PvP Bounty Hunting WARNING - KWS wont let you off Pilots Federation Bounty. PVP Bounty hunting is DEAD.

What purpose would a PVP moderator serve ?.
Didn't you get the memo?

PvPers are discriminated against by the current bunch of mods. If you're a PvPer, you're toast. How you behave on the forum has got nothing to do with it.

That many a PvPer happily keeps on posting without ever getting infracted, or that PvEers are also getting bans are fake realities.
 
Didn't you get the memo?

PvPers are discriminated against by the current bunch of mods. If you're a PvPer, you're toast. How you behave on the forum has got nothing to do with it.

That many a PvPer happily keeps on posting without ever getting infracted, or that PvEers are also getting bans are fake realities.

FAKE NEWS!
 
The Pilots Federation does not care about crimes against NPCs, only against players, therefore the target was clean as far as the PF is concerned.
Not quite. As I understand it the reason OP's target was clean was because it didn't have a bounty in the current jurisdiction, not because it didn't have a PF bounty. Had the ship been Wanted by the controlling faction in the system, OP would not have picked up a PF bounty.

So the PF does pay attention to crimes against NPCs, but only insofar as it determines whether or not a target can be legally attacked. The PF doesn't hand out bounties for PVE crimes, but it takes them into account when deciding whether or not to hand out a PVP bounty.

If I've misunderstood this then the system is even more chaotic than I thought.
 
Not quite. As I understand it the reason OP's target was clean was because it didn't have a bounty in the current jurisdiction, not because it didn't have a PF bounty. Had the ship been Wanted by the controlling faction in the system, OP would not have picked up a PF bounty.

So the PF does pay attention to crimes against NPCs, but only insofar as it determines whether or not a target can be legally attacked. The PF doesn't hand out bounties for PVE crimes, but it takes them into account when deciding whether or not to hand out a PVP bounty.

If I've misunderstood this then the system is even more chaotic than I thought.

No I don’t think that’s how it works. The pilot must not have had a PF bounty or he’d have shown as wanted from the get go without need of a warrant scanner. Those things are galaxy wide. The only way he would not show as wanted would be in an Anarchy System and in that situation, the OP would not have gotten wanted either.
 
No I don’t think that’s how it works. The pilot must not have had a PF bounty or he’d have shown as wanted from the get go without need of a warrant scanner. Those things are galaxy wide. The only way he would not show as wanted would be in an Anarchy System and in that situation, the OP would not have gotten wanted either.
I get that. My concern was with MadDog's assertion that the target showed as clean because the PF doesn't care about PVE bounties. I'm saying that I think they do care about PVE bounties, just that this particular target didn't have one in that particular juristiction. That's why the OP picked up the PBF.

Bottom line: if "Wanted" shows in the HUD because of any active bounty, PF or otherwise, you won't pick up a PBF for destroying the target.
 
Not quite. As I understand it the reason OP's target was clean was because it didn't have a bounty in the current jurisdiction, not because it didn't have a PF bounty. Had the ship been Wanted by the controlling faction in the system, OP would not have picked up a PF bounty.

So the PF does pay attention to crimes against NPCs, but only insofar as it determines whether or not a target can be legally attacked. The PF doesn't hand out bounties for PVE crimes, but it takes them into account when deciding whether or not to hand out a PVP bounty.

If I've misunderstood this then the system is even more chaotic than I thought.

I think you may have misunderstood PFB's.

As far as I am aware, if a player destroys another clean player, they get a PFB, which is a galaxy wide bounty, and become wanted everywhere (except anarchies, but no-one is ever wanted in anarchies...).

The OP's target cannot have had a PFB, otherwise they would have shown as wanted.

What the OP is suggesting (and they understand and accept that their target did not have a PFB) is that because they scanned the target with a KWS which showed local bounties (against NPCs) somewhere else, they should not have got a PFB for destroying their target, despite the fact that the target was clearly shown as clean in the HUD.

I'm not sure where you get the information that the PF pays attention to crimes against NPCs. The PFB is a very specific player on player bounty, nothing else, nothing more complex than that. Destroy a clean player for any reason and you get a PFB.
 
I think you may have misunderstood PFB's.

As far as I am aware, if a player destroys another clean player, they get a PFB, which is a galaxy wide bounty, and become wanted everywhere (except anarchies, but no-one is ever wanted in anarchies...).

The OP's target cannot have had a PFB, otherwise they would have shown as wanted.

What the OP is suggesting (and they understand and accept that their target did not have a PFB) is that because they scanned the target with a KWS which showed local bounties (against NPCs) somewhere else, they should not have got a PFB for destroying their target, despite the fact that the target was clearly shown as clean in the HUD.

I'm not sure where you get the information that the PF pays attention to crimes against NPCs. The PFB is a very specific player on player bounty, nothing else, nothing more complex than that. Destroy a clean player for any reason and you get a PFB.
Pretty much that, though there are Powerplay exemptions as well but those are slightly more complicated and zi don’t know them that well.
 
I get that. My concern was with MadDog's assertion that the target showed as clean because the PF doesn't care about PVE bounties. I'm saying that I think they do care about PVE bounties, just that this particular target didn't have one in that particular juristiction. That's why the OP picked up the PBF.

Bottom line: if "Wanted" shows in the HUD because of any active bounty, PF or otherwise, you won't pick up a PBF for destroying the target.

As posted above by Faded Glory, the PF only cares about player on player unsanctioned murder. If a wanted player is legally shot down because s/he was wanted in sector, then that’s a legit kill and won’t incur a bounty. Anyway, Unsanctioned is the key here. If the pilot is already wanted then the kill is legit and so the PF stay out of it.
 
As posted above by Faded Glory, the PF only cares about player on player unsanctioned murder. If a wanted player is legally shot down because s/he was wanted in sector, then that’s a legit kill and won’t incur a bounty. Anyway, Unsanctioned is the key here. If the pilot is already wanted then the kill is legit and so the PF stay out of it.

Yes , And i Frankly think that this is a bad way of implementing, since it takes away Bounty hunting CMDRs , it makes it even harder than it already is. we simply dont have the technology to chase someone between systems unless you friend him. I mean have you EVER tried to follow a CMDR trough the wake scanner? by the time you do scan and jump the target is already in another jump. and you lose him, so chasing is NOT an option. fighting as of NOW is not a option either, unless the target has a hefty 1M bounty... But i don't think this will ever be a possible scenario (Combat logs baby!).... So in the end. this is just another brick DEVELOPED by devs to make PvP even more apart from the main game. And I just feel sad about it they should actually remove the Top5 bounties... because it serve no purpose as it is right now...
 
I'm not sure where you get the information that the PF pays attention to crimes against NPCs.
OK, let's put it this way: if the OP's target had carried its own local bounty for crimes against NPCs, OP would not have received any bounty for destroying it. So the PF does pay attention to crimes against NPCs, albeit indirectly via the local Wanted status.

I suspect this is just a confusion of terminology at play here, because I agree with the rest of the description. This was the quote that seemed off to me...

The target had committed some offence against NPCs in another system and incurred a bounty there. The Pilots Federation does not care about crimes against NPCs, only against players, therefore the target was clean as far as the PF is concerned.
Taking a second look at it, the second sentence looked like a blanket statement but is less so in the context of the first. If instead of "The Pilots Federation does not care about crimes against NPCs..." it's read as "The Pilots Federation does not care about out-of-system crimes against NPCs..." then it's a better fit.

It's probably just me being picky, but I just read it as "The PF won't care what you do to NPCs, only players" which could be misleading. If you attack NPCs and are Wanted for those attacks in your current system, a player BH can kill you without incurring a PF sanction.
 
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Yes , And i Frankly think that this is a bad way of implementing, since it takes away Bounty hunting CMDRs , it makes it even harder than it already is. we simply dont have the technology to chase someone between systems unless you friend him. I mean have you EVER tried to follow a CMDR trough the wake scanner? by the time you do scan and jump the target is already in another jump. and you lose him, so chasing is NOT an option. fighting as of NOW is not a option either, unless the target has a hefty 1M bounty... But i don't think this will ever be a possible scenario (Combat logs baby!).... So in the end. this is just another brick DEVELOPED by devs to make PvP even more apart from the main game. And I just feel sad about it they should actually remove the Top5 bounties... because it serve no purpose as it is right now...


You're absolutely right, PvP bounty hunting is practically impossible unless both hunter and hunted wish to play the game. That's always been the case for so many reasons, some of which you mention, but let's just add instancing and modes into the equation.

The thing is, as has been said previously, bounties against the environment and NPCs are trivial to get, so the consequences for having them are relatively easy to avoid. Most players (I suspect) don't rack up bounties against the environment so that they can be the target of player bounty hunters.

Now, what FD could do, if they wanted to make gameplay out of the PFB, would be to make them local to a system where the crime was committed, then create a new piece of equipment: the PFB Scanner... This would scan only for PFB's (which would still only be given out for destroying clean players, nothing else), and if it found that a player had one, would allow the bounty hunter to attack and try to claim the bounty without becoming wanted. Could either do it by simply flagging them as wanted, or could be sneakier and remotely disable "report crimes against me" on the target ship. Players with a PFB might feel safe, because they aren't wanted where they currently are, but they'd never know whether that hollow square on the scanner had a PFB Scanner...

I don't think however that FD want the PFB to be about gameplay. It's about trying to stop players from randomly destroying clean players, and dis-incentivising them from doing so by giving them a galaxy wide bounty (and presumably further 'punishments' for repeat offenders if / when the karma system is introduced), and as things progress making harder hit squads of NPCs coming after you, denying docking rights... all things that make playing the game less fun unless being continually chased and attacked by players is what you want. So doing what I outlined above would actually give players who do enjoy that an incentive to destroy clean players for no reason, and ultimately, FD don't want players killing clean players for no reason, so they are unlikely to ever add gameplay around such behavior. This is just my take on it, and obviously I could be wrong... :)
 
Yes , And i Frankly think that this is a bad way of implementing, since it takes away Bounty hunting CMDRs , it makes it even harder than it already is. we simply dont have the technology to chase someone between systems unless you friend him. I mean have you EVER tried to follow a CMDR trough the wake scanner? by the time you do scan and jump the target is already in another jump. and you lose him, so chasing is NOT an option. fighting as of NOW is not a option either, unless the target has a hefty 1M bounty... But i don't think this will ever be a possible scenario (Combat logs baby!).... So in the end. this is just another brick DEVELOPED by devs to make PvP even more apart from the main game. And I just feel sad about it they should actually remove the Top5 bounties... because it serve no purpose as it is right now...

I have tried using a wake scanner, yes. It’s worse than you describe because even if you get the scan quickly and the game doesn’t screw you via the endless Blue tunnel and you get to the other system quickly, you might just as easily not be instances with the player who’s high wake you scanned.
That’s a issue with the wake scanner though, not PF bounties. PF bounties make it so players who have them are wanted galaxy wide. It also locks their rebuy to the ship they were in when the bounty was acquired. There’s nothing about that making BH Players any harder than it already is.
 
You killed a Clean Novice who wasnt wanted. You deserve your PFB and it lets the rest of us hunt you for seal clubbing.

Thats a great idea, why don't you and your friends go and hunt him down. Then you all may understand why PVP bounty hunting is a total joke and not come here with idealistic views
 
Thats a great idea, why don't you and your friends go and hunt him down. Then you all may understand why PVP bounty hunting is a total joke and not come here with idealistic views

Too funny. I've been hunting down griefers since game release. Now we have pilot fed bounties we can kill any seal clubber and the local security will help us. I've killed several PFB commanders since 2.4 release and I think its an excellent and much needed feature.

Lets make Open great again!
 
Too funny. I've been hunting down griefers since game release. Now we have pilot fed bounties we can kill any seal clubber and the local security will help us. I've killed several PFB commanders since 2.4 release and I think its an excellent and much needed feature.

Lets make Open great again!

You are not capable of killing me... not even in a wing of 4 cutters and me in my Viper.. You're welcome to try anyway. BTW I only have local bounty now , because you know viper are cheap rebuy ;) and the other mostly harmless CMDr was in Power play territory... Oh.. I'll be in nanomam killing small fish if you want to chase me down ;)
 
I have tried using a wake scanner, yes. It’s worse than you describe because even if you get the scan quickly and the game doesn’t screw you via the endless Blue tunnel and you get to the other system quickly, you might just as easily not be instances with the player who’s high wake you scanned.
That’s a issue with the wake scanner though, not PF bounties. PF bounties make it so players who have them are wanted galaxy wide. It also locks their rebuy to the ship they were in when the bounty was acquired. There’s nothing about that making BH Players any harder than it already is.

it's way Simplier than that... it's mathematics mostly

Jumps in the open normaly takes from 30 to 60 seconds. (jumps to a instance TAKES LONGER! mostly from 45 to 90)
cool down is = 15 seconds (from hiper jump to hiperjump)
WAKE scan takes 10 Seconds.
Hiperjump charge more 10.


now lets make the math.

ship being chased.

Wake created 0:00
First arrival in the new sys worts case scenario 1:00
Cooldown 1:15
Jump charge 1:30
wake created 1:30

Ship chasing

wake created 0:00
Scan 0:10
jump charge 0:25
*extra 5 seconds countdown 0:30
Arrival at new system (with the same time as the first ship) 1:30

IMPOSSIBLE.
 
it's way Simplier than that... it's mathematics mostly

Jumps in the open normaly takes from 30 to 60 seconds. (jumps to a instance TAKES LONGER! mostly from 45 to 90)
cool down is = 15 seconds (from hiper jump to hiperjump)
WAKE scan takes 10 Seconds.
Hiperjump charge more 10.


now lets make the math.

ship being chased.

Wake created 0:00
First arrival in the new sys worts case scenario 1:00
Cooldown 1:15
Jump charge 1:30
wake created 1:30

Ship chasing

wake created 0:00
Scan 0:10
jump charge 0:25
*extra 5 seconds countdown 0:30
Arrival at new system (with the same time as the first ship) 1:30

IMPOSSIBLE.

It's not impossible it's just optional.
 
The moment you arrive in a new system you can also turn off the FSD or thrusters to drop out of SC before the cooldown is complete. If there is no one else in the system, the next people arriving will get a fresh instance with no low wake, making you essentially impossible to find.

Even if the one being followed has no intention of logging off or mode switching to stop pursuit, and instancing is working in the pursuer's favor, you'd still need to know where they are going, before they get there, to have a reasonable chance of intercepting them.
 
The moment you arrive in a new system you can also turn off the FSD or thrusters to drop out of SC before the cooldown is complete. If there is no one else in the system, the next people arriving will get a fresh instance with no low wake, making you essentially impossible to find.

Even if the one being followed has no intention of logging off or mode switching to stop pursuit, and instancing is working in the pursuer's favor, you'd still need to know where they are going, before they get there, to have a reasonable chance of intercepting them.

Yes, That's why I think wake scanners should show the whole destination (aka course plotted) meaning that you can know exactly where the person final destination is.
 
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