in live, 59% in beta, now 75% including experimentals)
- Rapid Fire:
Firing Interval reduction 40%->44% (ROF increase 66%->79%)
(Max DPS increase 67.5% in live, 63% in beta, now 74.7% including experimentals)
- Efficient:
Damage increase 17%->24%
(Max DPS increase 26% in live, 20.5% in beta, now 27.7% including experimentals)
Passive power draw reduction 40%->48%
WEP draw reduction 35%->45%
- Focused:
Heat increase halved (10%->5%)

Shield Generator:
- Enhanced, Low Power:
Strength Multiplier: 10%->15%
- Reinforced:
Damage Reduction: 12%->15% (back to where it is in live), also fix a numerical error that resulted it odd results from crafting lvl 1-4 recipes

FSD:
- Increased FSD Range:
Optimised mass 50%->55%

Power Plant:
- Low Emissions:
Heat 60%->65%
- Overcharged:
Power 36%->40%
Hull Reinforcement:
- Single Resistance blueprints:
Off-type penalties reduced 12%->10%
- Heavy Duty:
Damage resistance restored from 8.5%->15%
- Lightweight:
Health Multiplier increase 18%->24%

Armour:
- Heavy Duty:
Health Multiplier increase 30%->35%

Power Distributor:
- High Frequency:
Global charge rate increase 40%->45%
- High Capacity:
Global Charge Capacity 40%->42%
- Priority X blueprints:
Increase charge rate on primary capacitor from 30%->36%
Shield Boosters:
- Heavy Duty:
Shield health increase 38%->40%
- Resistance Augmented:
Global damage resist 16%->17%
Once again, we’d love to hear your thoughts on all of the changes in beta 2 – we’ve been paying close attention to your feedback on social media, the forums, your emails and Reddit since the first beta livestream, and we’ll continue to make changes thanks to your support.

The full change log has been posted here.

Thanks! This looks really good. Especially my plasma accelerators are pleased, this means the damage bonus from grade 5 efficient can entirely offset the damage penalty from plasma slug. :D
 
Clearly the changes to the new blueprints to deal with the grandfathering issues will be receiving the closest consideration today.

There are also the major issues with secondaries (perhaps most especially thermal load) that I tried to highlight in this thread:

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/402587-Grandfathering-problems-The-Rail-Gun

... which may need more work, but in the meantime I would just like to say ...

THANK YOU, FRONTIER - YOU ARE TAKING US IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION, FOR SURE!


All the best,

Truesilver

I think we just need a purchasable "reduces thermal load" experimental (for any item that has a thermal load).
 
This will go some way to alleviating the issues I have with engineering, but not nearly enough I fear.
 
Thank you FD, moving in the right direction,
But please drop the requirement to engineer each module from grade 1, i.e. once you have the module unlocked at grade 5 with an engineer it should be unlocked for the modules of the same type, all this is doing is adding frustration.
Once again thanks for the hard work on making Elite Dangerous great again.
 
I think we just need a purchasable "reduces thermal load" experimental (for any item that has a thermal load).

No, railguns are powerful with feedback cascade oder super penetrator. It doesnt help of you have thermal load as a specific effect, if you cant have one of the others. At least as long as you cant have two experimentals..
 

Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
- If you have a higher reputation with an Engineer, the number of rolls you need to progress through lower grades will be lower. This means you will be able to roll the highest grade much more quickly if you have a higher reputation with an Engineer.

Splendid. Thanks Ed (and The Team).

Less repetition the more familiar one is with The Engineers is a very good change. :)
 
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