CG, game itself actually encouraging cheating??

[Screemonster]

It's just orders of magnitude more efficient than other methods, so you have much more time to play the game you like if you're looking for just some
stuff to upgrade quickly. Or, like this case of absolute nutjob CG.

Yeah, I don't see "gather mats to obtain better ship" as the fun gameplay loop. I see "do stuff with my ship" as the fun gameplay loop.

Pre-engineers, tinkering with your ship to try out different loadouts was cool and fun and if it didn't work out then no problem just sell the new modules and put your old ones back on.
Now, every change to your ship has an accompanying material grind that you can't just revert if you don't like it without losing all the grind you put into obtaining those materials, which is awful for experimentation.

 

[Red Anders]

So why was relogging into the different play modes to respawn different missions for stacking stopped if relogging to farm mats is allowed? Seems to be an inconsistent train of logic there for me...

Still, I'm milking this CG as much as I can until fdev breaks Jameson's crash site too...

Because it was overloading the mission servers and causing endless problems.

 

[Chrystoph]

Gathering encoded data has to much RNG which is why lots of people just use the Jameson crash site and material trader instead.

Excepting Brokers, the entire game is a prayer to RNGesus. It is horridly lazy programming, buying the worst of all worlds with mission mechanics that depend on rolling a 7 on 2d6; basically, "storytelling" without meaning driven by a series of tables providing randomized results that don't impact the environment.

 

[GroG79]

Stonkss

 

[Miko]

So I saw CG top 75% earn 144 million, thought I would gather some data, looked for some resource on efficient means to do so.

Found Exigeous youtube video telling you to log/relog at jamesone crash site repeatedly.

Of course I can't do that because I have a soul. I am super disappointed that not only has that loop not been closed, but apparently passively encouraged for exploitation, (and actively so by leading fans)

So, what, do I have to cheat too .

I can only imagine re-logging was crucial to gathering guardian artifacts as well.

What are you doing?

I agree. Frontier being typically daft think giving us a CG where relog exploitation wins top spot is fair play. They honestly never cease to amaze me. I put about 9000 into the CG from my legit earned data across the years, which took me to top 50%. So unless I want to lose that spot I have to exploit now too as there are simply NO means to keep that up. It is honestly beyond comprehension by design, unless you just happily settle for less.

 

[Miko]

I have been ganking the hell out of the Jameson Crash site all evening. If your ship is on the ground and it has Imperial tags, it's getting strafed. Bring rebuy money.

Feds in SRVs, scan data to your hearts content. Your air cover is provided courtesy of FUC.

I'm imperial. Would love it if you were on PS4 and tried this to me.

 

[aRJay]

They did say in the last Odyssey livestream that they are looking into preventing it. The possibility to do the relog exploit may be migrating south for the duration of time if they do.

Yes it is undesired activity but not an actual cheat because it merely accelerates what you could do by taking off orbiting the planet and landing again. I suppose they need to use something like the timers used for rares allocations but however it is done it will be a game changer.

The biggest punishment for relogging is boredom.

 

[aRJay]

I have been ganking the hell out of the Jameson Crash site all evening. If your ship is on the ground and it has Imperial tags, it's getting strafed. Bring rebuy money.

Feds in SRVs, scan data to your hearts content. Your air cover is provided courtesy of FUC.

Why are you strafing people for helping the Feds?

Good or bad side the CG is all for the Federation.

 

[BirdWisdom]

When it comes to relogging and collecting material without opponents or in open mode.

I do it just because you can do it and I know many others do it because the game mechanics are there, and it feels like a big red flashing button is where you are not allowed to touch, but you know how that ends.

So I blame TJ

 

[Jmanis]

Because it was overloading the mission servers and causing endless problems.

Not really relevant, but I was under the impression it was a side-effect of them moving to a single, dedicated mission server, though not an unwanted one. Before that, the mission server kinda shared tenancy with other things, which did cause issues like you said. But the relogging was a by-product of the fact you got different generation seeds based on which server you hit when you logged on.

With the dedicated mission server, it meant there was now only one possible seed to get. But, yeah, not relevant

 

[BL1P]

But, but, but... That would mean... Having to make finding materials easier... And that would reduce the grind! Which would reduce playing time, which would reduce FDev's metrics to shareholders, which could mean less investment, which means smaller bonuses and pay rises, which means smaller pension pots, which means unhappy fdev employees, which means that the answer is no!

Not at all.
If it takes X amount of time to gather mats using the "logging out of game" at the moment.
Then Fdev make it equal the same X amount of time after the the "logging is removed".
The players will still spend the same amount of time ingame.
But wont be using logging in and out of the game to refresh instanced materials on the server as a means of grind.
Less strain on the servers would mean better playing experience for the player.
Less 4th wall breaking game play would mean happier players.
Happier players means better advertising by word of mouth and more players spending time ingame.
which would all translate to better metrics for the sharehaolders.

 

[Erei]

I'll use what a lot of players love to say every time someone complained that "reloging for mat is mandatory" and the like, since it seems you guys forgot your own arguments.

It's not mandatory.
It's not a race.
Do what you think is fun.
"I did it without relogging and I don't see the problem. Anyway, 2bil is nothing, I do that in 1h in Sol"
Don't do it if you don't want to.

I think I covered most of them ?

 

[JTFireblaze]

I'll use what a lot of players love to say every time someone complained that "reloging for mat is mandatory" and the like, since it seems you guys forgot your own arguments.

It's not mandatory.
It's not a race.
Do what you think is fun.
"I did it without relogging and I don't see the problem. Anyway, 2bil is nothing, I do that in 1h in Sol"
Don't do it if you don't want to.

I think I covered most of them ?

It kind of is a race in this particular instance though. Clearly the top 10 commanders are going to be players that have relogged their behinds off at Jameson's while all the normal players are going to have to settle for mid table results.

Yes, I understand that you do not need to "win" the CG, you can just participate and get ample rewards.

But if a player who does it without relogging is at such a distinct disadvantage to a relogger, well then there is a problem.

Outside of the CG: How quickly does a no-relogger get a grade 5 ship compared to that of a relogger? The argument of "You don't need a G5 ship" is well, a subjective opinion. If I'm in open in my G2-G3 ship that I've done without relogging and some FDL murder boat with full G5s takes me out instantly, either they've been playing a LOT longer than me and I have no way of catching up (which is another conversation) or they're a relogger who've gathered insane amounts of mats and I have to relog to stay competitive, or I'm forced to PGs and Solo to enjoy the game.

 

[yianniv]

Using relog to gather mats/data is my way of telling FD they've failed in this department and should do something about it.

 

[Vetinari]

Using relog to gather mats/data is my way of telling FD they've failed in this department and should do something about it.

They added extra Tiers, is that what you intended them to do?

 

[yianniv]

They added extra Tiers, is that what you intended them to do?

I'm not actually participating in these CGs, I refer to mat gathering in general which needs to be addressed.

 

[Ian Doncaster]

. If I'm in open in my G2-G3 ship that I've done without relogging and some FDL murder boat with full G5s takes me out instantly

...then the problem with your ship has nothing to do with the engineering blueprints grades.

G5 weapons can be about 70% more damaging than stock.
A G3 reinforced shield plus just two G3 heavy duty shield boosters will give you almost 80% extra to your defensive strength compared with the same unengineered modules.

So you've made three G3 modules - approximate cost, 12 G3 materials, plus some cheaper bits.
To get only most of the way towards countering that, your attacker has had to engineer their full weapon array to G5 at a cost of around 50 G5 materials plus a substantial amount of lower-grade ones.

If they're still taking you out instantly, engineering is not what's causing that - they'd also be able to do it, even faster, with you both in unengineered ships.

Grinding out a full G5 set of modules is probably necessary if you want to win a fight versus that sort of opponent. If you just want to run away, G3 is more than adequate and much cheaper.



On the engineering grind / relog issue more generally...

In general, G3 gives you about 75% of the performance of G5, at under 5% of the cost. G4 gives you 85% of G5 performance at maybe 15% of the cost. Deciding how much to spend for the performance you need is part of the game.

A-rated versus C-rated modules work the same way. A full set of A-rated core modules plus 6A shield generator for an Asp Explorer will set you back around 35 million credits. The same modules in C-rated will cost you about 4 million credits. Is it worth spending almost 9 times as much to be:
- about 10% faster
- about 15% better shielded
- about 50% better jump ranges (FSD is one of the few modules with significant scaling between grades)
- have about the same amount of power left over for non-core modules
- about 20% more power distributor
- about 15% more sensor range
....the answer is of course "yes" because what's 35 million credits nowadays. And therefore we get lots of threads about how C-rated modules are entirely pointless, because their original use of decent performance at a cheap price is no longer relevant.
(And I didn't even add a fuel scoop to this build...)

Broadly these threads all come down to "should cost-benefit tradeoff be part of the game", and as the general consensus seems to be "no, it shouldn't" perhaps the easiest solution would be to make engineering and modules all free? (Gate them behind Elite rankings and similar if you still feel some initial progression curve in the early game is valuable)

 

[photomankc]

Oh god this is absurd.
AEC and AEA maxed out in less than 20 minutes.
No wonder why no one uses a wake scanner.
So much fun, so much gameplay

But the logs are nice...

In all fairness the wake scanner is the absolute worst thing in the game. Mind numbing boosting from wake to wake you couldn’t follow if you tried and holding the trigger down.

This CG is comical.

 

[Susanna]

Not at all.
If it takes X amount of time to gather mats using the "logging out of game" at the moment.
Then Fdev make it equal the same X amount of time after the the "logging is removed".
The players will still spend the same amount of time ingame.
But wont be using logging in and out of the game to refresh instanced materials on the server as a means of grind.
Less strain on the servers would mean better playing experience for the player.
Less 4th wall breaking game play would mean happier players.
Happier players means better advertising by word of mouth and more players spending time ingame.
which would all translate to better metrics for the sharehaolders.

My post was rather tongue in cheek... But I entirely take your points

 

[Eymerich]

They (Fd) are smart: i guess they have gathered data from this Cg just to make sure they are going to fix this.