Code action against CoR

[ocflyer]

Although you have to wonder what it says about people who choose to enter any form of conflict with another group while hiding behind these mechanics to protect themselves from what would be ingame reactions and try to remain anonymous doing it.

What it does do though is justify so many PvPers claims that PG and Solo shouldn't exist as it does not create a level playing field in allowing only 1 form of defence or attack being Solo and PG PvE grinding only.

Personally as a PvE player who accepts that PvP is part of the game as are player factions, attacking people even economically from PG or Solo smacks of cowardice and has the same impact as an exploit.

I'm all for non PvP modes, but using them as a way of safely attacking a PvP group doesn't seem right to me. If you are too scared to meet them and fight them on home turf, then you shouldn't be able to hurt them.

And before the obvious comments start (and just to make sure I get moaned at by both sides) I would expect the same in reverse so if a PvP group wanted to attack a declared PvE group they would have to accept that the PvE grind is the way to do it and they can't insist the PvE group change their game to suit them.

But for an aggressor to hide behind game modes so that their attacks are secret and not take what would be the consequences of being the aggressor is just plain wrong.

I'm loving all the salt from Code and PvPers, especially ones like this. To these guys, ALL warfare must be conducted on an open field where soldiers can easily be shot. Snipers and machine gunners in pits are cowards because they hide. Soldiers who lay minefields at night are cowards because they do so in the dark where others can't see them. These methods of modern warfare are "just plain wrong" because their "attacks are secret".

The political intrigue of conquest through PVE is wonderfully rewarding when we see such soldiers cry "Unfair, unfair, this is wrong!" Long live PVE!

 

[Harley Quinn]

I'm loving all the salt from Code and PvPers, especially ones like this. To these guys, ALL warfare must be conducted on an open field where soldiers can easily be shot. Snipers and machine gunners in pits are cowards because they hide. Soldiers who lay minefields at night are cowards because they do so in the dark where others can't see them. These methods of modern warfare are "just plain wrong" because their "attacks are secret".

The political intrigue of conquest through PVE is wonderfully rewarding when we see such soldiers cry "Unfair, unfair, this is wrong!" Long live PVE!

Only if you had bothered to read my post you might have noticed the part where I said I was a PvE player.

But hey, don't let that bother you. Or the fact that I said someone wanting to be the aggressor against a PvE group should have to accept that they play their way and shouldn't be forced into PvP.

But feel free to justify attacking a PvP group by hiding in PG and Solo because people are too scared to meet them on their own terms or allow them to use valid tactics to frustrate an attack while forcing them to play PvE.

And do please try to continue to equate soldiers who run the risk of getting caught and killed while doing something covertly to people hiding behind an impenetrable wall in absolute safety. Not disrespectful to those brave soldiers at all.

 

[IndigoWyrd]

Only if you had bothered to read my post you might have noticed the part where I said I was a PvE player.

But hey, don't let that bother you. Or the fact that I said someone wanting to be the aggressor against a PvE group should have to accept that they play their way and shouldn't be forced into PvP.

But feel free to justify attacking a PvP group by hiding in PG and Solo because people are too scared to meet them on their own terms or allow them to use valid tactics to frustrate an attack while forcing them to play PvE.

And do please try to continue to equate soldiers who run the risk of getting caught and killed while doing something covertly to people hiding behind an impenetrable wall in absolute safety. Not disrespectful to those brave soldiers at all.

Indeed - don't confuse the soldiers in the field with the Politicians in the Capitol.

 

[Goose4291]

It's also just a game, and the "rewards" are nothing more than a field of text changing.

See why so many people don't give a damn?

Because as we've seen prior, it's how a lot of the big groups/community 'big deals' like to measure their e-peens.

 

[Asp Explorer]

But feel free to justify attacking a PvP group by hiding in PG and Solo because people are too scared to meet them on their own terms or allow them to use valid tactics to frustrate an attack while forcing them to play PvE.

The last time that happened on a "largish" scale was back when SDC pulled their mode invasion stunt and laughed at all the poor PvE CMDR's that they effortlessly exploded and cried at them in tears of laughter 'Git Gud you scrubs!"

They justified it in their own words, that PVP was the focus of the game, and that PVE players "hiding" from them would be caught and punished in any way that PVP group thought necessary - to "teach them a lesson!" that forced PVP was the only meaningful in-game interaction.

Well, all that prompted was a community backlash, and a bunch of disorganised PVE players took it upon themselves to demonstrate that, in their view, PVP was not the focus of the game and a meaningful in-game outcome could be forced. They completely smushed that faction and had it's sorry remains scattered to the four winds of lulz.

Their point showed that BGS manipulation was more potent than PVP pew-pew for registering player action and demonstrating effect, and in a way projecting real power. PVP was utterly powerless against such thing, simply because they simply didn't consider themselves playing the same game, were somehow following different rules, and for all their cries of "git gud!" showed just how gud they had to git.

Now, there's nothing wrong with a bit of pew-pew, but where flying around in armed space ships is part of the game, and blowing up players can be part of the game for some, it nicely demonstrated that a loaded T6 is far mightier than a meta-of-the-week FDL.

 

[Mohrgan]

Only if you had bothered to read my post you might have noticed the part where I said I was a PvE player.

But hey, don't let that bother you. Or the fact that I said someone wanting to be the aggressor against a PvE group should have to accept that they play their way and shouldn't be forced into PvP.

But feel free to justify attacking a PvP group by hiding in PG and Solo because people are too scared to meet them on their own terms or allow them to use valid tactics to frustrate an attack while forcing them to play PvE.

And do please try to continue to equate soldiers who run the risk of getting caught and killed while doing something covertly to people hiding behind an impenetrable wall in absolute safety. Not disrespectful to those brave soldiers at all.

When your group gets attacked in PG/Solo they can only attack your BGS/Influence. You have the perfect defense to this tactic. Do more good for your BGS/Influence that your attackers can do bad. You are safe. This counter-attack can be accomplished in Open if you please. Situation sorted, a long time ago. Even if, and I'm sure this has been pointed out numerous times, you could stop even half of their efforts, you BGS will still tank, if you don't use the BGS to fight back.

There is no way for anyone, playing in any mode to hide from you. You can, at all times, reach them through the BGS, just as they can. All of your teeth gnashing just will not change this fundamental fact.

 

[ocflyer]

Only if you had bothered to read my post you might have noticed the part where I said I was a PvE player.

But hey, don't let that bother you. Or the fact that I said someone wanting to be the aggressor against a PvE group should have to accept that they play their way and shouldn't be forced into PvP.

But feel free to justify attacking a PvP group by hiding in PG and Solo because people are too scared to meet them on their own terms or allow them to use valid tactics to frustrate an attack while forcing them to play PvE.

And do please try to continue to equate soldiers who run the risk of getting caught and killed while doing something covertly to people hiding behind an impenetrable wall in absolute safety. Not disrespectful to those brave soldiers at all.

Looks like I overlooked the part about you being a PVEer. My apologies for lumping you in with PVPers in that regard. I mistakenly included you in their group because your sentiment regarding BGS play in Solo/PG appears to mirror that of the salty Code players.

Real life warfare is often done in secret, and my comparison with real life warfare is reasonable given that my ship is in danger in PG from many opposing NPC forces. Unfortunately, real life soldiers die as a result of political machinations, ambushes, traps, etc. as in-game pilots die from similar forms aggression.

You argue that players in Solo/PG do so because they're scared. That's a poor assumption. I'm not afraid of playing in PVP but I dislike the overengineered, protacted PVP fights so I play in Solo/PG. You argue that we should fight player factions only in PVP, thus forcing us to play their way. That too is forcing someone to play another person's game.

You also assume that if we play in Open that player factions would be able to defend against our political/economic aggression but you overlook instancing and timezone factors. Most of the time when I play in Open, I almost never see anyone. So, playing in Open has not changed the dynamics in my gameplay.

From my perspective, unless Frontier eliminates Solo and PG, I will continue to play the game as intended and exert political influence in Solo and PG.

 

[Bryan K]

I'm loving all the salt from Code and PvPers, especially ones like this. To these guys, ALL warfare must be conducted on an open field where soldiers can easily be shot. Snipers and machine gunners in pits are cowards because they hide. Soldiers who lay minefields at night are cowards because they do so in the dark where others can't see them. These methods of modern warfare are "just plain wrong" because their "attacks are secret".

The political intrigue of conquest through PVE is wonderfully rewarding when we see such soldiers cry "Unfair, unfair, this is wrong!" Long live PVE!

Don't forget stealth aircraft. Having a radar signature the size of a bumblebee can't be fair to those folks who still use MiGs.

 

[Goose4291]

The last time that happened on a "largish" scale was back when SDC pulled their mode invasion stunt and laughed at all the poor PvE CMDR's that they effortlessly exploded and cried at them in tears of laughter 'Git Gud you scrubs!"

They justified it in their own words, that PVP was the focus of the game, and that PVE players "hiding" from them would be caught and punished in any way that PVP group thought necessary - to "teach them a lesson!" that forced PVP was the only meaningful in-game interaction.

Well, all that prompted was a community backlash, and a bunch of disorganised PVE players took it upon themselves to demonstrate that, in their view, PVP was not the focus of the game and a meaningful in-game outcome could be forced. They completely smushed that faction and had it's sorry remains scattered to the four winds of lulz.

Their point showed that BGS manipulation was more potent than PVP pew-pew for registering player action and demonstrating effect, and in a way projecting real power. PVP was utterly powerless against such thing, simply because they simply didn't consider themselves playing the same game, were somehow following different rules, and for all their cries of "git gud!" showed just how gud they had to git.

Now, there's nothing wrong with a bit of pew-pew, but where flying around in armed space ships is part of the game, and blowing up players can be part of the game for some, it nicely demonstrated that a loaded T6 is far mightier than a meta-of-the-week FDL.

It's a good redressing of the narrative of that rather childish period of our shared past.

As I recall, they simply said they didn't care about their BGS faction and to crack on and many lulz were had by them as they read the tales of PvE heroes nipple stroking themselves over reducing a faction to zero influence, when its owners didn't care about it in the first place.

Detractors of the campaign for the above (that it was a pointless, meaningless and generating a bitter toxic environment, and doing it from the safety net of solo/PG was bad form) were accused of being SDC shills or alt-accounts for SDC members while over zealously moderated out of the discussion by a moderation team that was turning a blind eye to a very public 'dump on one faction' event.

 

[Harley Quinn]

When your group gets attacked in PG/Solo they can only attack your BGS/Influence. You have the perfect defense to this tactic. Do more good for your BGS/Influence that your attackers can do bad. You are safe. This counter-attack can be accomplished in Open if you please. Situation sorted, a long time ago. Even if, and I'm sure this has been pointed out numerous times, you could stop even half of their efforts, you BGS will still tank, if you don't use the BGS to fight back.

There is no way for anyone, playing in any mode to hide from you. You can, at all times, reach them through the BGS, just as they can. All of your teeth gnashing just will not change this fundamental fact.

True. But the funny thing is I see many of my fellow PvE players moaning about PvP, their right to play PvE and that nobody should force them to PvP

All valid, but what you just described is forcing a PvP player to play PvE when attacking their system economically is done in PG or Solo, when if this was done in open they could defend using PvP.

So we have an aggressor who wants to hide and force others to play the way they do.

Seems a bit hypocritical of some other PvE players to rightly state they have the right to play their own way and have PvE only modes, but then use those modes to attack PvP groups and force them to play PvE.

I personally think PvP invading Mobius is not justifiable, but unfortunately when I see fellow PvE players applying this double standard as it suites them I can understand why others would disagree with me on that.

 

[Gunnet]

True. But the funny thing is I see many of my fellow PvE players moaning about PvP, their right to play PvE and that nobody should force them to PvP

All valid, but what you just described is forcing a PvP player to play PvE when attacking their system economically is done in PG or Solo, when if this was done in open they could defend using PvP.

So we have an aggressor who wants to hide and force others to play the way they do.

Seems a bit hypocritical of some other PvE players to rightly state they have the right to play their own way and have PvE only modes, but then use those modes to attack PvP groups and force them to play PvE.

I personally think PvP invading Mobius is not justifiable, but unfortunately when I see fellow PvE players applying this double standard as it suites them I can understand why others would disagree with me on that.

The BGS is fundamentally a PvE system. Whether in open, group or solo, players who wish to affect it are required by the game itself to PvE. In other words, PvP groups which decide they want to support a minor faction are forcing themselves to PvE.

 

[Aewarin Jameson]

*chuckles at everyone*

The code guy makes 1 post .. ONE post .. a hit-n-run effect, and the rest of you go banana's and totally off topic.

Trolling by the code at its best !

 

[Harley Quinn]

Looks like I overlooked the part about you being a PVEer. My apologies for lumping you in with PVPers in that regard. I mistakenly included you in their group because your sentiment regarding BGS play in Solo/PG appears to mirror that of the salty Code players.

Real life warfare is often done in secret, and my comparison with real life warfare is reasonable given that my ship is in danger in PG from many opposing NPC forces. Unfortunately, real life soldiers die as a result of political machinations, ambushes, traps, etc. as in-game pilots die from similar forms aggression.

You argue that players in Solo/PG do so because they're scared. That's a poor assumption. I'm not afraid of playing in PVP but I dislike the overengineered, protacted PVP fights so I play in Solo/PG. You argue that we should fight player factions only in PVP, thus forcing us to play their way. That too is forcing someone to play another person's game.

You also assume that if we play in Open that player factions would be able to defend against our political/economic aggression but you overlook instancing and timezone factors. Most of the time when I play in Open, I almost never see anyone. So, playing in Open has not changed the dynamics in my gameplay.

From my perspective, unless Frontier eliminates Solo and PG, I will continue to play the game as intended and exert political influence in Solo and PG.

Running a war in secret should always be an option. And where it took cunning, skill, the right equipment or anything else we actually played in the game I would applaud it.

But clicking Solo for 99% safety while doing the work and a 0% chance of being caught? I can't applaud that one as it is just clicking a mode choice.

Lack of any way to run silent in SC does limit options in game, but I still personally don't think that if a player decides to attack another group that is openly and declared PvP, doing this in a safe PvE mode is fair to them.

Sure if they decide to attack a PvE group, that PvE group should feel free to play in the mode they normally do. That's just not forcing the PvE players to play a certain way.

But by choosing PG/Solo to attack a PvP group we are forcing them to play our way only while hiding somewhere safe.

Us PvE players taking the morale high ground on freedom of choice, using superior builds to harm others being griefing etc. kind of loses any justification when this is what is being done in reverse to harm a groups BGS.

I'm sure some people will try and justify it to themselves in many way, such as claiming all PvP is griefing or that piracy shouldn't exist even though in Elite since 1984, or that players shouldn't be able to do it.

But at the end of the day we have a choice not to play PvP. It's called PG and Solo. All I'm saying is that we shouldn't use that to gain an absolute ingame advantage if deciding economically attack a player group who do PvP.

We should give them the same respect we expect in return.

 

[Harley Quinn]

Don't forget stealth aircraft. Having a radar signature the size of a bumblebee can't be fair to those folks who still use MiGs.

Now a stealth ship would be a great addition or modules to create that in any hull. Yes we can do it out of SC but not being able to do it in SC makes it ineffective.

Something I would like to see added.

I just don't think "click Solo for a 100% of not being caught" is a valid substitute.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

*chuckles at everyone*

The code guy makes 1 post .. ONE post .. a hit-n-run effect, and the rest of you go banana's and totally off topic.

Trolling by the code at its best !

Dude, we're all starved for drama. It's the reason we visit this place. Plus it's unfortunate we only got the few Code posts. I'd like to know what state the Code is in nowadays and who is (still) in it.

There is a solution to the OP's problem of course. If a PvP group wishes to compete in BGS PvE activities, either they go ahead and influence the BGS themselves, or attract a section of the players that are interested in playing the BGS and integrate them into their group. Producing more interactions between the two playing styles.

 

[Harley Quinn]

The BGS is fundamentally a PvE system. Whether in open, group or solo, players who wish to affect it are required by the game itself to PvE. In other words, PvP groups which decide they want to support a minor faction are forcing themselves to PvE.

Again true but as a very simple example, if I wanted to stop outbreak in my system what would happen if I destroyed every ship bringing biowaste in, but protected every ship taking it out and bringing meds in?

Yes it still takes a PvE component but PvP would if 100% successful on achieving that goal be what won the day quickly and easily.

What we are doing if attacking others from PG and Solo is neutering that possible effect on the BGS not through any skill or gameplay, but by simply clicking a "I win" button.

Against other PvE groups, no problems as a level playing field.

Against being attacked by a PvP group, no problems as they knew who they were attacking and how they played.

To attack a PvP group? Seems like an advantage by pressing click to me.

 

[Aewarin Jameson]

Dude, we're all starved for drama.

I assure you there are far better, and hotter, threads to entertain you than this damp squib ... The OP made 1 post .. that's it .. no debate / no conversation / nothing .. simply "we're blocking this system" .. what kind of engagement is that from the code we all love and [used to] know .. seems that when GF left their collective IQ dropped into single digits .. Why give them the time of day when they couldn't even be bothered to make the OP entertaining ? That wasn't a quality piece of news .. that was [expletive]

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

Again true but as a very simple example, if I wanted to stop outbreak in my system what would happen if I destroyed every ship bringing biowaste in, but protected every ship taking it out and bringing meds in?

Yes it still takes a PvE component but PvP would if 100% successful on achieving that goal be what won the day quickly and easily.

What we are doing if attacking others from PG and Solo is neutering that possible effect on the BGS not through any skill or gameplay, but by simply clicking a "I win" button.

Against other PvE groups, no problems as a level playing field.

Against being attacked by a PvP group, no problems as they knew who they were attacking and how they played.

To attack a PvP group? Seems like an advantage by pressing click to me.

so you are suggesting that ED on console is a pay subs to play then essentially if you want to affect the BGS etc then? (because xbox live gold & PSN+). I disagree with you even on PC due to ED not being the kind of game you want it to be, and this is why i play it.... but even IF I agreed with you, it would totally change the nature of the game on console.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

Only if you had bothered to read my post you might have noticed the part where I said I was a PvE player.

But hey, don't let that bother you. Or the fact that I said someone wanting to be the aggressor against a PvE group should have to accept that they play their way and shouldn't be forced into PvP.

But feel free to justify attacking a PvP group by hiding in PG and Solo because people are too scared to meet them on their own terms or allow them to use valid tactics to frustrate an attack while forcing them to play PvE.
And do please try to continue to equate soldiers who run the risk of getting caught and killed while doing something covertly to people hiding behind an impenetrable wall in absolute safety. Not disrespectful to those brave soldiers at all.

here is the thing..... SDC / CODE I do not respect as a PvP group..... There was a time when Code interested me. Then I met a bunch of them and they were nothing more than a load of griefing exploiters, doing everything they could to destroy players by ramming, tying up the 1 landing pad for my ship also sending abuse over chat... it wasnt PvP, it certainly wasnt piracy, it was exploiting lame holes in the game . After a 90min run hauling to get there as well.....
so i logged into PG and didnt really look back
And then there was the invading of private groups which some of their (CODE) members proudly boasted about... and even tho their alleged leader claimed this was against their rules, nothing happened.

So frankly, to me it sounds like they are reaping what they sowed.

BTW I took part in the wolfberg BGS stuff... my part was all done in open as well, not that anyone from SDC will accept that. they believe it was all done in PG / solo however the many players i saw in open would beg to differ from that.

Am I saying all code members are like that? No I am not... but sadly one is judged by the company they keep imo..... The most hilarious thing I have ever read on here was an SDC member crying foul when (s)he was not given access to an exploration PG once they found out who (s)he was a member of!.

oh and last but not least the video of an SDC member admitting to using out and out hacks in ED (later claimed "it was a joke! honest"). Oh and of course the players crying on here about combat loggers being caught red handed doing it themselves...

none of this is aimed at you btw H Q... I am just explaining why personally I have zero sympathies for anything that happens against code or SDC player groups.... If there are other more respectful PvP groups out there, and it ever turned out i (by chance i would not do it deliberately) was working against them, then I would respectfully back off so long as it was not in direct effect on the npc factions i happen to have pledged to... but CODE / SDC...... [haha]

PS I am not a member of CoR & their offensive against code.....

 

[Gunnet]

Again true but as a very simple example, if I wanted to stop outbreak in my system what would happen if I destroyed every ship bringing biowaste in, but protected every ship taking it out and bringing meds in?

Yes it still takes a PvE component but PvP would if 100% successful on achieving that goal be what won the day quickly and easily.

What we are doing if attacking others from PG and Solo is neutering that possible effect on the BGS not through any skill or gameplay, but by simply clicking a "I win" button.

Against other PvE groups, no problems as a level playing field.

Against being attacked by a PvP group, no problems as they knew who they were attacking and how they played.

To attack a PvP group? Seems like an advantage by pressing click to me.

It's not quicker and easier to maintain a 24/7 vigil with enough players to cover every instance on every platform than it is to run some meds in yourself. And if you destroy enough clean ships you'll just end up with a lockdown instead of an outbreak, which you will need to clear with PvE bounty hunting...

The playing field is hardly level when PvP groups face PvE groups in open either. One side is always going to have an advantage depending on whether or not there is direct PvP. It just happens that this particular game was built primarily around PvE, and like any game it tends to offer advantages to those who focus on the core gameplay.