Calling on the community to play in Open Play

[Connatic]

(Note to the OP: change your font color in the OP: too much is obsured and hard to read.)

Back to the point of the OP and this thread, it's really really really really really simple: In Open mode, there is too much risk/pain/cost and not enough reward to balance against that. It's a balance issue that revolves largely, but not completely, around two things that are entirely under FD's control (not player control):

A. Repair costs for larger ships are insane.

This could also make Larger ships better Pirate ships as well, making Mass Locking a little easier. I support this but it probably isn't what you are talking about
With how easy and profitable Trading is, I still think the Pirate takes all the risk. Even if the Pirate messes up or kills you, the Pirate is still losing money in this environment. It takes me 4+ hours to make the same amount of cash Pirating(NPCs or CMDRs) in my Cobra, than I can in my Type-6 in about 30min doing two jump trade routes. If traders were struggling as much as the other roles in this game I could understand the risk/pain argument, but that is just not true. Trading is easy, most profitable, and is the one role that can opt-in to super easy mode that is Solo mode. I don't mean this to be a carebear insult, I'm just saying, it's the only profession that gets special benefits by doing solo play.

* Or (and) you could have a simple mechanic in Open mode only, whereby IF you are interdicted by a real player AND you escape, you earn 200,000 cr. Not only that, but the 200,000 cr is actually deducted from the other player! If they don't actually have 200,000 to lose, then at the very least they are busted back to a Sidewinder and 1000 cr, and you still get your +200,000 cr anyway. Then sweeten the pot even further by making that number 400,000 cr if you actually fight and kill the interdicting player pirate.

Like I said previously, the risk-reward against the Pirate is already great enough. If you do shake off the interdiction, the Pirate has a chance of taking damage, and you most likely will get away. Risking a 200,000 "Interdiction Failure" for a chance to get 10-50k worth of stolen goods is a joke. If the Trader desides to make a run for the station instead of jumping out of system, and keeps suffering "Interdiction Spam", that is partially the traders fault. But I also believe that Frontier should figure out a way to add an extra assault bounty for mass interdictions, because that is obviously a hostile act at that point.

NPCs provide all the risk a lot of us want. Proven by how big and how fast private groups are growning (Mobius is what, 2000ish players now)

The thing is, people play games to relax

I can understand that. There are a lot of people playing Elite that don't what a hard game in any respect. They just enjoy the simulation and really just want to be a Space Trucker. I'm pretty sure this is the camp that clamored the loudest about NPC interdiction being to frequent in Beta/Gamma. There isn't much that we could do to open play to attract players like that, and that's fine.

having someone turn up, disable you for no reason (no comms, doesn't ask for or take any cargo) and whiz off again - that is not relaxing for most people

...and this issue is the one we need to fix, for those that are on the fence about Open play. Those that do want the challenge and trill of CMDRs taking the place of some of the NPCs out there, but don't want to be bullied. Frontier just needs to create more harsher fines for tactics like these so at the very least, griefing costs a lot more money. Currently the fine for Hauling stolen goods is higher than murdering a CMDR! That is just crazy! Plus with how easy it is for CMDRs to get away after an interdiction attempt, good pirates are encouraged to take out Drives as fast as possible to give them a chance to steal cargo, which currently worse than murder since the Pirate won't get fined for that. Something needs to be addressed there as well.

They MUST be separate. There is no reasonable justification to have a God mode implemented. You want to spend your entire bank account on one giant cargo hold of platinum? Better be prepared to deal with a pirate Commander, or deal with the loss. As it is now, 90% of players would just switch over to being invulnerable.

Even though it has to stay the way it is at the moment, I do agree. People will use solo mode as easy mode to make cash, then take that into Open play to be a jerk. I don't know why two separate accounts wasn't implemented from the beginning. This wouldn't affect the people who prefer Solo/Group mode anyways and in the end will just give more power to Griefers and making Open play even less appealing.

But this is how the game was setup, and we have to deal with it. The only thing we can do now is create more in game punishments for CMDRs just trying to be jerks/mass murders in Open play. That way the thrill comes from the challenge, not the fear of being bullied. I really think what will make this game great is emergent game play between other players, not people playing them by themselves watching spreadsheet numbers.

 

[wombat778]

I have no interest whatsoever in playing open. I do not play any multiplayer games as I generally find them uninteresting and unimmersive. What I enjoy and appreciate about games is the simulation and AI aspect...how a game designer can create a living, breathing world using nothing but programming to drive it. I find artistry in the programming of a good offline game. In contrast, multiplayer games feel to me like a contrived experience reliant on players to provide the content...basically a chatroom with props. Frankly, I am not thrilled that in solo ED is so reliant on the server-side and would far have preferred a complete offline game.

 

[Leafcutter]

I play in Solo mode.

When I play MMO games, it's the impact the player's have on the economy, politics and security of a game area or entity that I find interesting, not having to deal with an unpredictable 12 year old who wants to destroy everything... ED accommodates this need for me.

When I played Eve for years, I had more than enough adrenaline rushes for my middle aged heart for a lifetime thanks very much.

Unfortunately, it seems at the moment that the player base is not having much impact on the game world.... markets reset regardless of player activity and no influence earned or lost is represented in a system's current political struggle... shame really... like mentioned in other posts... rather a shell of a game at the moment.

I enjoy learning these well presented and polished mechanics though and hope in time that complexity and real player consequence is added to the environment... maybe I will play open play when this happens

-LC-

 

[Thebadmf]

The open/solo system is fine as it is. Stop whining and let it go. It's gotten real old, real fast.

 

[Jockey79]

Thats not true, I have a sidewinder and have no interest in combat at the present time

I get what you were trying to do, but the person you're answering sums up public opinion of open play and the main reason "play in open" threads have come up for months and months (I've been around
since October 2014), you can do group / social things in this game, you don't have to be out in the open to do it. The threads I've mentioned prove what Marikc0 says.

I do applaud you for trying, but until people are stopped from being able to grief others open will become more and more sparse.

Your welcome to join my friends and I, we tend to use Aiabiko as a home base and meeting place, then go off from there on trade runs / NPC pirating runs (loving those 3xType 9s atm) or bounty hunt at Nav points together around that area.

 

[DaveB]

My response to OPs update:

1: No. Folks calling for insurance to be modified are just not getting their heads around playing the game according to its rules. They may not like it but that IS the "rules of the game". It's like they are objecting to losing a chess game because it's somehow "not fair" that knights can jump other pieces.

2: Stations are fine. Outposts not so much, particularly if you're flying something that needs a medium sized pad. However, again that's part of the game dynamics that you figure into your play style. If you're getting frustrated with queues at an outpost or station go somewhere else to play. It's a big galaxy.

3: This is an old argument and has been done to death. This change is never going to happen.

4: I think you're right, this will be tweaked on an ongoing basis.

5: Based on an entirely false premise. Not going there.

6: No. Player controlled factions, player control of territory have both been explicitly ruled out by FD. This is a mechanic they said right from the start that they didn't want in Elite and would not implement.

7: No arenas in Elite.

8: "Fines for griefing"????? what are those? you get fines/bounties for committing in-game crimes. PvP is not griefing, nor is psycho PK-ing although it's understandable that some folks see the at behaviour of the latter as straying into the territory. Griefing for real does not necessarily collect in-game penalties, real griefing is the stuff FD will be banning folks for.

9: Don't want your expensive hull damaged? Don't interdict folks or if interdicted, submit. This dynamic encourages the folks with big expensive hulls not to bother interdicting the sideys that can afford to repair damage from the emergency drop. If you're piloting a battlewagon, confine your attentions to other large hulls who are more likely to submit to interdiction to preserve their hull - that way they preserve yours too. Of course if the easily-repaired viper you're tracking has a big enough bounty on them to cover your likely repair costs and then some, fill your boots and go for it. Little ships interdicting big ones? Good luck with that. You can't effectively mass-lock them so they'll submit and 14 seconds later be back in SC.

10: Yes the netcode needs tweaking. We all know this and it's an ongoing effort at FD.

11: Agreed. Improvements to the chat system are a must. Just please, for the sake of Cthulhu, NO "global universe-wide chat"

 

[kurush]

The open/solo system is fine as it is. Stop whining and let it go. It's gotten real old, real fast.

It will probably never stop, so many people grew up on the MMO games I, personally, hate that they will keep coming and whining.

 

[GJ51]

There's basically nothing wrong with Solo or Open Play and all players should be able to choose how they want to play. The problem is that players can switch in and out at will with each mode affecting the other. What a player does should stay in each mode and not affect the other mode. I, like many others, used Solo mode to learn the basics and configure my controllers. I then went to Open mode, and didn't see a great difference, What I think is not good for the environment is to be able to jump back and forth to minimize risk. If you've done nothing more than earn an Eagle or a Hauler in Solo, that's where you should be when you return to that mode. When you shift to Open mode you should only see what you've earned there. Essentially, they should be separate accounts.

 

[DoneWithFD]

I have no interest whatsoever in playing open. I do not play any multiplayer games as I generally find them uninteresting and unimmersive. What I enjoy and appreciate about games is the simulation and AI aspect...how a game designer can create a living, breathing world using nothing but programming to drive it. I find artistry in the programming of a good offline game. In contrast, multiplayer games feel to me like a contrived experience reliant on players to provide the content...basically a chatroom with props. Frankly, I am not thrilled that in solo ED is so reliant on the server-side and would far have preferred a complete offline game.

I wholeheartedly agree.

 

[Connatic]

It will probably never stop, so many people grew up on the MMO games I, personally, hate that they will keep coming and whining.

There's basically nothing wrong with Solo or Open Play and all players should be able to choose how they want to play. The problem is that players can switch in and out at will with each mode affecting the other

This is really the true key. I have no idea why Solo players need access to the mode they say they hate :-/
In the end it just makes Open play worse, but again, not much we can do about it now.

 

[CMDR Bansidhe]

No Ganking?, you should read the "Newcomers thread".

As a newcomer (been playing since Friday) I have read the first 10 pages of the Newcomer's Forum. I didn't see one tale of ganking or even one tale of a PVP death (that wasn't appreciated).

What I did read a lot of is people complaining that group play is all but impossible with the game in its current state. If forming gangs is so hard then how are people able to gang-kill others? You do know that ganking is just a contraction of "gang-killing", yes?

It seems to me that the rumours of non-consensual PVP are greatly exagerrated. Even those in this thread that mention it do so as hearsay. They themselves haven't experienced it "but if you read the forums it's full of it". Only they aren't. Or at least the Frontier Forum isn't. Are you guys sure you aren't mixing this place up with C&P over at the EvE Online Forum?

 

[kurush]

[/COLOR]This is really the true key. I have no idea why Solo players need access to the mode they say they hate :-/
In the end it just makes Open play worse, but again, not much we can do about it now.

Oh, I love solo mode now ( see my signature ) And it is your problem, not mine What's better than the solo mode? Open mode with raging but helpless PvPers

 

[Tuzmaal]

After Dabba convinced me that Open Play is like that:



I`m hideing in fear in Solo Mode

 

[Wicz]

[/COLOR]This is really the true key. I have no idea why Solo players need access to the mode they say they hate :-/
In the end it just makes Open play worse, but again, not much we can do about it now.

I see, and what about players who like playing all three modes at their leisure?

The game was designed to allow players to choose, and that's what I'm going to continue doing.

 

[Dabba]

[/COLOR]This is really the true key. I have no idea why Solo players need access to the mode they say they hate :-/
In the end it just makes Open play worse, but again, not much we can do about it now.

Personally I don't care if they do separate the saves, it will have no impact on the way I play, but I think it might be a case of "Be careful what you wish for, you might just get it." because I believe if they forced people to choose, then Open is going to end up being even more sparsely populated than it already is, and I suspect Frontier knows that very well which is exactly why they made it the way they did.

 

[Connatic]

Oh, I love solo mode now ( see my signature ) And it is your problem, not mine What's better than the solo mode? Open mode with raging but helpless PvPers

That's the whole point. Griefers use solo mode to make cash, then blow it all in Open to be a jerk. If you love Solo so much, would you care if you had to make a Solo only account? It seems like the option to switch back and forth only benefits exploity griefing behavior.

 

[Dabba]

After Dabba convinced me that Open Play is like that

I have no idea why you keep referencing me in your posts. Ive never done anything to convince anyone that there was a problem. The whole system seems fine to me just the way it is.

 

[Jigsaw]

I don't care for Open Play. Never have, never will.

I play games to enjoy a respite from the continuous social interaction that our overpopulated world forces on us. The last thing I want to do while playing games like Elite is having contact with even more people than I already have in everyday life. While I appreciate what you are trying to do, I respectfully decline and stick to Solo mode, thank you very much.

The only exception: playing with a couple of friends in Group mode once in a while, which is also kinda pointless, because there is nothing to do in the game that is tailored for groups of players.

 

[Connatic]

Personally I don't care if they do separate the saves, it will have no impact on the way I play, but I think it might be a case of "Be careful what you wish for, you might just get it." because I believe if they forced people to choose, then Open is going to end up being even more sparsely populated than it already is, and I suspect Frontier knows that very well which is exactly why they made it the way they did.

You would have to assume then the majority of players only use Solo mode as a safety net, be it greifer or carebear. not because they prefer the experience of solo play. I'd like to think that's not the case. I would like to think people would just make two accounts and play both, and Open play would see less griefing because consequences will matter more, and not just a huge drop in Open play numbers.

...but in the end, this is why I will advocate more Open mode fixes, and not some drastic change in Solo verses Open play accounts. It's too late to make a drastic change I think. Lets worry about fixing the negatives of Open play without touching the way Solo works.

 

[TUXER]

You would have to assume then the majority of players only use Solo mode as a safety net, be it greifer or carebear. not because they prefer the experience of solo play. I'd like to think that's not the case. I would like to think people would just make two accounts and play both, and Open play would see less griefing because consequences will matter more, and not just a huge drop in Open play numbers.

...but in the end, this is why I will advocate more Open mode fixes, and not some drastic change in Solo verses Open play accounts. It's too late to make a drastic change I think. Lets worry about fixing the negatives of Open play without touching the way Solo works.

I cant speak for everyone but I can say I don't play open play because I do not like playing games with strangers...period.