Blocking feature being abused or was it intended to be this way? FDEV?

[metascrawl]

...nonconsensual PvP.

Sorry to sound like a broken record, but let's please not use this term in reference to any aspect of this video game. Like it or not, the association of this term with sexual abuse is just too strong - 'non-consensual' is rarely used in any other context in IRL. I'm sure that's not a connection anyone want to make here.

 

[EvE4evah]

That's not a mode though. It's a group. That's a significant difference.

Alright Becks, then I reckon the problem with Elite Dangerous playerbase is that many, many players mistook it for Farmville/Minecraft in Space. It was not designed with that idea in mind. Open was clearly designed as an insecure place, where you can be hunted by other players, whether you like it or not. It's even advertised by the FDev, as "make your own trail, or hunt other players". Just search, you'll find it.

Now, FDev has a dilemma: sticking to its initial premise, of a real Open world, no-bounds, or cater to the peace-and-love part of the community (which seems huge, BTW) and protect them, in detriment of the "Murderer" RolePlayers. So, I'm not saying there's right or wrong. But this "carebearish" mentality that many players have is currently bad for Open, because it tends to make it completely safe, with less players too. So, until FDev clears the issue (whether it's gonna be Farmville or not), it's community-breaking.

 

[EvE4evah]

Sorry to sound like a broken record, but let's please not use this term in reference to any aspect of this video game. Like it or not, the association of this term with sexual abuse is just too strong - it's rarely used in any other context in IRL. I'm sure that's not a connection anyone want to make here.

Games and Real Life are separate. If there's a game where you can nonconsensually intercourse with a Woman character (since the filter will erase the actual word), that's just a game.

People fail to understand that. There's no morals, law or anything in games, apart from the Sacred EULA.

 

[babelfisch]

Alright Becks, then I reckon the problem with Elite Dangerous playerbase is that many, many players mistook it for Farmville/Minecraft in Space. It's not, it w not designed with that idea in mind. Open was clearly designed as an insecure place, where you can be hunted by other players, whether you like it or not. It's even advertised by the FDev, as "make your own trail, or hunt other players". Just search, you'll find it.

Now, FDev has a dilemma: sticking to its initial premise, of a real Open world, no-bounds, or cater to the peace-and-love part of the community (which seems huge, BTW) and protect them, in detriment of the "Murderer" RolePlayers. So, I'm not saying there's right or wrong. But this "carebearish" mentality that many players have is currently bad for Open, because it tends to make it completely safe, with less players too. So, until FDev clears the issue (whether it's gonna be Farmville or not), it's community-breaking.

A few players mistook Elite Dangerous for Eve, and now they have problem and need to start threads about log out timers and player blocking. David Braben said from the very beginning that the game is not about PvP. You are the one being wrong about Open.

 

[metascrawl]

Games and Real Life are separate. If there's a game where you can a Woman character, that's just a game.

People fail to understand that. There's no morals, law or anything in games, apart from the Sacred EULA.

What? I'm not talking about morals or laws, I'm just saying that as a community there's no need to use such an icky term when there are plenty of alternatives. It makes my skin crawl a bit, and I'm sure I'm not alone in this. I can't force anyone not to use it, nor would I want to. I'm just trying to influence people away from it where I can.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

This is like banging one's head on a wall. I can only assume people's only mmo experience is Elite and they don't know how it works and what the norms are, ort hink that somehow elite is special and whatever pve'ers want should override pvpers. I am a pve'er, but I respect the rights of pvpers because they are important in the game, no matter how small the community. I've never even killed another player, but I support your right to be able to if they play in open.

My point was: it's about mutual respect. Calling Open the PvP mode disregards the other playing styles. That doesn't mean PvPers have no rights. It means they have just as many as PvEers.

Edit: wow, this was pages ago ... sorry about that.

 

[EvE4evah]

A few players mistook Elite Dangerous for Eve, and now they have problem and need to start threads about log out timers and player blocking. David Braben said from the very beginning that the game is not about PvP. You are the one being wrong about Open.

Proof please.

 

[Mohrgan]

Alright Becks, then I reckon the problem with Elite Dangerous playerbase is that many, many players mistook it for Farmville/Minecraft in Space. It's not, it w not designed with that idea in mind. Open was clearly designed as an insecure place, where you can be hunted by other players, whether you like it or not. It's even advertised by the FDev, as "make your own trail, or hunt other players". Just search, you'll find it.

Now, FDev has a dilemma: sticking to its initial premise, of a real Open world, no-bounds, or cater to the peace-and-love part of the community (which seems huge, BTW) and protect them, in detriment of the "Murderer" RolePlayers. So, I'm not saying there's right or wrong. But this "carebearish" mentality that many players have is currently bad for Open, because it tends to make it completely safe, with less players too. So, until FDev clears the issue (whether it's gonna be Farmville or not), it's community-breaking.

But, playing as an in-game tool has no down sides? Lol.

FD wants to rehabilitate open. But, it's a lost cause. A Notoriety system won;t do enough for those that avoid PvP, and it will do too much for those with a taste for seals. I say leave open to it's fate, whatever that turns out to be. And, we all just move on. Colonize another portion of the game space, because what was left behind is ruined.

I urge players to just find a playing environment that you enjoy, and play there. If it's open, play there and accept what it is. If it is not open, play there and accept what it is. FD can put their time and money into enjoyable content rather than spend time developing baby-sitting measures for those that don;t play and work well with others.

 

[EvE4evah]

What? I'm not talking about morals or laws, I'm just saying that as a community there's no need to use such an icky term when there are plenty of alternatives. It makes my skin crawl a bit, and I'm sure I'm not alone in this. I can't force anyone not to use it, nor would I want to. I'm just trying to influence people away from it where I can.

So I shouldn't pronounce the word "nonconsensual" in this forum because of an association with crimes IRL.

Ok.

BTW sorry for irking you.

 

[Jason Lightning]

What? I'm not talking about morals or laws, I'm just saying that as a community there's no need to use such an icky term when there are plenty of alternatives. It makes my skin crawl a bit, and I'm sure I'm not alone in this. I can't force anyone not to use it, nor would I want to. I'm just trying to influence people away from it where I can.

Thoughtpolice bothers me a lot more

The term consent is used quite a bit in the Real World in contracts and business dealings, I hear it all the time and I don't work for a legal department either. It's just a word that has multiple meanings.

 

[metascrawl]

So I shouldn't pronounce the word "nonconsensual" in this forum because of an association with crimes IRL.

Ok.

BTW sorry for irking you.

It not about crimes as such, it specifically about sexual abuse which no one wants to think about while reading about a game. You have every right to use the term, but I'm afraid you are going to make that association in many people's mind's whenever you do. If you're cool with that, fine.

 

[Mohrgan]

People can't go around sequestering words because of their own associations. That's plain silly. Words are for communicating, stashing them away for PC just hinders the passage of thought.

 

[EvE4evah]

My point was: it's about mutual respect. Calling Open the PvP mode disregards the other playing styles. That doesn't mean PvPers have no rights. It means they have just as many as PvEers.

Edit: wow, this was pages ago ... sorry about that.

On the contrary. If there are no Miners, Traders and Explorers, who wil the Sharks prey upon? Prey is needed for a hunt.

Make PVE in Open more rewarding, and riskier. Make Trade mission worth 10 million cr each, but make it so that if you get your cargo Stolen, it will be 10m worth to sell in Rogue stations.

Make it so if a pirate steals your Cargo, he gets a huge System wide signal for everybody to SC to him and hunt him.

If a Murderer pops your ship, give him a permanent flag, for as long as he isn't Bounty Hunted, and that can't be cleared with suiciding in a Sidewinder or logging off for a week.

 

[Aashenfox]

There is that mode already. It's called Moebius.

I'd prefer a purpose made mode with special pve missions with group and solo content mechanics, but Mobius is good, I am aware of them, as long as the players you want to play with also want to do that....nah, I'll just stay in solo til the devs make something or I get bored waiting, then I might try mobius.

 

[metascrawl]

Thoughtpolice bothers me a lot more

The term consent is used quite a bit in the Real World in contracts and business dealings, I hear it all the time and I don't work for a legal department either. It's just a word that has multiple meanings.

'Consent' is used all the time in many different contexts, of course. 'Non-consensual', for what ever reason, not so much. I'm not trying to police, I'm just trying to influence. Feel free to ignore my attempts to do so.

 

[Cosmos]

And that's the problem right there, though, isn't it?

Going anywhere you want, attacking anyone you want - with zero consequences to you as the attacker. Because the builder of the sandbox was naive and forgot to post rules or specify how they thought people should play in the sandbox.

Recently someone from Frontier - I think it was Sandro, stated that certain behaviours in-game were against the 'spirit of the game'.

Frontier has added in certain content - for example, the Goid wreck sites. Explorers and Science! types went to those sites, landed their ships, got out in SRV's to investigate. Then along comes the rabid player-killers who promptly set about the ships and SRV's.

Now, I may be wrong, but at those times, at those places, I'd say the 'spirit of the game' leaned towards 'investigating all this new Goid Wreck stuff Frontier has added, as part of the ongoing storyline. I'm pretty sure Frontier sees indiscriminate exploding of landed ships as behaviour which is undesirable.

However, Frontier currently don't have a leg to stand on, on this. They have singularly failed thus far to implement any kind of mechanism with which to enforce/encourage what Frontier thinks is the 'spirit of the game'. I have zero sympathy for Frontier in that respect.

So yes, you are very much technically correct in that currently, any player who wishes to can 'go anywhere, attack anyone', because currently there is nothing in the game which says "well, hang on a moment - this behaviour is undesirable within the 'spirit of the game' so here's some actual consequence and/or negative karma for you".

And it's been like that since the game's release in December 2014.

You're technically correct, and for the rest of the player base who have an inkling of what the 'spirit of the game' as intended by Frontier, it's rather frustrating that you are technically correct.

What I don't understand is why Frontier don't seem to want to put any kind of higher priority on enforcing/encouraging their idea on what the 'spirit of the game' is. A Frontier bod mentioning 'hang on chaps that's just not on' on the forums isn't enough and obviously isn't effective. Actually I do have an inkling why - it's because Frontier can't or wont assign the resources and time required to do that, until their other priorities are completed. The trouble being that they never assigned resources to implement a Crime & Consequence/Karma system in the first place.

I'm rather certain the game was advertised set in a cutthroat galaxy, where we have infinite freedom to blaze our trail and play it our way. I find it odd they talk about the 'spirit of the game', sadly without being able to read minds, and no clear definition of what that spirit is meant to have been, it comes across as a way to absolve themselves of their own mistakes by surreptitiously blaming their customers.

 

[Mohrgan]

On the contrary. If there are no Miners, Traders and Explorers, who wil the Sharks prey upon? Prey is needed for a hunt.

Make PVE in Open more rewarding, and riskier. Make Trade mission worth 10 million cr each, but make it so that if you get your cargo Stolen, it will be 10m worth to sell in Rogue stations.

Make it so if a pirate steals your Cargo, he gets a huge System wide signal for everybody to SC to him and hunt him.

If a Murderer pops your ship, give him a permanent flag, for as long as he isn't Bounty Hunted, and that can't be cleared with suiciding in a Sidewinder or logging off for a week.

Entice them with bribes to make being a victim fun, and engaging? Not going to happen. Face it, no one wants to play the victim, but NPC's. NPC's seem happy to take it on the chin for you. Not so much with the player types.

 

[Stealthie]

Dont worry about the spicy streamers instancing... its their problem not yours!

Lets make Open great again!

Quoted just to ask...

Do Delta use any identifying insignia/tags on their ships?

I don't really get deliberately involved in co-op play but, on the off-chance that I happen across some of your guys while in combat, I'd like to ensure I join in on the correct side. [up]

 

[Becks]

Alright Becks, then I reckon the problem with Elite Dangerous playerbase is that many, many players mistook it for Farmville/Minecraft in Space. It's not, it w not designed with that idea in mind. Open was clearly designed as an insecure place, where you can be hunted by other players, whether you like it or not. It's even advertised by the FDev, as "make your own trail, or hunt other players". Just search, you'll find it.

Those are two speculations which are both absolutely irrelevant to the point I was making. Möbius is not a mode, period.

Now, FDev has a dilemma: sticking to its initial premise, of a real Open world, no-bounds, or cater to the peace-and-love part of the community (which seems huge, BTW) and protect them, in detriment of the "Murderer" RolePlayers. So, I'm not saying there's right or wrong. But this "carebearish" mentality that many players have is currently bad for Open, because it tends to make it completely safe, with less players too. So, until FDev clears the issue (whether it's gonna be Farmville or not), it's community-breaking.

You can throw in buzzwords and phrases like "peace-and-love part of the community" or "carebearish" as much as you like, it doesn't change that a large part of the community has not the will to interact or engage with PvPers who kill for the sake of killing (and let's not fall into the illusion that the so-called "RP" of that part of the community is anything else than an excuse to do so). I'm not anti-PvP and I don't want Open-PvE either. And I sure as hell don't need you to explain the game, this forum or FDevs dilemma to me, thank you very much.

In the ends it's the vocal minority on both fringes which seem to split the community, while the silent majority seems to get along with the status-quo. Keep the blocking feature as it is and the let the people decide for themselves whether they want to interact again with an account or not. Does that lead to some people playing in "Carebear"-Open? Probably, so what? It's their decision whether they miss parts of the game, not yours.

Community breaking? The PvP/PvE discussion around Open has been around for years and so far the game survived it. It's not as much an issue as you try to make it.

 

[Aashenfox]

Entice them with bribes to make being a victim fun, and engaging? Not going to happen. Face it, no one wants to play the victim, but NPC's. NPC's seem happy to take it on the chin for you. Not so much with the player types.

Love those NPCs, they just can't get enough of my lazzzzors, and despite my reputation, they keep coming back for more! Bless.