COMPLETED CG Brewer Corporation Planetary Survey Initiative (Exploration)

[Jmanis]

It clearly isn't a design intention or a consideration that it would be, because the inverse isn't true, and if it was, then FDev wouldn't have extended the timer on it.

What do you mean the inverse isn't true? CG's impact the BGS all the time, including this one (and arguably, this CG caused this). CGs almost always flip otherwise stable systems on their heads.

It is true, and this is the whole point... FD shouldn't have extended the timer.

Notwithstanding, it's 100% a design consideration when that impact is literally written into the CG description.

Where's the gameplay mechanics to support Brewer Corporation? If the in game universe is a cutthroat as some of you want it to be, as your carte blanche to be disruptive towards others under the guise of "Emergent Gameplay", then factions setting out on these initiatives would have hired appropriate support material to ensure mission success, or been deployed under the major faction powers purview, or even had something as simple as major powers patrolling their space be a thing. But this isn't that type of game, it's not designed that way. You cannot only have a one way street of disruptive behavior, without counter designs in place.

Bounty hunting. Missions that support security operations. Trading weapons. Helping Brewer in the war. Plenty of stuff would have improved security. That was all available to anyone who wanted it. But nobody did.

But to call out your point more directly, FD usually do security/protection CGs alongside CGs for non-combat activities.

COMPLETED CG - Protect Deliveries to YZ Ceti (Bounty Hunting)

For the "i WiLl nOt bE yOuR cOnTeNt mObiUs SoLo oNLy gWeEfUr" crowd. Haven't been in inhabited space for two years. Decided to fire up the alt for a night of CG BH fun. Winged up with three random CMDR's, spent two hours in a hazrez and made 20mil. o7's all around and a great night. Gankers...

forums.frontier.co.uk

COMPLETED CG - Protect Deliveries to Muller Terminal (Bounty Hunting)

combat bonds from a CZ do not count. go to a haz rez and blast guys that are wanted I submitted combat bonds and bounty vouchers and none are applied to the contribution ammount Try reading this thread again. OK ... I am making progress. Thanks for your help.

forums.frontier.co.uk

COMPLETED CG - Protect Deliveries to the Laedla system (Bounty Hunting)

It doesn't seem like Laedla Empire Assembly controls any star systems. Suggestions as to where to go hunting? If there is a chance to earn a bounty, I think it is with these installations. Especially the Laedla Empire Assembly state in Gongalungul and Kuan Ti is war. Today, I actually saw it...

forums.frontier.co.uk

COMPLETED CG - Protect Deliveries to Senlu (Bounty Hunting)

Summary System: Senlu Station: Springer Gateway (Coriolis starport, large pads available, 287 Ls from main star, 44.96 Ly from Sol) Objective: Hand in Bounty Vouchers for Green Party of Senlu Time limit: 5th October 3309 @ 06:00 UTC Description Aegis has requested materials to construct...

forums.frontier.co.uk

COMPLETED CG - Protect Deliveries to Clement Orbital (Bounty Hunting)

Summary System: YZ Ceti Station: Clement Orbital (Coriolis starport, large pads available, 1,225 Ls from main star, 12.07 Ly from Sol) Objective: Hand in Bounty Vouchers Time limit: 9th May 3309 @ 05:00 UTC Description Aegis has requested materials in the YZ Ceti system to mass-produce a...

forums.frontier.co.uk

COMPLETED CG - Protect Deliveries to Tionisla (Bounty Hunting)

Summary System: Tionisla Station: Brett High (Orbis Starport, large pads available, 329 Ls from main star, 117.42 Ly from Sol) Objective: Hand in Bounty Vouchers for Alliance Rapid-reaction Corps Time limit: 7th December 3309 @ 06:00 UTC Description Councillor Nakato Kaine has requested...

forums.frontier.co.uk

COMPLETED CG - Protect Deliveries to Outfit Far God Megaships (Bounty Hunting)

Summary System: Panjabell Station: Moore Hub (Coriolis Starport, large pads available, 142 Ls from main star, 167.91 Ly from Sol) Objective: Hand in Bounty Vouchers Time limit: 29th July 3307 @ 06:00 UTC Description The Pleiades Concordat has requested deliveries to support the Far God cult in...

forums.frontier.co.uk

... which usually stabilise the security situation. So maybe FD deliberately didn't do that to allow this to happen? Of course, I'm being malicious in that statement, but the point remains... there were plenty of mechanics to support Brewer which nobody chose, and FD themselves didn't employ a protection CG.

Elite Dangerous is not Crusader Kings in space, contrary to wishful thinking, and the gameplay mechanics doesn't support that narrative, not even a little. They haven't for 10 years, so why would they do that now.

PP and Colonisation would suggest otherwise, but I'll also leave you to convince the entire community who've played the BGS since the days of Lugh that for the last 10 years, they've been playing it wrong.

 

[Rubbernuke]

there were plenty of mechanics to support Brewer which nobody chose, and FD themselves didn't employ a protection CG.

I'm going to be grumpy guy but say: ignorance of the game is no excuse, not given there is so much information about. There is nothing to stop people checking on the starmap, INARA etc to see what is going on in the target system and alter plans, or read up on what lockdown / states are and do. With FD going 'there there' and extending the deadline its not encouraging people to understand the game better. I'd have hoped that if FD had not changed the deadline it would act as a warning to CG entrants that nothing is certain- that rather than the BGS revolving around the CG that there are other factors in play beyond 'when and where'.

 

[oztrich]

I'm going to be grumpy guy but say: ignorance of the game is no excuse, not given there is so much information about. There is nothing to stop people checking on the starmap, INARA etc to see what is going on in the target system and alter plans, or read up on what lockdown / states are and do. With FD going 'there there' and extending the deadline its not encouraging people to understand the game better. I'd have hoped that if FD had not changed the deadline it would act as a warning to CG entrants that nothing is certain- that rather than the BGS revolving around the CG that there are other factors in play beyond 'when and where'.

It does feel like a missed opportunity, because things like this highlight that there is some actual DEPTH to the gameplay that many of us don't fully appreciate.

 

[Jmanis]

It does feel like a missed opportunity, because things like this highlight that there is some actual DEPTH to the gameplay that many of us don't fully appreciate.

Yeah, there's a whole other discussion about the under-employment of the mechanics leading to your average player having no idea about anything unless it was on a youtube get rich quick short. (As much as it sounds it, I'm not faulting those players at all here)

 

[Rubbernuke]

It does feel like a missed opportunity, because things like this highlight that there is some actual DEPTH to the gameplay that many of us don't fully appreciate.

Exactly. The BGS is not some neat tiled floor that just 'is'. If anything its a carpet with a trapdoor below it that a lot of people choose to ignore.

 

[Flossy]

As the Lockdown continues to be in force, please do not abandon the CG - you will still get your rewards when the CG ends!

 

[Rainbro]

Just wondering how long people are prepared to support the extensions for if the lockdown isn't lifted by the new deadline.
Another week? Two? Keep it going until people get bored?

I would be interested to see if Frontier keep extending it or just finally let it happen. Further extensions would be doubly funny because I bet there's several players taking advantage of the delay to further stockpile data in the hopes it gets lifted anyway. The CG reopening after a month only to immediately end because one person drops a gazillion points.

 

[XavierDC]

Explorers not making any progress ... will fdev god-hand it today to give them the weekend, or just leave it in the hope explorers can get organised at the weekend?
View attachment 417137

I checked 4 hours later than you and it seems it moved a bit:

Also i remembered this morning that D2EA had posted a build for Pirate Activity hunting (for material gathering in his case, but for pure BH it will work):

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvwMZbQawJY


It requires Power Play module, but now that they are quite accessible it could fit many commanders. I will build that and test it today.

 

[Aexrael]

Yeah, there's a whole other discussion about the under-employment of the mechanics leading to your average player having no idea about anything unless it was on a youtube get rich quick short. (As much as it sounds it, I'm not faulting those players at all here)

No, it isn't a whole other discussion, it is the discussion, and was the entire point you missed from my post outlined before.

You may be invested in third party tools and out of game knowledge, it doesn't change the fact that the game does not present any meaningful or tangible information to players in game, or have a support structure in place, to bring up dynamic gameplay elements that could steer anyone towards any supposed counter play for the situation the CG is in.

But to call out your point more directly, FD usually do security/protection CGs alongside CGs for non-combat activities.
... which usually stabilise the security situation. So maybe FD deliberately didn't do that to allow this to happen? Of course, I'm being malicious in that statement, but the point remains... there were plenty of mechanics to support Brewer which nobody chose, and FD themselves didn't employ a protection CG.

It does in fact sound like you fault the players, for not having foreknowledge of intricate systems that are at best vaguely detailed and at worst, poorly presented and explained. And anything outside direct action from the dev team is the only support pillar for interaction with the system, because the system on its own doesn't support this wish for dynamic gameplay, like I highlighted in the previous post.

 

[Kira Goto]

The CG reopening after a month only to immediately end because one person drops a gazillion points.

… I don’t think they’ll extend it past the date of colonization dropping anyway, because by then the CG has/would have served its purpose already.

So maybe FD deliberately didn't do that to allow this to happen?

I don’t believe it was intentional on their end, because this is just an exploration CG where people spend minimal time in the target system. It only is the trade ones that get the bounty hunting sides because it makes a certain amount of sense from within the game world. Although I guess you could’ve also said it would make some sense for Brewer to expect disruption by people who oppose a human colonization effort (for a variety of reasons - further antagonizing the Thargoids could be one, the “Humans just mess stuff up” crowd could be another and in the latter case more likely to choose radical means) and employ or request additional security… but it didn’t happen, so the thinking from Frontier probably was it simply wouldn’t be necessary. As it has been in the last exploration CG where we went poking ammonia worlds for Aegis. (At least I think that was the last one… it was also just a bit of narrative fluff unless we get more Titans or the existing ones rebuilt moving around inside of the Bubble)

… but then, in that one we just delivered the data to a faction already in control so there was no theoretical situation where they would have wanted to reclaim the system, unlike this one.

I guess you could write it off as Brewer directing the primary funding toward paying the explorers and only a pittance toward security, leaving them unprepared for the scenario of (coordinated) opposition because they weren’t expecting it.

 

[Jmanis]

You may be invested in third party tools and out of game knowledge,

I'm not.

it doesn't change the fact that the game does not present any meaningful or tangible information to players in game, or have a support structure in place, to bring up dynamic gameplay elements that could steer anyone towards any supposed counter play for the situation the CG is in.

Don't pretend I'm doing anything differently to any other player. I don't use any third-party plugins, and I only use Inara (or EDDB mostly in the past) to validate things I've assumed, but I might go to that site once a month..

I just learned the game, just like anyone else could, but doesn't.

It does in fact sound like you fault the players, for not having foreknowledge of intricate systems that are at best vaguely detailed and at worst, poorly presented and explained. And anything outside direct action from the dev team is the only support pillar for interaction with the system, because the system on its own doesn't support this wish for dynamic gameplay, like I highlighted in the previous post.

No, I don't fault the players at all because you're right, the in-game information is very poorly presented, and believe it or not that's by design. But it's all there, you just need to look. FD grossly under-utilise the mechanics available to them, and don't make the effects of the BGS more pronounced such that people recognise when things change. I'd go as far as to say people don't even realise things like "Famine" state causes food prices to rise dramatically despite how obvious that would seem... because who cares that you can net 2000cr profit on fruit and veg when a gold run in any state will get you more than double that. There's no need to learn these things anymore. The fact you can go through the universe and not have to think about the effect Civil Unrest, Pirate Attack, Investment or whatever might have on the system you're in is a big failure on FD's part.

So no, I don't fault the player, no matter how you want to read it.

You know how I learned how the BGS worked? I made guesses, played the game, did things, and watched the effect. Nothing more.... and that was at a time when the BGS was far less instrumented than it is today. Personally, I put more faith in the average player that they could work out on their own that things like crime degrade security and bounty hunting increase it... which is why I'm always surprised when this sort of thing upsets people.

So please, don't form some straw-man about me to satisfy your own arguments and pretend I somehow "missed your point". Players don't explore the mechanics anymore. They don't experiment. They jump onto Reddit and ask "What's the fastest way to make money?" or "Quickest way to get through the engineering guide?" or "Anyone got a link to Road to Riches?"... and the answers to those questions require no understanding of things like BGS states (unless you're a miner).... on top of that, FD has trodden antagonistic gameplay into the dirt so hard you rarely see negative states anymore, unless someone undertakes concerted, concentrated action, which is what a CG fosters, you probably don't see that anyway.

None of that is the player fault, and I'll gladly throw FD under the bus for that. But that doesn't mean you can pretend the players who do understand the mechanics have some sort of superpowers that let them peer beyond the veil into the games mechanics, and use that as a lynchpin to cry "foul play".

You know how learn more about PvP? You do PvP. You know how you learn more about BGS states? You interact with BGS states. But the game doesn't promote the latter anymore. That's not the fault of players at all. But every player involved in this CG and experiencing what's going on now should be going "Ah, ok, so Lockdown can really mess things up. Guess I gotta plan for that next time"... just like you would if you got smashed by a tactic you hadn't seen in PvP.

What would you rather me do? Grab the MIB pen and forget how to play?

I don’t believe it was intentional on their end,

Yeah like I said, that was malicious on my part.

 

[Tifu]

I've become a great fan of the Krait Phantom as a multipurpose bounty hunter. Deeply impressed by it's speed and handling for one and it's jump range is pretty good for a ship of this class.

Despite it's missing that third C3 hard point and the ability to have a fighter hangar that the Krait MK2 has, it's proving to be a deadly pirate hunter though I'm avoiding the Pirate Signal spots as these require teams of highly engineered ships.

Incidentally the FD webstore carries the Phantom's tactical black, vibrant red and vibrant purple for just 1,600 ARX each. For some reason these aren't available in the in-game store.

Looking forward to firing some fireworks once the CG is freed from lockdown

 

[Surprize960]

Despite it's missing that third C3 hard point and the ability to have a fighter hangar that the Krait MK2 has, it's proving to be a deadly pirate hunter though I'm avoiding the Pirate Signal spots as these require teams of highly engineered ships.

Indeed, the Class 7 Distributor with „only“ 4 guns makes the difference!

 

[Brrokk]

I admit to some mixed motivations. I already got into top 25% and now I'm back with more exploration data but... it's not in my interest to lift the lockdown. If it gets lifted, the only real possibility of change is that I'll be pushed out of the 25%. I could regain my position by handing in the rest of my data, but if I don't have to do that I can get more for the data from LYR later. I don't see much prospect that the CG will complete the last tier, so it seems best for me to sit on my hands and watch to see whether I need to hand in at the last minute. How mercenary.

 

[Libluini]

I'm taking this as just business as usual in a space sim game. For comparison, when this CG started NMS dropped a new patch and one of the effects was that the ocean switched off on the planet I was on, making it impossible to finish the quest I was running.

Player action accidentally extending an event for another week is not so bad, compared to that. Not as funny as having your submarine suddenly fall on your head, but also not as infuriating. Heh.

Anyway, I'm continuing to collect some explo-data on my bubble alt while this lockdown is continuing. The way the 25%-cut off was raising, I had a good chance at staying there. Now? Well, a lot of less-obsessive players probably got discouraged, and only the truly maniacal will now remain to drop big huge amounts of data the moment the lockdown ends.

Of course, people thinking the lockdown saved their position will then probably have a bad day of being corrected. They may have been right if the event had ended, but Frontier clearly wanted player participation to continue, and now we're in the weird position who people will fall out of the 25%-range because of the lockdown.

 

[Shadowsnog]

I admit to some mixed motivations. I already got into top 25% and now I'm back with more exploration data but... it's not in my interest to lift the lockdown. If it gets lifted, the only real possibility of change is that I'll be pushed out of the 25%. I could regain my position by handing in the rest of my data, but if I don't have to do that I can get more for the data from LYR later. I don't see much prospect that the CG will complete the last tier, so it seems best for me to sit on my hands and watch to see whether I need to hand in at the last minute. How mercenary.

a good point and good insight on why there should be security cgs accompanying non-combat cgs. people will find features to minmax and (ab)use to extend their lead even at the cost of other commanders.* id say that hopefully fdev will take the lesson and act better in the future but im tired of repeating it every few months.

* no offense meant. just an observation. im perfectly fine with using whatever legitimate ingame mechanics to keep your edge. it is supposed to be a cutthroat galaxy...

 

[Cmdr Beachy]

Clocked up another 8M in brewer bounties tonight (slightly nervously as I still have a wadge of exploration data). I'm in the naieve camp; didn't read/understand the fine print and had no idea player factions could have prevented me handing things in so I came back and was rather suprised.

That said, I think a pretty decent (and sensible narrative) would have been for the carrier in question to jump to another system and kept the original deadline would have been a better narrative.

Ce la vi - I'll probably end up making more in bounties than I would have from the original CG but it's fun to be part of the ongoing struggles and if I'm allowed to check in my data before the deadline all the better.

 

[Jmanis]

I've become a great fan of the Krait Phantom as a multipurpose bounty hunter. Deeply impressed by it's speed and handling for one and it's jump range is pretty good for a ship of this class.

Despite it's missing that third C3 hard point and the ability to have a fighter hangar that the Krait MK2 has, it's proving to be a deadly pirate hunter though I'm avoiding the Pirate Signal spots as these require teams of highly engineered ships.

Incidentally the FD webstore carries the Phantom's tactical black, vibrant red and vibrant purple for just 1,600 ARX each. For some reason these aren't available in the in-game store.

Looking forward to firing some fireworks once the CG is freed from lockdown

Care to share a build? A decent fit for the phantom has always eluded me.

 

[V'larr]

I checked 4 hours later than you and it seems it moved a bit:
View attachment 417150

Also i remembered this morning that D2EA had posted a build for Pirate Activity hunting (for material gathering in his case, but for pure BH it will work):

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvwMZbQawJY


It requires Power Play module, but now that they are quite accessible it could fit many commanders. I will build that and test it today.

Regular PSA to take D2EA's builds/advice with heavy helpings of salt, a lot of his conclusions including about his own shield-analysis tool are highly mistaken and should not be trusted... of course, with engineering, you can get away with all manner of discrepancies, but there's a reason Elite youtubers have a reputation that induces high skepticism from experienced players in the community.

Better to learn builds & game mechanics to make your own informed choices than trust the youtubers, is what I'm saying.

 

[Straha Yeagar]

I admit to some mixed motivations. I already got into top 25% and now I'm back with more exploration data but... it's not in my interest to lift the lockdown. If it gets lifted, the only real possibility of change is that I'll be pushed out of the 25%. I could regain my position by handing in the rest of my data, but if I don't have to do that I can get more for the data from LYR later. I don't see much prospect that the CG will complete the last tier, so it seems best for me to sit on my hands and watch to see whether I need to hand in at the last minute. How mercenary.

The payout for exploration data in the CG is 4x normal, so twice the maximum LYR bonus. The bonus does not show on the sell screens, but the credits do show up in the account.