COMPLETED CG Brewer Corporation Planetary Survey Initiative (Exploration)

[Surprize960]

our idea of ingame response varies.
when there is an ingame system that responds to player activity, and gms decide to bypass that, i dont consider that a consequence of ingame authorities...
brewers deciding to accept data for a few days longer is in game effect, but it is a consequence of out of game authorities.
somebody indeed couldnt live with the consequences...

I understand your point. But I think the „out of game authorities“ did „playing the game“ in that, that they let the „ingame authorities“ react in a logical way and FD as the „Master of Ceremonies“ gave the players a chance to turn the rudder with ingame mechanics.

I do not deny the Intervention, but I don‘t think it is „inadmissable“.

If the game developer always intervenes in such a low-threshold way, even when the player base decided in an orchetrated way out of the game, to target something inside the game - whether this happened or not (and it would be ok, if), everything is fine.

One could perhaps say that FD is “playing the game” in their way with us. You might see it differently, but hey, that's ok

 

[Shadowsnog]

I understand your point. But I think the „out of game authorities“ did „playing the game“ in that, that they let the „ingame authorities“ react in a logical way and FD as the „Master of Ceremonies“ gave the players a chance to turn the rudder with ingame mechanics.

I do not deny the Intervention, but I don‘t think it is „inadmissable“.

If the game developer always intervenes in such a low-threshold way, even when the player base decided in an orchetrated way out of the game, to target something inside the game - whether this happened or not (and it would be ok, if), everything is fine.

One could perhaps say that FD is “playing the game” in their way with us. You might see it differently, but hey, that's ok

if your mental gymnastics skill is high enough you can justify anything.
but i dont really have any strong opinion on this, just making an observation and offering a pov...
ultimately it is fdevs game, they will do what they want with it.
the same way it is my client, my account, and i decide if the game is not something i want to play or support financially, right?

 

[Rubbernuke]

View attachment 417077

source: https://inara.cz/elite/starsystem/95625/

Isn't infrastructure failure supposed to be a random BGS event??

Brewers having a bit of a shocker today

 

[Tifu]

If the game developer always intervenes in such a low-threshold way, even when the player base decided in an orchetrated way out of the game, to target something inside the game - whether this happened or not (and it would be ok, if), everything is fine.

One could perhaps say that FD is “playing the game” in their way with us. You might see it differently, but hey, that's ok

In a sense, as in a DnD board game, FD is the dungeon master behind the NPC prime movers for this CG. Personally, it's totally in character for Brewer Logistics to extend the CG.

I can't imagine any possible boardroom scenario where the conclusion is that it's ok to give in to blackmail (ie. lockdown). That option makes the company look weak and even more vulnerable to more blackmail further on.

 

[Khyron Glaugg]

Complain complain complain. I'm starting to think the Thargoids were right about us.

 

[DB_Cooper]

Brewer Corporation have extended their deadline. They must really want that exploration data!

Good solution by FDev in my opinion.

There's a HazRES in the rings of the outermost planet in HIP 90578. That's the best place to rack up PvE Wanted ship kills to get that security status back up. A great time for lawful combat pilots to get stuck in!

Yeah but, I'm not about to risk all the data I collected getting blown up by a pirate...If there were a way to offload it fine but unfortunately there is not. No "data banks" you can store your info in. Probably very difficult to implement but still not risking it. I already screwed myself out of a CG reward with the Sol CG. Didn't realize I had to sign up for the CG separately..... That hurt. Yeah, you can get the drives with materials but the materials are difficult to get. Free would have been better.. So.. not risking this one.

 

[Ian Doncaster]

Isn't infrastructure failure supposed to be a random BGS event??

"Random" in this case just means "a bunch of BGS experts couldn't figure out the exact cause and gave up". It doesn't behave in any way like a random event, though.

I'm fairly sure it's just as deterministic and based on player input as the rest of the states - which is not to say that I know the exact causes either, but I'm not at all surprised to find one showing up on a faction which is under deliberate attack!

(Could have been Terrorism, which actively lowers the security slider on top of any player input, though...)

I've only seen one infrastructure failure event since PP 2.0 started so I did get the impression that it's kinda rare.

They're much less noticeable (though also more common) on secondary factions, so you may well have flown past a bunch without realising. "Supported" controlling factions tend to get Public Holiday or Pirate Attack states happening to them first, and all these "event" states are mutually exclusive.

As with any state they're more common in systems/factions which have a lot of player activity relative to their NPC population, which isn't most of them but certainly is a CG system with 1600 population.

 

[Tifu]

"Random" in this case just means "a bunch of BGS experts couldn't figure out the exact cause and gave up". It doesn't behave in any way like a random event, though.

I'm fairly sure it's just as deterministic and based on player input as the rest of the states -

I was afraid that would be the case. Found a circa 2020 post of yours on the same subject. It seems to fit this particular situation. Note that the former primary minor faction (Fatal Shadows) is also undergoing an outbreak.

source: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threads/infrastructure-failure-faction-state.555113/#post-8714579

 

[Shadowsnog]

"Random" in this case just means "a bunch of BGS experts couldn't figure out the exact cause and gave up". It doesn't behave in any way like a random event, though.

I'm fairly sure it's just as deterministic and based on player input as the rest of the states - which is not to say that I know the exact causes either, but I'm not at all surprised to find one showing up on a faction which is under deliberate attack!

(Could have been Terrorism, which actively lowers the security slider on top of any player input, though...)


They're much less noticeable (though also more common) on secondary factions, so you may well have flown past a bunch without realising. "Supported" controlling factions tend to get Public Holiday or Pirate Attack states happening to them first, and all these "event" states are mutually exclusive.

As with any state they're more common in systems/factions which have a lot of player activity relative to their NPC population, which isn't most of them but certainly is a CG system with 1600 population.

in my experience infrastructure failure can be somewhat reliably triggered by shutting down odyssey settlements and taking the power regulator.
but its not necessarily tied just to that and can happen under different circumstances(seemingly) randomly.

 

[Ashnak]

And who's asking for an all-powerful effect? I'm asking for the effects achieved to not be undone through manual intervention by FD.

I'm sort of in two minds about this. One the one hand, yes - FD set up the board and the rules once, they shouldn't go around and change the rules at a whim. On the other hand - the lockdown and the following CG extension resulted in the most engaging gameplay (and, guessing, also the highest simultaneous player numbers in one system) since I don't know when. I even met multiple CMDRs yesterday in Mobius.

 

[Ian Doncaster]

Note that the former primary minor faction (Fatal Shadows) is also undergoing an outbreak.

Yes - that'll probably be (mostly) from losing the recent control war for the system.

The higher activity also put a Public Holiday on one of the other secondary factions a few days back.

 

[Kryxix]

Yes - that'll probably be (mostly) from losing the recent control war for the system.

The higher activity also put a Public Holiday on one of the other secondary factions a few days back.

Redeem combat bonds to start an Outbreak (Dav's sheet). Outbreak has 3 days pending. So yes, a previous War may caused that.

 

[Rubbernuke]

"Random" in this case just means "a bunch of BGS experts couldn't figure out the exact cause and gave up".

Wizened BGS elders came to the conclusion its magic, Ian. The state is triggered once enough rares and fish are offered up to the sky gods for that Holy Tick.

 

[car]

Complain complain complain. I'm starting to think the Thargoids were right about us.

For what little it's worth, my complaint is cheerfully withdrawn. Being my first CG and my first foray into Live (not my usual Legacy) this has been a learning experience. I'm glad I was cautious enough to get 75% of my scan data in before the lockdown, but kicking myself for not knowing that I had to actually sign up for the CG or it wouldn't count as participation. Happily, I got the generous bump in payment without signup, which will help bootstrap my new CMDR nicely. Live and learn.

 

[Khyron Glaugg]

Well, it could have been worse. In past CG's there were much sexier rewards than a detailed surface scanner. Better to learn on this one. Hell, don't even need to do the CG to get this scanner.

 

[RikonGB]

Complain complain complain. I'm starting to think the Thargoids were right about us.

maybe it's the thargoids manipulating the system in the background as direct attack failed

 

[Jmanis]

I understand your point. But I think the „out of game authorities“ did „playing the game“ in that, that they let the „ingame authorities“ react in a logical way and FD as the „Master of Ceremonies“ gave the players a chance to turn the rudder with ingame mechanics.

I do not deny the Intervention, but I don‘t think it is „inadmissable“.

If the game developer always intervenes in such a low-threshold way, even when the player base decided in an orchetrated way out of the game, to target something inside the game - whether this happened or not (and it would be ok, if), everything is fine.

One could perhaps say that FD is “playing the game” in their way with us. You might see it differently, but hey, that's ok

The problem with that is it then creates an unpredictable experience despite mastery of a particular aspect of the game which, ultimately, is frustrating.

That sense of agency is very important for players... if you tell your players "the big bad is coming through this path at time X", and the players set an ambush, only to go "oh no, they changed their mind at the last minute and aren't coming now!", they're going to be annoyed.

Over 10 years of CGs, I've only ever seen the dates lengthen or shorten due to technical issues: bug prevented completion, goal set too short or long.... that's because there's no in game justification for these time limits; it's, among other things, a meta construct for FD to create a semi regular cadence for players to know when new activities will land in the game.

So for things to get messed with like this in a way that is impossibly unpredictable, regardless of any potential ingame explanation, is pretty infuriating... as opposed to the lockdown outright, which is very predictable.

Tl;dr we're all familiar with injury time... but that doesn't mean the ref can add 5 minutes "just because the game was going really well!".

 

[Rainbro]

Its nice that Frontier have tried to acknowledge the player impact in some way, but they also very clearly still prefer their scripted outcome and have acted to tip the scales. So we almost had a CG's outcome be affected by players, even if only very slightly, and then someone at Frontier probably got worried about backlash from those on the losing side and backed down.

In one sense, I get it. It would be nice if CGs had a bit more depth than just the Do X activity, if players also had to support the CG in other ways like, defending it against sabotage efforts. But that's not the reality. It is an extraordinary coincidence for one to be possible to affect. So people don't know they might need to try and support it, whatever the disclaimer says. And then people will get mad that they didn't stop the Lockdown state they didn't even know was possible, realistically.

On the other hand, that means Frontier are probably always going to be like this and we should be thankful that this time they bothered to acknowledge the impact before going "except, no, we still want the CG to be open on its last day" and changing it. They were just more subtle than previous attempts that ended with Frontier deleting the impact.

This could have been an opportunity to challenge that perception, as a CG that was basically finished anyway. Oh well.

 

[Uriel Gandil]

if your mental gymnastics skill is high enough you can justify anything.
but i dont really have any strong opinion on this, just making an observation and offering a pov...
ultimately it is fdevs game, they will do what they want with it.
the same way it is my client, my account, and i decide if the game is not something i want to play or support financially, right?

What I don't understand is that it is seen that fedvs reacting to the lockdown is not acceptable because of a supposedly absolute "in game rule" because it should only follow the logic of that internal game system. Yet, the CG is, from the get go, an intervention of the Fdevs and not and AI generated event by an internal system of the game. So the idea just does not really hold or would you contest that the CG itself, as an external intervention is not admissible ?

 

[Jmanis]

I'm confident stories like this exist regardless of whether someone supported the CG or worked against it, and it's the reason why ...

Nobody deserves to have things they've worked towards stripped away on a whim, regardless of whether they're supporting the cg or antagonising it.

Allowing a situation where the game blocks out players from the last day of an event is bad design.

Changing that outcome in a way that materially undoes part of the expected effect of the efforts put in to undermine a cg is likewise a bad decision.

The lockdown comes at the expense of one group, while changing the CG timeline is at the expense of another group. The only way to avoid that is better activity planning, because no one player archetype is more deserving than another.

EDIT: Quoted post was removed, so modified for more clarity.