Cheating in Elite Dangerous

[Schmack]

I don't see any reason to name people. Banning or however the punishment goes should be good enough. I think some people who want to see names just want to know if the person that beat them was cheating or perhaps how many names show up on the list were respected people of the elite community because it provides gossip fodder. That's not the onus of the developer.

At the same time however I understand that people who have lost faith in the Integrity of the game need to know what has been trimmed away to know that anything has. Otherwise it's status quo and they probably have no faith that anything has changed.

 

[RagingxPenguin]

Personally, on the Anarchy System front, I think Anarchy systems should be the PvP zones with Secure Systems being locked to PvE only. That way the entire game can go Open but if you want to avoid PvP you simply don’t fly to Anarchy systems.

PvP CGs or PP events can then simply be set-up to happen on Anarchy systems or PvE events in non-Anarchy systems.

Missions to take goods or eliminate pirates in Anarchy systems should then pay more - for obvious risk/reward reasons.

But I don’t think that was the original question ...

No.

1000 times no.

 

[lecorsobreton]

Personally, on the Anarchy System front, I think Anarchy systems should be the PvP zones with Secure Systems being locked to PvE only. That way the entire game can go Open but if you want to avoid PvP you simply don’t fly to Anarchy systems.

PvP CGs or PP events can then simply be set-up to happen on Anarchy systems or PvE events in non-Anarchy systems.

Missions to take goods or eliminate pirates in Anarchy systems should then pay more - for obvious risk/reward reasons.

But I don’t think that was the original question ...

No. Open is OK as is. I've been interdicted once in the last [insert number] months and that was by a friendly roleplayer who let me go anyway. Granted, I'm not a mostly harmless flying a cutter or anything like that. Not that Dangerous means anything anyway. But at least, I'm not getting attacked here and there, as a lot of people seem to think.

 

[[VR] M4st0d0n]

Ok what does any of that change except text or numbers on the screen? How does it change the galaxy? It's like a pinball machine, you can roll the score higher and flip the levers but when you leave it will be just like it was when you started, unless the designers change it.

Anarchy is just a label. You can have insurance and spend credit from the universal bank just as in any other system. It's kind of Las Vegas but in the future.

 

[Bloodsign]

Anarchy is just a label. You can have insurance and spend credit from the universal bank just as in any other system. It's kind of Las Vegas but in the future.

Honestly I dislike the "Anarchy" label, especially since it applies to areas of unoccupied space, which makes no logical sense to me. It should be "Unenforced" and Anarchy should be an entirely different (and much more chaotic) state applying to occupied systems only.

 

[Rat Catcher]

Probably the Rats.

Squeeekkk?

 

[Riverside]

Honestly I dislike the "Anarchy" label, especially since it applies to areas of unoccupied space, which makes no logical sense to me. It should be "Unenforced" and Anarchy should be an entirely different (and much more chaotic) state applying to occupied systems only.

I do agree the game should differentiate between a populated anarchy and an unpopulated 'none' or 'N/A' system.

 

[Para Handy]

Honestly I dislike the "Anarchy" label, especially since it applies to areas of unoccupied space, which makes no logical sense to me. It should be "Unenforced" and Anarchy should be an entirely different (and much more chaotic) state applying to occupied systems only.

Didn't this used to be the case? I seem to remember we had anarchy and lawless but I might be having an acid flashback...

 

[Rat Catcher]

Didn't this used to be the case? I seem to remember we had anarchy and lawless but I might be having an acid flashback...

Other ships when scanned in Anarchies show Lawless - I can't remember if ships with a bounty show as wanted...

 

[Feros-da-Grundig]

So, forget about this. No dedicated servers -> no consistent multiplayer. Just deal with the fact that really ED is a singleplayer game, with some coop capabilities.

Thread really was over with this post.

It's a fundamental concept in computer science. You simply cannot trust data from a client no matter what clever anti-cheat hijinks you put in your code. If it's not authenticated, controlled and validated centrally, it's a lost cause.

If you just play just for lulz and not really caring if you die, then it's not such a big deal though. Seems to me to be the best way to deal with it.

(Yes I am oversimplifying slightly regarding client server but let's not get into that theoretical debate, in practice in gaming, for all intents and purposes p2p = cheat-for-all for anyone willing to put in the work)

 

[Bloodsign]

I've given a great deal of thought to cheating with bots, scripts and trainers.

It all boils down to Frontier securing the "ship". What I mean by this is that you can upgrade and engineer, but once your done, your ship becomes "locked" to that setting.

With all ships "set and locked", for the sake of this example, a "CRC or ACL" key lock is generated for each ship after upgrade or engineering. If you change the game code in any way outside of this which does not match the ship's "set lock" you would be considered cheating, and the ban hammer would hit you.

So, Frontier, since this is a suggestion for which "cheaters" cannot duplicate or change by any means, I now offer this on an open forum for you and all players to consider as a preventative measure which could be implemented and included as an upgrade.

This forum now has many threads with concerns over cheating in this game. I offer a solution which can be advertised to both legitimate players and potential cheaters.

Change the ship's "set lock" or if your ship does not match the "set lock", your out of the game.

o7.....

Strongly agree, this is pretty much what I suggested a few pages back but with different terminology.

FDev needs to have code checks that check current ship attributes against what is actually legitimately possible for that ship build. If the current values exceed the maximum possible values, player is cheating somehow. This solution works because it doesn't require FDev to create a new solution for every new hack that pops up; it will work across the board for ANY hack that modifies ship builds.

This concept can be applied in a variety of ways, for example, any time a ship jumps, there should be a check to see if the jump is actually possible based on ship build. Jumps of 5000ly would obviously indicate a cheat or hack.

 

[StuartGT]

I'm asking because offline mode was promised in the kickstarter campaign, but DB later changed his mind. It angered many backers so much that they demanded to be refunded, if I remember correctly the Reddit thread had more than 10,000 posts. Pleas for offline mode didn't stop since then.

Edit: I wasn't burnt, I was disgusted by the PP when it came out.

The Reddit thread had 260 votescore and 600 comments

https://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDangerous/comments/2mhtjl

Source: http://reddit.com/r/EliteDangerous/comments/2mhtjl/elite_dangerous_drops_its_promised_offline_mode/

 

[Feros-da-Grundig]

It all boils down to Frontier securing the "ship". What I mean by this is that you can upgrade and engineer, but once your done, your ship becomes "locked" to that setting.

With all ships "set and locked", for the sake of this example, a "CRC or ACL" key lock is generated for each ship after upgrade or engineering. If you change the game code in any way outside of this which does not match the ship's "set lock" you would be considered cheating, and the ban hammer would hit you.

Strongly agree, this is pretty much what I suggested a few pages back but with different terminology.

Anyone who can implement this client side in a foolproof and trustworthy manner would immediately win a Turing award and become one of the most well known computer scientists in history. So good luck with that.

The primary problem (simplified) is that the client can send any CRC it likes, while in fact running completely different instructions rather than what the CRC would have been generated by.

That is why P2P is problematic and why we can't really have "proper" PvP (among other things) unless they completely change the architecture to be serverside oriented.

 

[Midian Cabal]

The Reddit thread had 260 votescore and 600 comments

https://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDangerous/comments/2mhtjl

Source: http://reddit.com/r/EliteDangerous/comments/2mhtjl/elite_dangerous_drops_its_promised_offline_mode/

Could it be it here, on the official forum?

Edit: Best I could find, since old posts aren't accessible any more:

 

[Feros-da-Grundig]

It's not client side. The CRC is generated by the Server for you, each time you make a legitimate game change, and then given to you before you play.

Then you are describing a serverside architecture, which is what I am saying is required to properly avoid hacks, combat logging, etc. This would require a complete redesign of the game's networking implementation, and will never happen due to the huge amount of work required and the fact no one really cares outside a few small groups (PvPers, Powerplayers aware that bots exist, etc). Phrasing it as "generate a CRC for the ship and banhammer any irregularities" vastly oversimplifies the fact it's a complete change in the game's implementation.

Moreover it really has nothing to do with CRC validation of a ship build or really anything like that. The crux of the matter is that the game's state model needs to be stored serverside, and any requests to change that state sent by the client validated at the server before being applied to the state model. Clients might do things like cache state for performance considerations, but ultimately the server's copy is what is used to resolve any conflict.

Currently (from my educated guesses), the state model is kind of spread across all clients and a bit on the server, and there's a bunch of spaget code that syncs stuff up, resulting in many opportunities for abuse.

 

[Para Handy]

Other ships when scanned in Anarchies show Lawless - I can't remember if ships with a bounty show as wanted...

No, I was referring to the fact that we used to have two different system states - lawless plus anarchy - not ship's wanted / lawless / clean states.

 

[Rat Catcher]

No, I was referring to the fact that we used to have two different system states - lawless and anarchy - not ship's wanted / lawless / clean states.

Sorry, misunderstood

Would be good if it was still so.

 

[StuartGT]

Could it be it here, on the official forum?

Edit: Best I could find, since old posts aren't accessible any more:

View attachment 132352

Could well be. You said Reddit, so I checked.

 

[Gemini2011]

I find the hacking to be a very low, self centered and completely immature thing to do. More so in ED then other game. There missing the point.

I started as well as many others before there was engineers in game and have watched the game evolve over time. It used to be harder to play. A 30 light year jump range was considered really good then. There was no engineered weapons period. Everything was less user friendly then now.

The most recent patches have made ED so much easier on new players, also never ever seen credits so easy to come by. Exploration is far easier now then it ever has been. With the engineer exp effects and guardian stuff, ships have never been so powerful....AND PEOPLE WANT TO CHEAT?

The hell with warnings and sending the to solo play were the still have an effect, kick there low asses out of the game perma, before the really do ruin it for everyone else.

 

[Schmack]

I find the hacking to be a very low, self centered and completely immature thing to do. More so in ED then other game. There missing the point.

I started as well as many others before there was engineers in game and have watched the game evolve over time. It used to be harder to play. A 30 light year jump range was considered really good then. There was no engineered weapons period. Everything was less user friendly then now.

The most recent patches have made ED so much easier on new players, also never ever seen credits so easy to come by. Exploration is far easier now then it ever has been. With the engineer exp effects and guardian stuff, ships have never been so powerful....AND PEOPLE WANT TO CHEAT?

The hell with warnings and sending the to solo play were the still have an effect, kick there low asses out of the game perma, before the really do ruin it for everyone else.

I agree with your final assessment, however it doesn't matter how much easier it is now than in the past. If there was a new weapon or ship mod that made your ship 20% stronger, faster, cooler than it is now, even if you're fully engineered and have every other buff you can muster within EULA rules, many many players would fly to the other side of the galaxy to get it, because they want more. The asymptotic curve toward invincible bolt of lighting gets closer and closer as time passes. The cheat just closes that gap. They don't cheat to make it easier to win. They cheat to make it effortless, to not worry about losing at all, to crush their enemies, to see their enemies driven before them and hear the lamentation of their women.