Break through SCBs instantly with modified railguns (Newletter 121)

With all hard counters we will quickly start lacking utility points, now, you will need, chaff, ECM, heat sink, where is the room for Scanners for example?

I think the nice thing is, some of the weapons are counters.

ie Force Shell can be a Feedback Cascade counter.
 
I understand your point Kvas but much of it depends on what you consider a PvE loadout.

I mean if were talking bounty hunting at an RES your PvE loadout will easily stomp everything other than another full combat loadout. Most of the issue is caused by having "combat" modules, first it was SCB's (which I personally had no issue with because i never struggled to get through them) but now its HRPs, and you can't bypass HRPs with skill like you could with SCB's which causes a whole new set of problems.

So two pythons meet, one is pirate spec, one is PvP spec whats the difference?

The PvP spec one has 500%+ effective HP once shields are down, that is an auto win short of a monumental stomping despite both ships being geared for combat.
 
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I'm not 100% sure what you mean by "overpowered" in this context but...

I think what you're saying may be correct if the OP meta *is* the counter. But this is not how it works (at least for some ED metas). Ships are an accumulation of modules, it's actually possible to fly the meta while equipping the counter to that very same meta, meaning the meta that defeats the meta does not have to overpower the meta!! =p

This is all theory though, how this is all going to play out I have no idea, I'm just suggesting it's given a chance without the preemptive call for nerfs, because at this time none of us can currently see the big picture.

It may turn out breaking SCBs may not be great, Frontier have even said it's one thing they will be keeping an eye on. But really nobody knows at this point, and Frontier think it's at least worth seeing how it plays out.

It's just a bit frustrating seeing [cry][cry][cry] nerf this or I'll leave the game, it's all ruined etc... over the forum when no-one's even touched the bloody beta yet.

I don't really think my position is that unreasonable to be honest.

There are definitely some people taking things a bit far though, especially since FD have pretty much said that this module is under scrutiny already.
 
Yes and it just creates more extremes, you want everyone to play solo don't you?
You simply cannot prepare yourself for what's comming, it's gonna be a mess, and people with Horizons will laugh at the rest of the server.
 
Even with RES farmer, how do you compete with rails?

How is he gonna rail gun you when you're hammering him with low damage force shells?

Yeah you still can't compete you'll inevitably just jump out but still.

Actually maybe you don't need to jump if a railgunner just can't stay on target?
 
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"Ruined"

You haven't even tried it yet. [rolleyes]

It hasn't even gone into beta, nor have you given Frontier any opportunity to see how it plays out.

This is a one way process, you lot say how it is and Frontier have to follow?

I'm not claiming the balance is ruined by these upcoming changes, I'm stating in general that I refuse to let combat balance be ruined by feedback made out of ignorance or inexperience.

Following the above, I clearly mean that I will shoot down unproductive feedback, but people can disagree with my position while still having the necessary experience to provide proper feedback.

For example, A.D.Grape and I disagree quite often, especially in the last beta. But I respect his opinion because I know he is experienced and he has shown himself to be well-informed and capable.
 
There is one counter - alt + F4.

Thankfully I am not an avid PVP'er but I just bought a Python, If I knew, I wouldn't even bother. I don't even have a stake in Horizon vs Vanila, cause I have Lifetime pass, but when I see a bull I call it what it is.

That might be a good counter for the new railgun weapon coming out. This railgun needs to go or be adjusted. To take out a shield because someone uses a scb is lame. You might as well get rid of scb and never brought them in the game in the first place.
 
Won't work, chaff will render my weapons unusable, have you tried hitting a fast ship with fixed cannons? it's harder than hitting slow ship with fixed rails... Now in a ship that is less agile I won't be able to stop him firing at me with rails and my only option would be reallying on my shields to keep me going. You understand why a weapon that breaks your shields is a bad idea? Only counter is alt + F4
 
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Won't work, chaff will render my weapons unusable, rail is a fixed weapon so it's not affected by it, now in a ship that is less agile I won't be able to stop him hitting me and my only option would be reallying on my shields to keep me going, now you understand why a weapon that breaks your shields is a bad idea? Only counter is alt + F4

Eh? chaff doesn't render gimbals or turrets useable.

But yeah sounds like you've already lost, better alt-f4 in your case I think.
 
I hope there isn't a counter, SCB was the meta for a good while, metas need counters. Silent running now has a counter (and possibly quite a fun one too).

Don't make me start with you, please.

As the part 2 livestream have informed us, FD wants to go all the way in beta, which implies that many weapons are going to the extreme. The rail gun is probably the most controversial one considering it throws large ships into the trash can, again.

I seriously wonder if FD dislike large ships in combat or something...

This isn't overreaction, this is reasoned and experienced feedback on a conceptual mechanic being introduced.

If I may ask, how often do you fight in a large ship against experienced players? If you do have experience, how crucial was SCB to your survival? How often do you find yourself "dodging" rail guns in a large ship?

My current stance on the issue is to render the weapon much less effective against shield class that includes 7 and above.
 
Don't make me start with you, please.

As the part 2 livestream have informed us, FD wants to go all the way in beta, which implies that many weapons are going to the extreme. The rail gun is probably the most controversial one considering it throws large ships into the trash can, again.

I seriously wonder if FD dislike large ships in combat or something...

This isn't overreaction, this is reasoned and experienced feedback on a conceptual mechanic being introduced.

If I may ask, how often do you fight in a large ship against experienced players? If you do have experience, how crucial was SCB to your survival? How often do you find yourself "dodging" rail guns in a large ship?

My current stance on the issue is to render the weapon much less effective against shield class that includes 7 and above.

I have a funny feeling yes they hate large ships and are trying to push people to use the small ships more. I think they also want to see people spending more on repairs after combat.
 
It's just a bit frustrating seeing [cry][cry][cry] nerf this or I'll leave the game, it's all ruined etc... over the forum when no-one's even touched the bloody beta yet.

For me it's a conceptual critique, just as if my local politician decides to realize some sort of conceptual genocide against a specific population (large ships), I would be shaking my head and saying "no."

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How is he gonna rail gun you when you're hammering him with low damage force shells?

Yeah you still can't compete you'll inevitably just jump out but still.

Actually maybe you don't need to jump if a railgunner just can't stay on target?

Ugh...

How much time do you spend in combat?

Do you not know that even fixed cannon is hard to land due to its projectile speed and "spin to win" method that experienced pilots employ to nullify kinetic weaponry such as MC or Cannon?

If gimballed or turreted, chaff completely nullifies it.
 
As the part 2 livestream have informed us, FD wants to go all the way in beta, which implies that many weapons are going to the extreme. The rail gun is probably the most controversial one considering it throws large ships into the trash can, again.

I seriously wonder if FD dislike large ships in combat or something...

This isn't overreaction, this is reasoned and experienced feedback on a conceptual mechanic being introduced.

Much of this thread is an overreaction in respect to not having tried it out and not having seen the whole picture.


For me it's a conceptual critique, just as if my local politician decides to realize some sort of conceptual genocide against a specific population (large ships), I would be shaking my head and saying "no."

Sure that's fine but calling for nerfs isn't conceptual critique nor do I think we can fairly conceptionally critique in any realistic manner until weve seen all that's on offer.


Do you not know that even fixed cannon is hard to land due to its projectile speed and "spin to win" method that experienced pilots employ to nullify kinetic weaponry such as MC or Cannon?

So build a quick charging FSD instead. What do you want me to do list every single possible counter in a patch we know little about!

At least I'm coming up with options instead of "Frontier nerf it" "game ruined" "shields are pointless" etc.. which is my main complaint with much of this thread.
 
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I'm not claiming the balance is ruined by these upcoming changes, I'm stating in general that I refuse to let combat balance be ruined by feedback made out of ignorance or inexperience.

Following the above, I clearly mean that I will shoot down unproductive feedback, but people can disagree with my position while still having the necessary experience to provide proper feedback.

For example, A.D.Grape and I disagree quite often, especially in the last beta. But I respect his opinion because I know he is experienced and he has shown himself to be well-informed and capable.

I think for once, pretty much everyone who is knowledgable is in agreement: as they are now, the new railguns will NOT be even close to balanced. It really is that simple.
 

Kylby36

Banned
You guys seem to be forgetting that not everyone will have the railgun that destroys your shield when using SCB. There are hundreds of different modules you could choose from. A lot people will choose other hardpoints over it, because most NPCs don't even have SCBs.
 
Much of this thread is an overreaction in respect to not having tried it out and not having seen the whole picture.

Yes, in this thread, not me.


Sure that's fine but calling for nerfs isn't conceptual critique nor do I think we can fairly conceptionally critique in any realistic manner until weve seen all that's on offer.

Tell all the political theorists about how they shouldn't point out the flaws in various theories and improve upon them, actually not just political theorists, all theorists.

I'm not rejecting the idea in its entirety, I'm suggesting alternative conceptual implementation based on its conceptual existence, which is something I do with theories of all kinds in my daily life, believe it or not, I'm paid to do it.

So build a quick charging FSD instead. What do you want me to do list every single possible counter in a patch we know little about!

Oh, how brilliant:

"Let's see... oh my opponent has a railgun, and I'm in a large ship/rely on SCB, time to flee!"

When you compare the rail gun modification to all other modifications, it's clear which one is breaking balance and which one isn't. Not to mention I already suggested that at least make it less effective against shield class 7 and above (Now I think about it, might have to start with 6 since Python is dead in the water with this change).

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You guys seem to be forgetting that not everyone will have the railgun that destroys your shield when using SCB. There are hundreds of different modules you could choose from. A lot people will choose other hardpoints over it, because most NPCs don't even have SCBs.

How often do you participate in PvP? How familiar you are with PvP meta?

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Which clearly is no-one in this thread. Unless you work for Frontier.

Or unless you've somehow managed to get hold of 2.1 early.

What he means is knowledgeable of combat mechanics and current meta and how they interact with these conceptual mechanics. Rail gun modification is the most offensive.

Though you did prove yourself to be not very informed in this thread.
 
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