Break through SCBs instantly with modified railguns (Newletter 121)

Zeta Legion

Z
bitstorm said:
And you haven't even tried it.

I genuinely hope Frontier don't listen to your opinion, the opinion of people who think they already know all the answers and aren't willing to test things really isn't worth much very much.
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If I told you that getting shot in the head by a .308 rifle is fatal, would you need me to prove it to you by shooting you in the head?

This is not some nebulous 'deals some % of damage' or 'has some variable effect on shields' guff. FDev stated it pretty clearly; this modification instantly kills shields when used within the priming window. It's also applied to a weapon that is already the de-facto choice for PvP, a place already unfriendly to shields on the majority of ships The remainder of which are entirely reliant on SCB use (and are much slower than most PvP ships) to survive. This weapon will either A) kill shield use entirely among willing PvP participants, or B) force every PvPer to use as-yet unmentioned modules that directly counter this one. Either way it ends up perpetuating the same tired, stagnant meta we currently 'enjoy'.
 
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bitstorm

bitstorm
Zeta Legion said:
If I told you that getting shot in the head by a .308 rifle is fatal, would you need me to prove it to you by shooting you in the head?
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Ahhhahahah!! Nice one. :)

Zeta Legion said:
force every (willing) participant in PvP to eschew shields entirely further perpetuating the same tired, stagnant meta we currently 'enjoy'.
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There's an anti-silent running weapon too so that meta is also changing.
 
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bitstorm

bitstorm
Kvas said:
What's there to test? You can clearly see what it does. I don't know who would even propose a weapon like this, crazy.
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Maybe there's an unbreakable SCB mod.

Maybe there's a shield mod that allows a few seconds of silent running without breaking the shield.

Maybe there's some sensor overload mod.

Who the chuff knows.

And even if no direct counter has been added by Frontier, maybe among all the stuff that's being introduced some creative PvPer might come up with some clever and innovative solution, isn't that supposed to be half the fun?

Or maybe you lot can just continue moaning for nerfs on stuff you haven't even tried yet. :|
 
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Kvas

Kvas
At least with silent build you will still have HP that you spent on equipping HRP's and one shot won't make it disappear.

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Maybe it would be nice to have a little bit of balance, so people without Horizons or who do PVE don't insta die when meeting a PVP player?
 
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Odoacre Barbamerda

Odoacre Barbamerda
bitstorm said:
Maybe there's an unbreakable SCB mod.

Maybe there's a shield mod that allows a few seconds of silent running without breaking the shield.

Maybe there's some sensor overload mod.

Who the chuff knows.

And even if no direct counter has been added by Frontier, maybe among all the stuff that's being introduced some creative PvPer might come up with some clever and innovative solution?

Or maybe you lot can just continue moaning for nerfs on stuff you haven't even tried yet. [rolleyes]
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This is what I meant before. You cannot argue in this forum.

"maybe the sky will be blue and the flowers will glow in the sunrise"
 

bitstorm

bitstorm
Odoacre Barbamerda said:
This is what I meant before. You cannot argue in this forum.

"maybe the sky will be blue and the flowers will glow in the sunrise"
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Which means you should test it out yourself before starting with the call for nerfs.

Which is what I'm saying.

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Kvas said:
If they have a counter they are communicating it damn poorly. Makes them look silly.
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No the PvP community are making themselves look silly. I thought you lot had a bit of sense about you, I thought it was supposed to be the PvErs that were reactionary.

I hope there isn't a counter, SCB was the meta for a good while, metas need counters. Silent running now has a counter (and possibly quite a fun one too).
 
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Kvas

Kvas
There is one counter - alt + F4.

Thankfully I am not an avid PVP'er but I just bought a Python, If I knew, I wouldn't even bother. I don't even have a stake in Horizon vs Vanila, cause I have Lifetime pass, but when I see a bull      I call it what it is.
 

Derath

D
Kvas said:
You would be pretty *angry* if you spend a lot of materials on a useless mod like that and perks are random too, so you might end up with this lemon either you like it or not. No one ever will be using shields anymore if this rail gun is in game.

FD is slowly killing this game to me, instead balancing we will get RNG lottery, YEY *slow clap*
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Interesting video with lots of good ideas, planetside 2 has a bit of an identity crisis and especially sucks at balancing but they do try to progress with the game. Its a great one to study actually because its almost one of a kind you get all sorts of interesting data points out of it. The thing I like and hate about it is entirely depending on the sort of fights going on at the time I will either have one of the most exciting gameplay experiences available, or one of the worst :p
 

Zeta Legion

Z
bitstorm said:
Which means you should test it out yourself before starting with the call for nerfs.

Which is what I'm saying.

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No the PvP community are making themselves look silly. I thought you lot had a bit of sense about you, I thought it was supposed to be the PvErs that were reactionary.

I hope there isn't a counter, SCB was the meta for a good while, metas need counters. Silent running now has a counter (and possibly quite a fun one too).
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The problem with having egregiously overpowered modules is that they cause the entire meta to revolve around their use or their direct counter. If missiles one-shotted every ship, every single pilot would equip countermeasures. The only ship worth flying used to be the Python because it could out-shoot and out-fly pretty much every other ship in the game. When SCBs were overpowered, every ship stacked as many as they could and builds were either built purely for burst damage to overwhelm shields or pure tanks crammed to the rafters with SCBs to outlast their opponents. Ships that couldn't adopt the meta were sidelined. Same thing with the HRP meta we have now. It forces binary choices on a game where ship customization is supposed to be a selling point.

It's not enough to just add counter-modules for every single overpowered strategy or module in the game; that perpetuates an arms-race that progressively distances all other modules from being competitive in the game. Whatever replaces the previous meta must be more overpowered than it, and whatever replaces the replacement must be more overpowered still. People may not like it, but targeting the module, ship, or mechanic that is perpetuating the current meta and nerfing it is a much better solution long-term.
 

Kvas

Kvas
I haven't played Planetside 2 much, I just saw that channel and thought the guy talks with sense. They added him to the development team, and I heard since then they had some success bringing players back.
 

Derath

D
Kvas said:
I haven't played Planetside 2 much, I just saw that channel and thought the guy talks with sense. They added him to the development team, and I heard since then they had some success bringing players back.
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They still do things that beggar belief on occasion though, I mean the gatekeeper (a weapon incase readers don't play planetside) was one of the most obviously overpowered weapons i've ever seen added to a game, it shouldn't have lasted 10 seconds of testing and when developers make mistakes that obvious/big I always feel a bit suspicious about their future attempts to better things.

Their new updates fun though, so progress is made :) (apologies for derailment)
 

bitstorm

bitstorm
Zeta Legion said:
It's not enough to just add counter-modules for every single overpowered strategy or module in the game; that perpetuates an arms-race that progressively distances all other modules from being competitive in the game. Whatever replaces the previous meta must be more overpowered than it, and whatever replaces the replacement must be more overpowered still. People may not like it, but targeting the module, ship, or mechanic that is perpetuating the current meta and nerfing it is a much better solution long-term.
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I'm not 100% sure what you mean by "overpowered" in this context but...

I think what you're saying may be correct if the OP meta *is* the counter. But this is not how it works (at least for some ED metas). Ships are an accumulation of modules, it's actually possible to fly the meta while equipping the counter to that very same meta, meaning the meta that defeats the meta does not have to overpower the meta!! =p

This is all theory though, how this is all going to play out I have no idea, I'm just suggesting it's given a chance without the preemptive call for nerfs, because at this time none of us can currently see the big picture.

It may turn out breaking SCBs may not be great, Frontier have even said it's one thing they will be keeping an eye on. But really nobody knows at this point, and Frontier think it's at least worth seeing how it plays out.

It's just a bit frustrating seeing [cry][cry][cry] nerf this or I'll leave the game, it's all ruined etc... over the forum when no-one's even touched the bloody beta yet.
 
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Kvas

Kvas
With all hard counters we will quickly start lacking utility points, now, you will need, chaff, ECM, heat sink, where is the room for Scanners for example?

The problem I see is Extreme builds have such advantage over PVE players that there is NO chance of ever winning such an encounter. This in turn leads to frustration for people who like a little bit of thrill, and who actively seek PVP, because their target will jump out without even leaving you time to speak, or combat log... It's simply too expensive to risk it. That's how you bread Griefers

Yesterdays example: I am flying Python, see a shield less FAS, he talks to me, ask for PVP, I decline politely stating its my PVE ship, he interdictst me anyway, I jump out, go take my shield less FAS, come back and hear "Look who's back, runner came for more beating?" And I was, "No, now we can have a fair duel". I lost btw, but gained a friend.
 
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