Cannon Balance/Tweak Suggestions; Make Cannons Great (Again?)!

Kiithnaras

Kiithnaras
Have you wondered why cannons are seldom used in PvP? It's pretty much all PACs, MCs, Lasers, and the odd duck using railguns. Fragments are few and far between, and cannons are niche at best. The fact that larger cannons have such a drastic drop in velocity is one major factor - bigger ships can certainly use those big guns, but they're usually engaging from further distances where those slow rounds will seldom if ever hit.
Let's make Cannons great again (assuming they were Great™ at some point in the past)!

Proposed Stat Changes for Cannons:
General Principles:
  • Even out and increase velocities for cannons across the board. Fixed cannons can remain higher than non-fixed, but they shouldn't lose velocity as the guns increase in size. 1250-1333m/s is a decent speed for fixed and 1000-1100m/s is acceptable for aiming cannons.
  • Increase ammunition stores for combat longevity. Multicannons have a maximum non-synthesis combat time of around 450s, including reloads and without any Autoloader engineering, while cannons only have around 280s.
  • Reduce the material costs of Cannon ammunition synthesis to be comparable to Multicannons (Seriously? 9 materials for cannons compared to only 5 for multicannons?).
  • Significantly alter cannon damage, rates of fire, and magazine size (termed in game as Clip, but we all know where that goes) while largely preserving current cannon sustained DPS. Details below, but the general principal is to treat them more like actual auto-loading cannons with magazines - small ones would have larger magazines, faster rates of fire, and faster magazine reloads, but lower damage per round. Cannons would have identical damage per shot within the same size, but varying magazine reloads, sizes, and weapon fire rates in order to preserve their current sustained DPS.
  • Add Corrosive to the list of cannon special effects.
  • Bring up non-fixed cannons to be more in line with other gimbals and turrets (Gimbal DPS approx 75% of Fixed, Turret DPS approx 50% of Fixed)

Specifics/Details
  1. Class 1
    • Fixed:
      Damage: 22.5 (no change)
      Burst Time: 2s (no change)
      Magazine: 12 (+100%)
      Reload Time: 4s (+33.3%)
      Ammo Stores: 216 (+80%)
      DPS: 11.25/s (no change)
      SustDPS: 10.385/s (no change)
      Velocity: 1350m/s
    • Gimbal
      Damage: 22.5 (+41.3%)
      Burst Time: 2.5s (+30.2%)
      Magazine: 10 (+100%)
      Reload Time: 6s (+50%)
      Ammo Stores: 150 (+50.0%)
      DPS: 9/s (+8.5%)
      SustDPS: 7.895/s (+15.8%)
      Velocity: 1050m/s
    • Turret
      Damage: 22.5 (+41.3%)
      Burst Time: 4.2s (+56.3%)
      Magazine: 10 (+100%)
      Reload Time: 6s (+50%)
      Ammo Stores: 150 (+50.0%)
      DPS: 5.357/s (-3.1%)
      SustDPS: 5.137/s (+6.5%)
      Velocity: 1050m/s
  2. Class 2
    • Fixed
      Damage: 45 (+22%)
      Burst Time: 2.366(+9%)
      Magazine: 8 (+33.3%)
      Reload Time: 6s (+100%)
      Ammo Stores: 144 (+20%)
      DPS: 19.02/s (+11.9%)
      SustDPS: 15.956/s (-0.1%)
      Velocity: 1350m/s
    • Gimbal
      Damage: 45 (+76.3%)
      Burst Time: 3s (+44.2%)
      Magazine: 6 (+20%)
      Reload Time: 8s (+100%)
      Ammo Stores: 90 (-10%)
      DPS: 15/s (+22.2%)
      SustDPS: 11.739/s (+13.3%)
      Velocity: 1050m/s
    • Turret
      Damage: 45 (+76.3%)
      Burst Time: 5.2s (+108%)
      Magazine: 6 (+20%)
      Reload Time: 8s (+100%)
      Ammo Stores: 90 (-10%)
      DPS: 8.654/s (+9.3%)
      SustDPS: 7.941/s (+12.4%)
      Velocity: 1050m/s
  3. Class 3
    • Fixed
      Damage: 90 (+102.2%)
      Burst Time: 3.333s (+40%)
      Magazine: 6 (no change)
      Reload Time: 7.5s (+150%)
      Ammo Stores: 108 (-10%)
      DPS: 27/s (+15.5%)
      SustDPS: 22.35/s (-0.2%)
      Velocity: 1350m/s
    • Gimbal
      Damage: 90 (+140.5%)
      Burst Time: 4s (+76.2%)
      Magazine: 4 (-20%)
      Reload Time: 10s (+150%)
      Ammo Stores: 72 (-10%)
      DPS: 22.5/s (+36.5%)
      SustDPS: 16.364/s (+14.4%)
      Velocity: 1050m/s
    • Turret
      Damage: 90 (+196.6%)
      Burst Time: 6.5s (+139%)
      Magazine: 4 (-20%)
      Reload Time: 10s (+150%)
      Ammo Stores: 72 (-10%)
      DPS: 13.846/s (+24.1%)
      SustDPS: 12.203/s (+19.7%)
      Velocity: 1050m/s
  4. Class 4
    • Fixed
      Damage: 180 (+116.5%)
      Burst Time: 4.8s (+82.5%)
      Magazine: 4 (-33.3%)
      Reload Time: 9s (+200%)
      Ammo Stores: 72 (-40%)
      DPS: 37.5/s (+18.6%)
      SustDPS: 30.77/s (-0.4%)
      Velocity: 1350m/s
    • Gimbal
      Damage: 180 (+218.1%)
      Burst Time: 5.5s (+120%)
      Magazine: 3 (-40%)
      Reload Time: 12s (+200%)
      Ammo Stores: 45 (-55%)
      DPS: 32.73/s (+44.6%)
      SustDPS: 23.48/s (+16.2%)
      Velocity: 1050m/s

Obviously distributor draw and thermal loading would have to be adjusted for the new stats, but I can edit those in, later (it's assumed breach damage is a percentage of the raw) if people view these changes positively.
 
Last edited:

Kiithnaras

Kiithnaras
It may also be a good idea to add a "High Velocity Rounds" special effect that increases velocity by 50-100% and damage by 10-15% at the expense of 50% more thermal load and 10-15% longer fire delay (more damage per shot, slower rate of fire, roughly same sustained DPS). Could even flag the HVR special for PACs, too.
 

gingervegeta

G
This would definitely be good at he moment they just seem like a poor version of the MCs they definitely need to be worth using for their own reasons .
 

Kiithnaras

Kiithnaras
Couldn't agree more. While small fixed cannons might be acceptable as-is, the velocity loss on larger guns and gimballed guns is pretty steep, making gimballed C4 cannons pretty much useless outside of around 800m even when fully long-range modded.
 

Frenotx

Frenotx
Cannons are in a tough spot. On the sustained DPS side there are MCs, and on the burst damage side there are PAs. It makes finding a niche for cannons a little tricky.
 

Nero Tacitus

Nero Tacitus
I definitely agree that cannon projectile speed needs to be the same across the board. Not being able to mount more than one size of fixed cannon absolutely sucks, and seems like a large oversight in terms of hardpoint balance. PAs, Frags & MCs all have the same projectile speed across hardpoint size, why are cannons the black sheep?

I'll also agree that gimballed cannons could do with a bit of a buff in terms of DPS, but the difference (percentage anyway) isn't that great.

All hardpoints Fixed Medium:
OC Cannon: DMG 62.69, ROF 0.46 p/s, Reload 3s, Ammo 5+100 = 27.2 DPS (18 DPS on gimballed variant = 66%)
OC PA: DMG 92.31, ROF 0.33 p/s, Reload 6s, Ammo 5+100 = 25.6 DPS
OC Burst: DMG 6, ROF 3.7 = 22.2 DPS (17.5 DPS on gimballed variant = 78%)
OC MC: DMG 3.723, ROF 7.14 p/s, Reload 4s, Ammo 85+2100 = 19.9 DPS (14.3 DPS on gimballed variant = 71%)

Fixed cannons are in a great spot at the moment, outperforming most other hardpoints in terms of raw DPS, and gimbals lose more than others in terms of DPS percentage, but it's not a whole lot more, and they still output more DPS overall. If FDev would just standardise the damned projectile speed, then players could actually use combinations of fixed cannon sizes without having to gimbal them (which I suspect was the original intent). That being said, if I could use all fixed cannons on my 'Vette, good god that thing would be destructive!
 

Kiithnaras

Kiithnaras
Nero Tacitus said:
I'll also agree that gimballed cannons could do with a bit of a buff in terms of DPS, but the difference (percentage anyway) isn't that great.

Fixed cannons are in a great spot at the moment, outperforming most other hardpoints in terms of raw DPS, and gimbals lose more than others in terms of DPS percentage, but it's not a whole lot more, and they still output more DPS overall. If FDev would just standardise the damned projectile speed, then players could actually use combinations of fixed cannon sizes without having to gimbal them (which I suspect was the original intent). That being said, if I could use all fixed cannons on my 'Vette, good god that thing would be destructive!
Click to expand...

The difference might not be that great on C1 cannons, but its certainly noticeable on C4s. Cannons do really seem like they're the black sheep at the moment.

The fact that Fixed cannons are so amazing in raw statistics is pretty much why I haven't suggested changing the *sustained* DPS of fixed cannons. They just need a slight velocity buff, particularly at larger sizes (why, FDev?). It'd be nice to give them a little bit of a different feel, too; keeping cannon damage consistent within a Class while using fire delay, magazine size, and magazine reload as Sustained-DPS modulators.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom