Yeah, its what kills PP for me most (although not the only issue). You're effectively limited to the same basic activities over and over and over again. Without end. And if you want to be efficient, you haul and haul and haul (unless your power doesn't have a haul mechanic, then its just do something else over and over and over again).
Modes Can we get more players into Open Play?
Yeah, its what kills PP for me most (although not the only issue). You're effectively limited to the same basic activities over and over and over again. Without end. And if you want to be efficient, you haul and haul and haul (unless your power doesn't have a haul mechanic, then its just do something else over and over and over again).
And there we have it at last.
The word *force*.
Glad we got there in the end.
Now here's the thing with PP and PvP.
PP depends mostly on moving around PvE tokens. However, there is also an element of consensual PvP that *may* be pursued.
And that's the whole point. If *you* want some consensual PvP, *you* just have to wait to encounter someone else who *ALSO* wants to engage in consensual PvP. It really is rather simple and doesn't take much in the way of analysis.
Now let's take a look at what it appears that you *actually* want:
It appears that you actually want everyone who moves the PvE tokens around to also be available for direct pew-pew.
Analyse:
If, as you imply, that there are countless players pursuing PP by moving the tokens around in Solo or PG, then it is clear that they do not *want* to engage in PvP.
What do you think might happen if you get your way and PP token-moving is restricted only to Open (or perhaps given a bonus? or perhaps token counts be adjusted in some way proportionally between Open and PG?Solo???))
My conclusion is that from the sum total of the players who engage in PP but who also do not want direct PvP combat, well, my analysis is that a whole heap of them would just not do PP any more. Maybe, just maybe, you are on the right track for *consensual* PvP. Maybe not. But the whole idea that consensual PvP is available in PP and yet it isn't being used as a mechanism for consensual PvP tells me a great deal of information.
Firstly, there are more players than you ever realise that do not want to engage in direct PvP combat, for whatever reason, even a reason that was put in the game to encourage direct PvP combat. It hasn't worked to encourage.
Secondly, the fact that "many, many" players are avoiding direct PvP (if we are to believe the PvP fans who tell us "many, many" players are engaging in PP activity?), that tells me that they aren't as interested in direct PvP as the direct PvP fans would like to believe.
Thirdly, any move to restrict PG or Solo PP effects, will simply drastically reduce the number of players who engage in PP. It won't get any more into Open. If they *wanted* direct PvP, they would be there anyway to be engaged.
Fourth, this tells me that engaging in moving PvE tokens around is vastly more entertaining to those people. But I knew that already. As it is probable, so did you, but are simply reluctant and frustrated to admit.
Fifth, this strongly confirms to me that the players who are calling for restrictions on PP, all they really want is easy targets. You already know that players aren't interested in direct PvP, because they are using modes to choose not to engage in it.
Sixth, the end fact is that even restricting PP to Open, this won't get any more direct PvP. None. Zip. Nada. All that will happen is the death of PP as a "medium-scale" pursuit. Players will either leave the game or they will look at other facets of the game in which to play, while *still* remaining in PG or Solo mode.
Finally, this is the reap-what-you-sow moment.
Let me tell you that I've been engaging in the rares CGs fro the last week. I've been doing this ONLY in Open. My god, it is true. Open is DEAD. Well, it *is* between 0530 and 0645 UK time. I've seen very, very few CMDRs, maybe 2 or 3, that haven't been flying in wings of combat-optimised FdLs or FGSs and just trying to destroy other CMDRs exiting George Lucas, LEESTI. A pair of them attacked me while I boosted out to High Wake this morning. No drama. Bye bye before even my 2nd ring of shields went down. Flying in a straight line in my ASP with me just face-palming at the tedious nature of that gameplay. Just tedious.
REAP WHAT YOU SOW.
REAP WHAT YOU SOW.
In other words, if the change to PP that you so desperately desire were embodied, it would simply kill another part of the game, because few players actually want PvP.
Those types of players who are camping at Geore Lucas have killed any game of PvP within Elite. Stone dead. Even if it *could* have been the game you want to change it into, Elite: Dangerous will now never be that game. The community has voted with the Mode buttons and the clock simply cannot be turned back.
Frontier are acutely aware of this. They can analyse just as well as I can, and obviously analyse way, way better than the clever PvP combateers.
They *know* that if they changed the game to "favour" PvP combateers, then the player-base will simply diminish rapidly and they know that if that were to occur, it would be an irreversible crunch to future revenue.
None of this makes me very happy. I'm actually feeling sad that PvP and PvE cannot live side-by-side in the Elite: Dangerous galaxy. I feel pity that it was the actions of PvP players that precipitated the demise of PvP in this game world. Any player who isn't happy with the game will simply leave. And that is a sad thought, because less players of *any* particular leaning will hurt sales and future development. Pretty sad all around, really.
Yours Aye
Mark H
More complaints of actual PP players.
https://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDange...play_imperials_and_grom_fight_with_no_honour/
Read the comments as well
https://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDange...play_imperials_and_grom_fight_with_no_honour/
Read the comments as well
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You know, they can do exactly the same. They can put their haulers in PG while their PvPers remain in Open. If their haulers want to fly in open, that's their choice... presumably they do it for the open experience, but nobody is forcing them to.
Read all 45 of them. 90s posted 4 times, so you have 41 unique people in the thread.
There is 90 unique people who prefer the system as it is in this thread alone.
I'll let you count these;
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/misc.php?do=whoposted&t=90583
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/misc.php?do=whoposted&t=145309
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/misc.php?do=whoposted&t=169599
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/misc.php?do=whoposted&t=216887
And don't forget to cross reference with;
https://elitepve.com/
As I know there is some overlap between the 40,000 members there and the 35,000+ comments on the 4 threads listed above.
I can play the numbers game all day
Newsflash! Man finds complaint on internet!
What is this I hear? People complaining their haulers are shot down in open? Hunt other commanders I say. Working as intended.
What is this I hear? People complaining other people's haulers are hauling in PG? Blaze your own trail I say. Don't run to mammie Frontier you entitled little snowflakes
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verminstar
Banned
Reddit is a well known salt mine where most the pvp players go to share in the mass whine fest against everything and everyone not playing the game their way. Using that as a comparison is just desperate because very few here Ill wager probably couldnt care less what they cry about. Thats the reap what ye sow phenomenon again...because so much salt and scorn and insults have been used in the past, they now face a hostile audience who they cannot win over who is relishing the chance to return the favour and put the boot in while yer down.
One does notice however the numbers...even on reddit compared to official forums, the pvprs are still in a tiny majority in comparison. When has frontier ever been remotely interested in the opinions of the minority?
Ok no wait, on reflection using frontier as an example probably doesnt make sense, but ye get the idea. Frankly Im amazed this is still going on at all and ye havent come to the realization that its a pointless, circular argument ye will never win...I applaud yer enthusiasm ^
Thats the entire problem and why PP is what it is, its not about going to separate PGs and grinding from there, if everyone hiding in their spots, there wont be anything to hide from.
Read all 45 of them. 90s posted 4 times, so you have 41 unique people in the thread.
There is 90 unique people who prefer the system as it is in this thread alone.
I'll let you count these;
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/misc.php?do=whoposted&t=90583
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/misc.php?do=whoposted&t=145309
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/misc.php?do=whoposted&t=169599
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/misc.php?do=whoposted&t=216887
And don't forget to cross reference with;
https://elitepve.com/
As I know there is some overlap between the 40,000 members there and the 35,000+ comments on the 4 threads listed above.
I can play the numbers game all day
And what? PP is almost dead, multiplayer content doesnt exist, besides 40k is not 1.5 million active players, its a small minority.
A minority that holds back this game from developing proper content.
Only FDEV know for sure with their easy access to the metrics. We can only infer what they know from their actions, for example the way they largely ignore PVP and have openly referred to PVP'ers as a loud minority indicates that perhaps it's not popular enough to be worth spending time effort or resources on.
Good thing you reminded me of my weekly meeting with Frontier. Item on the agenda every week: improper content.
So, the PvEers are a minority, and the PvPers are a minority of a minority... so who are the majority? :O
And the quoted part is just your opinion. Proper content is entirely subjective. What you mean by proper content i assume is full on PvP action where every moment is heart pounding action, whereas some people think proper content is things like mining upgrades, exploration upgrades, and anything that allows them to pootle around in their ships doing what they want.
Its all down to what sort of game is being made. If FD are trying to make a game that appeals to hardcore PvPers, then yeah, they are failing badly. But, and i might be going out on a limb here, but i don't think they are trying to make that sort of game. I think a clue might come from the fact that the game is heavily focused on PvE.
verminstar
Banned
Do ye have quotes to back that up? And multiplayer content does exist...we just play in a different mode is all. Content fer pvp is players...without players there is no content and thats yer issue right there.
Question...when was the last time anyone just asked nicely and use the word please and mean it? Now compare that to the last time it was insults and accusations and compare the results...see a pattern emerging perhaps?
No you guys dont have to ask nicely...then again we dont have to play open either and you cant force us out even though I suspect nothing would make you happier. So we can keep going round and round or we can at least try and act like a grown up and excercise a little more self control?
Or is that just too much to hope for hmm? Because yer never gonna win any ground with this argument...really...yer not because even where frontier to mess with the modes, it would just mean less people participating in pp in any mode. All yer doing is cutting yer nose off to spite yer face in the end ^
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
Personal definitions of "proper" vary.
As to minority - who are the minority you refer to?
Just a thought about that thread, notice how the OP isn't complaining about the haulers that are working for his power in PG/Solo? He's trying to present the opinion that he can speak for every single person working for his chosen power. In reality the people he can speak for is probably only a minority of the total number of people doing powerplay for that power. Likewise, he cannot be sure there are not people flying for other powers in Open due to timezones, instancing, platforms, etc.
Overall, its a very select viewpoint of the situation.
Wouldn't surprise me if there aren't some Grom or imperial players who are thinking that all Fed players are hiding in PG/Solo while they are in open.
Lets see, what numbers do you know;
How many people play PP? - Nope, you've not a clue if PP is thriving or not, as you don't know who plays it in Solo / PG
Active players? - Nope, you've not idea how many people play the game. Only number FD gave out was 2.4 million copies sold.
I seem to find multiplayer content in game with my friends, so multiplay does exist.
40K PvE players is way higher than your 41 PvP moaners or 90s 273 comments. PvP is the minority.
So there is a grand total of 0% of your post that is true.
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40K out of 2.4 mill player base (make it 1 mil of active players), assuming all 40K are active in the game, still makes this group a minority.
The rest are divided between solo and open, unless you are claiming that solo has more then 900K players, open is dominating the player base anyway.
Sure not many PVP, but PVPiers have the most impact on the community, everybody know SDC and HP, the forums are populated with whailing about being slaughtered, you are terrified of Open, we are free to go to any modes.
I dont need any numbers to know that PP is used for modules, this forum is highly biased towards PG, so you start arguing semantics, there are other sources and I brought few examples already that hold the same opinion, I can guarantee to you that majority of PP players would want it to be done in Open only.
I am not sure what multiplayer you are playing, but if racing or killing lame npcs in a wing is your definition of multiplayer, than consider yourself lucky, some of us would like to have more engaging game-play experience which actually require skills and is a bit more complex than just doing the same mundane activity over and over with zero progression.
You mean there aren't and cannot be any other groups than Mobius? That is news to me. Care to elaborate on this sudden change in the system? I was under impression you could create your own group if you wanted to play just with 3-4 buddies for example.
Or are you just going to make wild assumption that Mobius is 100% of PG?
And if Open is dominating in terms of numbers, why are you here complaining? If Open is so full of people we happy few in solo and PG cannot even hope to have effect on the huge masses of Open players. Your argument does not hold water! If PP in Open struggles because of PP players in PG and solo, it just means that PP players in open are so small group that their actions are irrelevant. Or that open players have not grasped HOW to play PP. Or BGS for that matter
And you think that trying to make the Open appear even less appealing is somehow a good thing to do? You complain about people not being in open but praise activities which are driving people out of it.
Your guarantee is worth as much as my guarantee that majority of PP players would want it to be done anywhere but open only.
Evidence, I want that. Not your personal, unfounded guarantees.
But Open players are dominating! With so massive, dominating numbers how is it possible that you and your buddies in Code and whatnot cannot create that engaging game-play in Open?
The forums are full of wailing about not enough players in Open as well.
Irony 1: Witness the title of this very thread.
Irony 2: Everybody knows Mobius. Everybody knows Canonn. Rate Mobius and Canonn infamy against infamy of SDC and HP (who are HP by the way??? Not familiar myself). I'll add Code to your list of well known PvP legends, though to add balance to your argument.
Irony 3: It appears to be a well seated suspicion amongst PvP enthusiasts that Mobius PG is somehow - in part - responsible for the demise of CMDRs in Open. Witness this very thread title.
No.
No you can't.
Apparently there are tsunamis of players engaged in PP using both Solo and PG modes. Or so says the PvP enthusiasts, witness this very thread. So how come you can guarantee what the majority want when it has been implied that the majority are flying elsewhere?
I'm confused. I really am baffled by the inconsistency, contrariness and incoherent responses.
Either there are tsunamis of players engaged in PP from PG and Solo modes - which sounds like a majority who don't want to engage in PP using Open mode? And you can't guarantee anything...
Or there aren't tsunamis of players engaged in PP from Solo and PG modes - in which case the majority are already in Open? And this thread has contradicted and defeated itself.
Which do you believe it to be?
Yours perplexed and bewildered
Mark H