Colonisation - new feature, and I love it!

if we can create a one bubble every week

We still need: 192.307 real years to colonise the galaxy

The accuracy of these numbers, or otherwise, is for me irrelevant because the underlying metric - what it in fact means to "colonise the galaxy" to the point it becomes a problem - is flawed: going by the number of populated systems is just the wrong way to measure this.

A better approach (IMO) is distance to the nearest populated system: the lower the distance, the more "colonised" the galaxy is.

Because the system density around the galaxy center is so much higher, the proportion of systems to colonise there to achieve some given distance is way lower than the proportion of systems to colonise elsewhere for the same distance. System numbers at the core are up to 100x higher for a given volume of space than in sparser regions (I estimate based on boxel numbers)

The smaller this maximum distance gets, the more cluttered and cramped the galaxy would feel. Exactly what constitutes an unacceptably low distance is subjective, but anything less than a few thousand light years would be a tragic loss of unspoiled galactic wilderness for some.

Let's take 2000ly as an arbitrary example distance we can consider for discussion to be unacceptable. The galaxy can be approximated as a disk with diameter 100,000ly. Ignoring the existence of the Bubble, the number of colonised systems to achieve the 2000ly distance can be approximated by considering a hexagonal tiling of the galactic disk, where each hexagon is inscribed within a 2000ly radius circle and the colonised systems are at the center of each hexagon/circle.

The distance between the centers of these hexagons would be cos(30) * 2 * 2000ly or about 3464ly, hence 15 adjacent such hexagons would cover the 50,000ly radius of the galaxy, with a little to spare.

Using the centered hexagonal number formula to count the number of hexagons arranged in a concentric lattice, H( n ) = 1 + 6((n(n - 1)) / 2), and setting n = 15, gives 1 + (6 * 15 * 14 / 2) or 631 hexagons inscribed in 2kly circles to tile the galactic plane.

My maths may well be off by a factor of 2 or 3 here (corrections are welcome!), but the point would still stand.. Given a sufficiently coordinated playerbase unconstrained by a maximum colonisation distance, the galaxy could be unacceptably over colonised within a very short time (however long it takes for a couple of thousand colonised systems, say, to appear. Less than a year, certainly, probably less than a month.)

What's acceptable and unacceptable is subjective, of course, but not being able to get further than 2kly from civilisation would be a major detriment to the value of the game's galaxy for many, I suspect.

Edit: yeah, on reflection I think the maths was out - a fencepost error counting the number of hexagons from center to perimeter: I should have 16 not 15, giving 721 hexagons total.
 
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That's a good point and good math.

And interesting point of view not to count percentage of colonisation but distance between stations. I think it is even better. So we should decide what is too much. For an example I don't use DSSA carriers because it is always too far for me :)

I just tried to show how big is the galaxy.

If we think about 2000 Ly of colonisation and galactic as a 2D plane disc and then fully colonised galaxy means: station in about 2kLy range distnace to the other on hexagon mesh. Sure... it could be done pretty fast (but you need to transfer a lot of resurces to them, so still it is a challenge, because of fleet carrier moving ability).

But on all of that math is one very interesting variable we don't know yet. Human intentions...

Personal example:

If I want to colonise Arcadia - the place for explorers in the middle of nowhere (Trojan's Belt): https://www.edsm.net/en/system/id/87101071/name/Lyaiso+YW-B+b13-5 I need to create daisy-chain to that place.
With 100 Ly colonisation range I need 360 colonised systems, and only the last one is important, rest of them are just scrap systems.
With 1000 Ly it would be onlyu 36 systems...

For now I have there 2 station-a-like-carrier and this is fine too (the only problem is they need to back to the bubble to refill shipyard/outfitting and of course immersion).

So I would preffer to slowly build a little bubble around Arcadia than creating daisy-chain with houndreds of station from the Bubble and making galaxy a mess.

People will build the same amount of systems/stations, with 10 Ly jump and 1000 Ly jump, because they are able to play parictular amount of time. The only change here is how far from the bubble we can go. And from this point - higher colonisation range can avoid scrap systems. And still BGS/PowerPlay player will stay around the bubble even with big coloonisation range, because they have different goals.

Big colonisation range is only for few groups of explorers who want to create mini bubbles (I mean Arcadia, New Eden, Azura Initiative). In that places are still human activity and a lot of carriers, so it won't change a lot in my opinion.

I think Frontier need to watch what player do wich colonisation for some time and then decide about the range. It is obvious that it is small for the beta, because it is always easier to give players more than shorten it later.
 
A very funny discussion.
As far as i know until now only 0.06% of the galaxy have been explored as of a year ago. Not colonized, but explored.

So why are even having a discussion about how long it will take to colonize the galaxy?

There are two significant stop gaps towards colonisation:
1. The range.
10ly just doesn't cut it. Why? Because it creates a lot of roadblocks. It will be only feasible to colonize within the center of the galaxy, or the center of the Orion arm. Because only there you actually have systems within 10 ly. Even on the upper and lower fringes of the bubble the available colonization targets thin out significantly. Buy a hauler, set the routes to 10ly, and plot a route to your favorite earth-like exploration target, and see for yourself. The actual range will probably be more about 7ly per colonization in a straight line than 10ly. Because stars aren't lined up in a straight line.
2. The time needed to trigger the next colonization
So let's say you have your favorite earth-like, and it is 100ly away. How much time will it take to trigger the next colonization? Deploy the colonization beacon, then bring up the first station, then trigger the next one? Will it be a week? Or 4 weeks? We will find out. If it is 4 weeks, and you have an average "colonization jump range" of 7ly, you need 15 months to get to 100ly. We will find out soon.
 
A very funny discussion.
As far as i know until now only 0.06% of the galaxy have been explored as of a year ago. Not colonized, but explored.

So why are even having a discussion about how long it will take to colonize the galaxy?

Personally, for fun, when I wait for colonisation relase :D Really, just for that. Ok, maybe more... I like every numbers shows how big is the Galaxy in Elite :) It is really amazing.


There are two significant stop gaps towards colonisation:
1. The range.
10ly just doesn't cut it. Why? Because it creates a lot of roadblocks. It will be only feasible to colonize within the center of the galaxy, or the center of the Orion arm. Because only there you actually have systems within 10 ly. Even on the upper and lower fringes of the bubble the available colonization targets thin out significantly. Buy a hauler, set the routes to 10ly, and plot a route to your favorite earth-like exploration target, and see for yourself. The actual range will probably be more about 7ly per colonization in a straight line than 10ly. Because stars aren't lined up in a straight line.
2. The time needed to trigger the next colonization
So let's say you have your favorite earth-like, and it is 100ly away. How much time will it take to trigger the next colonization? Deploy the colonization beacon, then bring up the first station, then trigger the next one? Will it be a week? Or 4 weeks? We will find out. If it is 4 weeks, and you have an average "colonization jump range" of 7ly, you need 15 months to get to 100ly. We will find out soon.

1. Yes, that's why I preffer to use the phrase: "Bubble expansion". But to be more specific. We did some research with our Exologic team and:
  • we checked 17 systems on the edge of the bubble
  • the highest numer of systems within 10 Ly range was 32
  • the lowest number of systems was 2
  • average number of systems was 10-11
  • 10% of these systems we see as potential worth of colonisation (of course we just try to predict)

2. I think Frontier said you have 2 weeks to create first station - so colonise the system, and all systems will refresh every Thrusday, so the minium time is 1 week. 100 ly from the bubble isn't even far. If we want to colonise for an example coalsack we need like 45-50 systems in daisy-chain. And it is only one carrier jump.

I am really curious about the future.
 
I wonder..?
the aim of this Beta is aimed firmly at resource balancing and not changes to the feature itself.
Taken from the currently locked thread, so can't quote Paul directly...

Does this mean that all of those hopes of greater than 10LY colony starting is thoroughly dashed? (as it certainly reads that way)

Or at least until FD decide I can build my Anarchy Colony in Colonia...
 
I wonder..?

Taken from the currently locked thread, so can't quote Paul directly...

Does this mean that all of those hopes of greater than 10LY colony starting is thoroughly dashed? (as it certainly reads that way)

Or at least until FD decide I can build my Anarchy Colony in Colonia...

What should they wrote? Let's discuss about colonisation range? :)
I mean - they need to reabalnce it first, so want to focus on that.

I am on bigger colonisation range, but at first step I will focus on recource balancing. Let's work together. There will be time for talking about the rnage. It happened few times in the past.

I would like to colonise Arcadia - 36kly years from the Bubble, but... if it won't happend I still do some work with colonisation for fun. There is still a lot to do in the game ;)
 
I wonder..?

Taken from the currently locked thread, so can't quote Paul directly...

Does this mean that all of those hopes of greater than 10LY colony starting is thoroughly dashed? (as it certainly reads that way)

Or at least until FD decide I can build my Anarchy Colony in Colonia...
I read this as mechanical changes as to HOW it works won't change. Just value changes will happen.
 
Does this mean that all of those hopes of greater than 10LY colony starting is thoroughly dashed?

Same @Paul_Crowther , cut&paste from the frontier unlocked discord:

Just to be clear with the Beta, any values including distances are subject to change, which is mainly the point of the Beta. We're aiming to start smaller so we can scale up rather than start big and go "Oh no, we have really overestimated this". So don't worry if it's not ideal right away, just constructively share your feedback and we'll be going through all of it as we review the Beta

I guess range is (kind of) a resource if you think of it that way.

Edit: While I'm at quoting Frontier staff, DBOBE tweeted:

Key thing is we expect to have to make balancing tweaks, but in many ways it isn't a beta in the traditional sense as we are not planning any wipes or reset. Remember - it is first-come-first-served for staking a claim...
 
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So exactly what I talk about since Colonisation announcement. It is better start from 10 Ly and potentially make it higher than start with long distance nad cut it later. Nice.
 
I guess range is (kind of) a resource if you think of it that way.
At a very long stretch, possibly! ;)

I'm also sure it will change in the fullness of time, and tomorrow we will have a better idea if the feature is to be a hard tie-in to BGS / PP (hopefully things will be less obfuscated) or more open-ended.
If tied, the range isn't going to radically change, unless BGS rules change to accommodate this, which could be fun in itself...

As always, patience will bring its own reward, or something!
 
Does this mean that all of those hopes of greater than 10LY colony starting is thoroughly dashed? (as it certainly reads that way)
The 10 ly range sounds to me a lot like they are being cautious with this "quasi-beta" release, testing the waters, seeing how this enormous update works when used by the entire playerbase, to stop a possibly broken feature exploding out of the bubble too far before they can fix and adjust things. I'm quite certain that they will be adjusting the range (and/or providing other mechanisms to extend at a faster pace) once the feature has been sufficiently tested and finetuned so they can be sure it works as intended.
 
The 10 ly range sounds to me a lot like they are being cautious with this "quasi-beta" release, testing the waters, seeing how this enormous update works when used by the entire playerbase, to stop a possibly broken feature exploding out of the bubble too far before they can fix and adjust things. I'm quite certain that they will be adjusting the range (and/or providing other mechanisms to extend at a faster pace) once the feature has been sufficiently tested and finetuned so they can be sure it works as intended.

I am pretty sure it even was said that it i s easier to raise the range than cut them down.
 
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